Our Karma Nature

How can so many people actually believe in having past lives, especially when there is no proof of ever having past life. Anyways if you talk in the "one universe wise point of view" disregarding theories of other suposedly existing universes. They are implying that that some human beings are born without a past life. More people are born then people die a day. There is no equilibrium.

Im going off subject this whole past life karma. How in the world can you say that karma is inherited? Geneticists would laugh at that.

"The more self-aware the less conflict with our Karma, a happier existence follows quite naturally."
Ummm its quite a duh to me if you do whatever you think is GOOD all the time for the sake of your next life BUT whats good anyways good is just a point of view. Next life? Why doesnt man kind just settle down with one life and just die without worrying about not being able to live again. How do you know Karma wasnt something invented to get ignorant people to be very productive? Especially hundreds of years ago when it was first thought up by people who didnt know we are runned by our electric impulses. So it must have been karma when the 2 planes hit the twin towers in New york according to your belief. So it must have been karma that made the thousands and thousands of people living there to get paranoy of sunny blue skies.

Read up on your psychology and neuroscience the ones with the true believer syndrome: Know thyself. Those people became paranoy to the thing that could endanger there survival they associated the beautiful day with the horrible death of many of our own species. Many others developed the fear of riding on planes. It wasnt karma my friend.
 
wow I didn't expect this thread to resurface after what is it....hmmmm....1.5 years..ha..... must be Karma.... :p
 
Ok.. primero que todo tienes que saber que lo de las torres gemelas.. fue un Karma Colectivo.

Existen 3 tipos de Karma:

Karma Colectivo
Karma Individual
Karma Personal

Si tienes un poco más de interés.. puedes investigar qué es cada uno.. no crees? ;)

Atte.

Kamira



astrocreep said:
How can so many people actually believe in having past lives, especially when there is no proof of ever having past life. Anyways if you talk in the "one universe wise point of view" disregarding theories of other suposedly existing universes. They are implying that that some human beings are born without a past life. More people are born then people die a day. There is no equilibrium.

Im going off subject this whole past life karma. How in the world can you say that karma is inherited? Geneticists would laugh at that.

"The more self-aware the less conflict with our Karma, a happier existence follows quite naturally."
Ummm its quite a duh to me if you do whatever you think is GOOD all the time for the sake of your next life BUT whats good anyways good is just a point of view. Next life? Why doesnt man kind just settle down with one life and just die without worrying about not being able to live again. How do you know Karma wasnt something invented to get ignorant people to be very productive? Especially hundreds of years ago when it was first thought up by people who didnt know we are runned by our electric impulses. So it must have been karma when the 2 planes hit the twin towers in New york according to your belief. So it must have been karma that made the thousands and thousands of people living there to get paranoy of sunny blue skies.

Read up on your psychology and neuroscience the ones with the true believer syndrome: Know thyself. Those people became paranoy to the thing that could endanger there survival they associated the beautiful day with the horrible death of many of our own species. Many others developed the fear of riding on planes. It wasnt karma my friend.
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Hola Snakker:

Existe el error que cometen algunas personas.. en pensar de que TODO es Karma, pienso que en el primer ejemplo que pusistes, exageras un poco al referirte al Karma.

Te recomiendo que antes de hablar tanto del Karma, te informes un poco más al respecto, quizás las fuentes de información que tienes ahora no son las más apropiadas. Ah.. y busquen otro argumento que no sea el de que no hay pruebas científicas de la existencia del Karma.

Atte.

Kamira

snakker said:
Lets use okham's razor... Anyone know that one?

ok it states that whenever there are two equally predictable hypothesis, then you must choose the simplest and most obvious one, always.

Lets look at a model scenario to show this in action...

A man goes in the street, he sees a woman looking at a mcdonalds post and he gets run over by a car driven by a man.

Karma hypothesis: The man used to be a nazi in his past life and he threw a baby at a wall to death. So by some miracle, he was given life again in this world, forgetting completely all his sins, as he has a new life, a new brain etc, and he crossed the street, so the woman was put there to make him die.

Chaos hypothesis: The man is a result of the sexual intercourse of his parents, the only traits he acquires is the pressure to like women and genetic traits. He sees a woman, he is aroused. The woman is hunngry and is looking at mcdonalds because her stomache is upset. The man, completely baffled by her natural beauty, ignores the street. A man is driving the car and sees the woman too. The crash takes place. By chance, nothing special. Plus, it happens all the time, that's why it's called an "accident".

And now for the verdict, using Okham's razor, we see that the second is much more probable, and is in fact simpler than the first, so we take it.

Conclusion, Karma is just making things more complicated than they already are, and in fact does not help understand anything in life, this means that it may have been reasonable for the people who invented it since they were primitive, but it definately is not desirable for much more evolved and rational people like ourselves. The second hypothesis would definately be the answer, the first hypothesis has almost no logic to it, since the person must suffer for his sins, but instead is simply killed while enjoying one of lifes greates views (almost anyways ;)).
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Well, it's not just the fact that karma is completely circumstantially a judgement made by "faith" or rather the ignorance of the true cause of things. The attack on the twin towers on september eleventh, 2001, was NOT collective Karma. If you call yourself a person of heart and faith, how can you so cynically justify the death of thousands of innocent civilians in an act of terror. Organized crime was the true cause of the september attacks, what those people thought or what their "past lives" which im sure dont exist, have nothing to do with the suicidal attack made by a small group of fanatic muslim terrorists. The attack was planned because of wars, because of ideals, etc. that have spawned completely independantly from the people inside the buildings. If you think otherwise, then why do you think they are called "innocent"? You obviously cannot assume that these people were in fact responsible for their own murder??? Another fault in karma ideology, and another point why atheism is the new cult people should be joining. RELIGION was the MAIN cause of the terrorist attempt, a very irrational act of rage and uncivilized hatred.

Moreover, my "defence" against karma is not as relevant as your own. how can YOU defend such an irrational idea?! You are the one that should try and prove Karma right, because i am definately not a believer... My defence also states: how could the first person to exist have a karma?? He or she had no prior "life". Come on, read what I say before you talk about my "defence" this is obviously more of an "offense" in the context of this debate, and further "proves" how karma, if I am even imagining for a split-second that it could be possible, is completely inconsistent and wrong. A completely flawed hypothesis, better yet, a mythological fable, like religion, that justifies the killing of many innocent civilians.
 
A kamira: pareces saber mucho sobre el karma, pero aparentemente no sabes mucho sobre las torres gemelas, historia, y politica. Los terroristas que atacaron a las torres gemelas no la atacaron porque una fuerza milagrosa hindu los mando a matar a gente merecedora de castigos, sino que fueron enviados como martires representando una religion aun mas absurda. Todo referente a lo mistico, lo sobrenatural, etc, es simplemente un comportamiento humano no racional que tiene que ver mucho mas con los sentimientos (quimicos y corriente electrica, por cierto) y no tiene absolutamente nada que ver con almas etc.

Te pongo un ejemplo claro y conciso, pones dos personas, una religiosa y otra no, cual es la diferencia? Los dos son lo mismo, ninguno tiene alma. Una persona, para tener una razon de existir, no tiene que ser una razon milagrosa o maravillosa, ni necesita tener una razon de ser. El problema verdadero llace en nuestra neurosis social, la cual esta interrelacionada con logoterapia. La busqueda eterna para respuestas a preguntas que no tienen respuesta. No hay ninguna razon por la que existimos, ni somos tan especiales o eligidos, simplemente somos tan narcisisticos que no solo hicimos dios en nuestro imagen, sino que hicimos todo un conjunto de tonterias espirituales que supuestamente nos afectan en nuestras vidas. Todo para sentirnos mas especiales.
 
Hola!

Pues estoy de acuerdo contigo en lo que dices que ellos obviamente no fueron con la misión de matar a una gente merecedora de castigo...

De hecho pensar que el Karma es solo castigo.. me parece algo un poco absurdo, el Karma es algo tan pero tan amplio q relacionarlo con el castigo es algo que la mayoría de la gent hace por ignorancia del tema más que todo.

No puedo creer que afirmes que nadie tiene alma.. o seaa. jjaja.. insinúas que todos somos unos robots y que estamos aquí por casualidad.. y q al morir todo se acaba.

Sobre el ejemplo que distes sobre una persona que tiene religión y otra que no.. eso entra en el "Libre albedrío", y también entraría aquí.. el tema de Religiones Comparadas, ya que dependiendo de la cultura e historia de algunos países.. es por eso que tienen religiones distintas.. pero si estudias detenidamente cada una de sus enseñanzas.. encontrarás que muchas veces transmiten el mismo mensaje pero con otras palabras.

Por mi parte, estoy d acuerdo en algunas cosas con la ciencia, ya que explican muy bien los fenómenos que ocurren.. pero el principal error que cometen es pensar que no existe aquello que no pueden probar.. simplemente porque aún no lo descubren.

Saludos,

Kamira
 
TheERK said:
You're joking, right?

If somebody introduces a concept that has no evidence, and I criticize the rambling about it, it's not up to me to provide evidence that it doesn't exist. I'm not making the claim.
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What if I told you that what you consider rambling is part of the process of Karma?

Karma is about seeing relationships and being aware of, for lack of a better term, signs. A person like yourself, who wants direct and exact answers now, has no patience to see relationships or signs. You can't be bothered unless someone gives you what you want NOW!

Karma is about spacing out while listening to rambling, and suddenly seeing a relationship between things. You can never tell where it will come from. I have had homeless people tell me something that related to something about my life. If I was focused on where I was going and what I wanted, I would not have noticed the relationship.

You have nowhere to go except death. There is no reason to rush towards anythings. Stop demanding answers now for things. Relax and watch and listen to what goes on around you. After awhile, you will begin to notice things happening that are impossible to your rational mind. Then it is up to you to decide if you are willing to accept reality, or if you deny reality and head back to the safety of your rational mind.
 
...

I'm so tired of hearing weak statements that serve in no way to prove karma. Are you implying that your only defense, which in fact you have to have in this debate, is that I should wait. How about not even interfering with the debate and waste everyone's time? An example of how weak this defense is: everyone has faith sooner or later, most when they die. That would mean Id have to wait till I die to know the answer. WOOHOO. When current ceases to go through my brain I will not be able to have a judgement, I won't have faith. In fact, I won't have faith even if I am reincarnated or even If I see God himself. If i do see him, Ill know and there won't be any faith now will there?

Part two, free will, libre albedrio. Como vas a suponer que hay libre albedrio si hay karma? Pense q el Karma decide nuestro fin. Y si hay un dios omnipotente no puede haber libre albedrio.

del diccionario:

adj. omnipotent all-powerful
adj. omniscient all-knowing

If an omniscient and omnipotent god made the universe, we cannot have free will, not even if he gave us this, and if god cannot give us free will, he is not omnipotent, for there is something he cannot do, therefore he is null. Lets fundamentalize this free will stuff. God made time, made nature, made everything. So, if he made us with free will, and he is omniscient, he should already know what we will do. But if he knows, we dont have the power to change our fate, completely ridiculous, and lacks any logic. Its like asking if god can make a rock he cannot lift.
 
Karma is a law for sheep. We should not wonder that the shepherds advocate it. It is a law for the passive, for those who will not disturb the status quo, who will accept whatever evil is done as "natural" and inevitable. Karma is a law for slaves, for the vanquished.
 
Happeh said:
What if I told you that what you consider rambling is part of the process of Karma?

Karma is about seeing relationships and being aware of, for lack of a better term, signs. A person like yourself, who wants direct and exact answers now, has no patience to see relationships or signs. You can't be bothered unless someone gives you what you want NOW!

Karma is about spacing out while listening to rambling, and suddenly seeing a relationship between things. You can never tell where it will come from. I have had homeless people tell me something that related to something about my life. If I was focused on where I was going and what I wanted, I would not have noticed the relationship.

You have nowhere to go except death. There is no reason to rush towards anythings. Stop demanding answers now for things. Relax and watch and listen to what goes on around you. After awhile, you will begin to notice things happening that are impossible to your rational mind. Then it is up to you to decide if you are willing to accept reality, or if you deny reality and head back to the safety of your rational mind.
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I cant say i especially believe in karma but your attitude makes alot of sense, its so easy to get bogged down in 2nd hand empiricalism and completely miss the answers to your questions that are right there in front of you.
 
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