Osama Bin Laden is Dead

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

I'm not making the more than one Osama argument. I'm saying the evidence does not support all the assertions

As for why I think Osama could not get better, its because it would be hard for him to get the thrice weekly dialysis, the medications and the critical care required for patients with kidney disease.

I searched the US media and surprise! his death was reported in the NYT!



On CNN:



Even Fox News!



So there were US media sources citing his "death" in Dec 2001

More on his kidney disease from snopes:

All of which like the Osama picture have been debunked. You're the only one who seems to find it all still so valid. He's a very wealthy man Sam, I'm sure a nurse and dialysis machine wasn't too hard to come by he doesn't need to go to a hospital to have dialysis. I mean if he can live in a nice villa with his wives in the suburbs then why not have access to a dialysis machine?

 

[quadraphonics]

Why do you assume I wan't to troll you,

I infer a desire to troll from your persistence in doing exactly that. Occam's Razor tells me to take the simplest explanation, which is that you are going what you want to do, and not somehow accidentally doing something you don't want to do. I make no claim that you have owned up to and admitted this desire consciously.

I am not a troll and I have no motive to prod a certain type of response out of anyone,

"Motive" or not, that's what you go around doing.

from now on I wil be posting just as myself with no agenda other than expressng thoughts and my opinions.

None of which is exclusive of being a bigoted troll, conspiracy theorist, etc.

Im still waiting on the List of conspiracies that I subscribe too.

You'll produce it yourself quickly enough if you keep posting.

 

[S.A.M.]

All of which like the Osama picture have been debunked. You're the only one who seems to find it all still so valid. He's a very wealthy man Sam, I'm sure a nurse and dialysis machine wasn't too hard to come by he doesn't need to go to a hospital to have dialysis.

Okay I missed that. Who debunked them?

I mean if he can live in a nice villa with his wives in the suburbs then why not have access to a dialysis machine?

Well how can I explain it? Its a little hard to carry it around. Was there one in the apartment where he was killed?

 

[quadraphonics]

his death was reported in the NYT!

A guest editorial by someone long known to invent stories in support of conspiracy theories, hardly amounts to a "report" of anything other than the contents of one partisan's worldview.

On CNN:

A report that a politician with a direct stake in the conflict suspects that he might be dead because of kidney disease is just that. It's not a report that Bin Laden is dead. It's a report that Pervez Musharraf suspects as much, without much visible basis.

Even Fox News!

A report of a third-hand rumor of his death is, again, just that.

So there were US media sources citing his "death" in Dec 2001

They were citing rumors of his death, as rumors.

This is different from what is being reported now. Current reports are conveying information from a party (the US government) that claims to have directly killed him, kept the body, and performed conclusive scientific tests to determine identity. None of the previous reports made such claims - they were entirely speculation and rumor. That you apparently can't see the difference only goes to your unreliability as an interpretter of news reportage.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

I infer a desire to troll from your persistence in doing exactly that. Occam's Razor tells me to take the simplest explanation, which is that you are going what you want to do, and not somehow accidentally doing something you don't want to do. I make no claim that you have owned up to and admitted this desire consciously.



"Motive" or not, that's what you go around doing.



None of which is exclusive of being a bigoted troll, conspiracy theorist, etc.



You'll produce it yourself quickly enough if you keep posting.

I assure you I have no intention of trolling you, would you stop being paranoid please.
You will have a hard time showing me to be a conspiracy theorist, I am far from one of those, *Adjusts tin foil hat* Sorry the aliens were watching me.
Stop taking yourself so seriously, if you look for enemies and opponents ofcourse you wil find them, you can find an enemy within a friend if you try hard enough.

peace.

 

[quadraphonics]

Its a little hard to carry it around.

Home dialysis machines much smaller and more portable than those in your picture have been available for a long, long time. They make models that fit inside briefcases.

That said, I'm not aware of it ever being conclusively demonstrated that OBL required some ongoing dialysis regiment in the first place.

 

[quadraphonics]

You will have a hard time showing me to be a conspiracy theorist, I am far from one of those,

While I'll be happy to be proven wrong about that, you've already engaged in an explicit conspiracy theory in this very thread. The part about America being inhabited by sheep that believe in cooked-up fake news, specifically.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Okay I missed that. Who debunked them?



Well how can I explain it? Its a little hard to carry it around. Was there one in the apartment where he was killed?

Don't Lie SAM I have one of those in my back pocket right now.

Salam.

 

[S.A.M.]

Home dialysis machines much smaller and more portable than those in your picture have been available for a long, long time.

In Pakistan? I would be very surprised especially in remote regions in North Pakistan. In fact, I would be surprised if hemodialysis was available everywhere. where it was needed even in urban Pakistan

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Okay I missed that. Who debunked them?



Well how can I explain it? Its a little hard to carry it around. Was there one in the apartment where he was killed?

What you're not living in this century? I know someone who has a dialysis at home because she will need it for the rest of her life and there are models like the one in this picture: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8544358/ns/health-health_care/

But again you fail to show evidence that renal failure persists when you can be treated and taken off dialysis.

As for the debunking? YOU'RE OWN BLOODY REPORT DEBUNKS IT!! Read them yourself. Musharaf who SWORE Bin Laden wasn't in Pakistan when everyone else kept saying he was, said this Musharraf said Pakistan knew bin Laden took two dialysis machines into Afghanistan. "One was specifically for his own personal use," he said,

"I don't know if he has been getting all that treatment in Afghanistan now. And the photographs that have been shown of him on television show him extremely weak. ... I would give the first priority that he is dead and the second priority that he is alive somewhere in Afghanistan."

Only to be followed with "U.S. officials skeptical

In Washington, a senior Bush administration official said Musharraf reached "reasonable conclusion" but warned it is only a guess.

"He is using very reasonable deductive reasoning, (but) we don't know (bin Laden) is dead," said the official, who requested anonymity. "We don't have remains or evidence of his death. So it is a decent and reasonable conclusion -- a good guess but it is a guess."

So you see Sam the report is only reporting that they NEVER BELIEVED HE WAS REALLY DEAD! If you had bothered to read it you would have known that Musharaf already stated Bin Laden was running around with his own damn dialysis machine. But guess what? No one said he had some incurable bout of renal failure that would necessitate dialysis for the rest of his life.

 

[spidergoat]

In Pakistan? I would be very surprised especially in remote regions in North Pakistan. In fact, I would be surprised if hemodialysis was available everywhere. where it was needed even in urban Pakistan

Maybe he prayed it better. Who cares?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Maybe he prayed it better. Who cares?

LOL! And yet she posts an article where you have Musharaf saying Bin Laden had his own dialysis machine. Just goes to show she doesn't even read her own evidence She posts a link to an article that debunks her own statements. Unbelievable.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

While I'll be happy to be proven wrong about that, you've already engaged in an explicit conspiracy theory in this very thread. The part about America being inhabited by sheep that believe in cooked-up fake news, specifically.

Lol that's not a conspiracy theory that's a result of interacting with americans, but I do stress that I do not promote mass generalizations although I do sometimes group people together for the sake of not having to point out exceptions tot he rule. For example I might say "Chinese people like rice" That's not to suggest that many chinese peope might infact hate rice, it is my general understanding that they tend to like it.

Yes many Americans might well be very independant critica thinkers I don't doubt this fact, but still the average joe seems to be slightly Fixated on what FOX news has claimed as fact, I don't find many americans taking in accounts from a variety of news sources. More ike switch on the TV and take whatever the news anchor says as fact without doing indipendant research of their own.

PS I seriously am not trolling you I swear.

 

[quadraphonics]

In Pakistan? I would be very surprised especially in remote regions in North Pakistan. In fact, I would be surprised if hemodialysis was available everywhere. where it was needed even in urban Pakistan

As a matter of availability through Pakistan's public healthcare system to the general Pakistani public, maybe not.

But I see no reason a millionaire like Bin Laden couldn't have obtained one. They only cost about $10k. What's to stop him from having his people obtain one of the free market, and bring it to him?

And, again, it's never been established that he required a regular regimen of dialysis in the first place. That's just more rumor.

 

[SciWriter]

By the way, they lost Bin Laden again; he's in the ocean but they don't know where.

 

[S.A.M.]

Maybe he prayed it better. Who cares?

Just surprising thats all. I will find out, but from what I know, they import all HD units from korea germany and japan, catheters from china and fluid bags from Japan. Even if cost is not a problem [it is prohibitive for the average Pakistani costing around 5000 a session which is probably half of the average monthly salary] it is not possible to import large amounts of medical equipment for years privately without setting off alarms somewhere. Or maybe it is. I don't know much about smuggling. I'm not aware of home dialysis units being available there.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

As a matter of availability through Pakistan's public healthcare system to the general Pakistani public, maybe not.

But I see no reason a millionaire like Bin Laden couldn't have obtained one. They only cost about $10k. What's to stop him from having his people obtain one of the free market, and bring it to him?

And, again, it's never been established that he required a regular regimen of dialysis in the first place. That's just more rumor.

One? The article she links states he brought in to TWO dialysis machines into Afghanistan and ascribes the statement to Musharaf. She's having a laugh can't you tell?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Just surprising thats all. I will find out, but from what I know, they import all HD units from korea germany and japan, catheters from china and fluid bags from Japan. Even if cost is not a problem [it is prohibitive for the average Pakistani costing around 5000 a session which is probably half of the average monthly salary] it is not possible to import large amounts of medical equipment for years privately without setting off alarms somewhere. Or maybe it is. I don't know much about smuggling. I'm not aware of home dialysis units being available there.

Don't you even bother reading your own links? They say he had two of them with him when he entered Afghanistan. So in truth you shouldn't be 'surprised' at all! Just like it shouldn't surprise you that your own bloody article said the US never believed he was dead and said Musharaf was 'guessing'.

 

[quadraphonics]

Lol that's not a conspiracy theory that's a result of interacting with americans,

It's a conspriacy theory no matter how you claim to have come by it.

but I do stress that I do not promote mass generalizations although I do sometimes group people together for the sake of not having to point out exceptions tot he rule.

Ah, so "Americans are gullible sheep" wasn't an offensive generalization, because you only meant "the predominant national character of America is gullible sheep, although there are some individual exceptions."

Totally not offensive at all!

For example I might say "Chinese people like rice" That's not to suggest that many chinese peope might infact hate rice, it is my general understanding that they tend to like it.

And that's a different beast than saying "Americans are dumb animals." One of those statements is a vanilla generality with pretty clear support. The other is an expression of national animus betraying nasty bigotry.

Yes many Americans might well be very independant critica thinkers I don't doubt this fact, but still the average joe seems to be slightly Fixated on what FOX news has claimed as fact, I don't find many americans taking in accounts from a variety of news sources. More ike switch on the TV and take whatever the news anchor says as fact without doing indipendant research of their own.

It's the implication that Americans are any worse about such than any other nationality, that is unfounded and offensive.

Let's face it: you have not undertaken the sort of wide-ranging research and experience that would be required to characterize the predominant attitudes towards media, and its relation to worldview and inference, of America as a whole. Nor any other country, likely. And you never will. So when you issue such insults, all you're trafficking in is bigotry and prejudice.

 

[EmptyForceOfChi]

By the way, they lost Bin Laden again; he's in the ocean but they don't know where.

Did Zombie Bin laden make another run for it?, that's it lets call in the Ghost Busters.