Enmos
Valued Senior Member
It really does. Could you please describe the state of the tanks when you found the dead fish ? Do you have water plants, scavengers, airpump, etc. ?
One dead goldfish and the nature of suffering
- Thread starter Quantum Quack
- Start date
It really does. Could you please describe the state of the tanks when you found the dead fish ? Do you have water plants, scavengers, airpump, etc. ?
nah it's just a simple 40 litre glass blowl...which i planted some "grass" in. [ can't remember the botanical name but recommended for grazing.]
Keeping only three fish small/medium sized Comets. Now of course there are only two and currently they seem quite well and active. But I haven't fed them for 24 hours and will wait another 48 before I give them any more and then only enough for a feed with in 2 minutes or so.
Trying to experiment with hunger and keeping the fish lean and active in search for food. Hopefully they will start to graze on the plants.
Intend to change 1/3 water every 5 days or so as routine.
The state of the tank was as new I guess is the best way to describe it.
The thing is I was semi-conscious of over feeding them but didn't act on that intuition.
So I wasn;t entirely surprise dwhen I found two nearly dead 2 hours later. I placed them in a quarrantine container as a precaution and one managed to recover. Changed the water in the tank removing any food remains.
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anything else I should do do you think?
I have no budget so I am doing it on the cheap which I am not too happy about.
I have no budget so I am doing it on the cheap which I am not too happy about.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Cool.
So why did you come up with that outlandish theory about why the fish died ?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
What you're doing seems fine.
Maybe you could go to the shop where you bought them and ask how much exactly you should feed them.
"The basic cause of human suffering stems from a quality humans possess, called emotions. Human suffering comes about from desire, greed and lust." - from a wiki forum.
It seems to raise a good question - do all creatures "suffer", or only humans? Do other creatures suffer if they don't know they are, or if they are not even aware that such a thing as suffering exists?
And from a broader point of view, perhaps it is once again the duality thing... Maybe without suffering, we wouldn't be able to recognize when things are going good?
It seems to raise a good question - do all creatures "suffer", or only humans? Do other creatures suffer if they don't know they are, or if they are not even aware that such a thing as suffering exists?
And from a broader point of view, perhaps it is once again the duality thing... Maybe without suffering, we wouldn't be able to recognize when things are going good?
well as I said in the OP I felt the fish died because I over fed them...
The observation of lack of motivation was part of watching them just lie there waiting to die. I made the connection to over feeding [ loss of purpose] and their apparent apathy towards continuing life.
I am not saying that they were apathetic as a fact, but it inspired the idea of using the story as a vehicle to discuss the issue of suffering and the reason for it... in this case suffering gives purpose. That purpose is to find relief from suffering.
you are hungry you eat, you want to buy a house you have to work for it..etc etc... desire and the temporary relief from the suffering that desire creates.
you are hungry you eat, you want to buy a house you have to work for it..etc etc... desire and the temporary relief from the suffering that desire creates.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
That's where you went wrong.. how would you act when you were poisoned ?
You'd slow down as well.. lol
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
actually I have just reread the OP and understand why I have confused... My appologies... I like interesting Ops If I can, makes for more fun...Hmm ok.
Maybe you shouldn't have mentioned the fish then
But to me I simply over fed the fish.. the loss of purpose observation is only an aside and really only speculation. [ That might actually have some merit to it..funniliy enough]
and this is the philosophy forum is it not....
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
actually I have just reread the OP and understand why I have confused... My appologies... I like interesting Ops If I can, makes for more fun...
But to me I simply over fed the fish.. the loss of purpose observation is only an aside and really only speculation. [ That might actually have some merit to it..funniliy enough]
and this is the philosophy forum is it not....
Yea, it's the philosophy forum. But you seemed to base your question on wrongly interpreted observations.
I agree somewhat with post 28 though. Although it's not clear to me why you would call lack of action to a particular end apathetic.
For example: If I don't need food, I don't have to eat.
Nothing apathetic about that.
It's apathetic when you do need food, but don't eat.
yep bombed out on both counts...
It just struck me that gold fish have only one major purpose in life an dthat is to find food and eat.
once they do not need to find food they have no purpose to fulfill therefoe no desire to go on.
They do not have the same nature as us humans who have the ability to self control and self restraint [although sometimes i wonder...ha]
The fish can only follow their instinctive desires [ as far as we can tell ] and when one of those major desires is fullfilled they no longer have the motivation nor the insight to wait until the desire re-emerges as we as humans can.
so "lean and mean" is the strategy from now on. And "lean and mean" is appropriate for humans as well as it allows us to be vigorous and vital and mobile rather than sedantry and half asleep.
But if there are no food supplies available because you've ruined the environment because of the pollution of the over feeding, then the fish won't live for very long will they.
For example: I am sure if you could find the stats you would find that nursing homes for the elderly, mortality rates increase if the inmates are fed too well, the rooms are kept too hot and the TV is switched on day and night.
By keeping the inmates a little lean and mean they live longer and healthier.
By keeping the inmates a little lean and mean they live longer and healthier.
absoloodleBut if there are no food supplies available because you've ruined the environment because of the pollution of the over feeding, then the fish won't live for very long will they.
so by keeping the environment pollution free and restricting the food supply to something more akin to natural then the fish should be more vigourous in their search for food....logical but is it right?
I will no doubt find out soon enough.
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It is always best to ask questions about the proper care and feeding of anything when you buy it or catch it. Without the right information you will not have a good environment for anything to live.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Well.. those are two purposes really. And what about procreation ?
Any living organism's primary goal is to survive, no matter what. Second comes procreation.
Salmon, for example, die in great numbers after procreating. But this is because of exhaustion. They have fulfilled their role in life and can now die, but this is not be mistaken with purpose..
It is an evolutionary advantage (or at least not a disadvantage) to the species as a whole that they now die, it's not a conscious (or even subconscious) lack of desire to live.
If given half a chance the will try to survive, no matter what.
You seem to be talking about depression, which appears to happen in both humans and other animals. It's a different thing though, abnormal brain chemistry cannot be compared with a healthy brain.
Thus it is abnormal behavior to not want to survive, it's an illness.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Erm.. I hope you don't mind if I don't reply to that.
Enmos
Valued Senior Member