Overall Message of Christianity?

[Gomer]

Frankly i find it sickening that anyone can put such little value on their own life. I've noticed this a lot on these forums and find it an absolute disgrace people value themselves as little as they do

I don't disvalue this life at all, but I don't love worldly things like you guys. I'm not searching for meaning in life either. The reason you don't want to be a Christian is because you don't want to fight your sin. You like it and don't see anything wrong with it.

And I'm not afraid to die like you guys. By no means will I commit suicide. I'd like to help lead others to the Lord while I'm here.

I may not value this life, but I do value my soul more than all of you, but your just the opposite because you don't have an eternal perspective.

 

[SnakeLord]

I don't disvalue this life at all, but I don't love worldly things like you guys.

Surely God put those things here to be loved and appreciated? If not what's the point in him putting them here? Just to be ignored? Man i can sit out in a field all day long watching the wind rustle through the trees, watching birds flitter among the golden buttercups and kids playing with pure innocence under a warm and glorious sun. You instead give the love to something unseen, unrpoven. To me this is putting lack of value on life. How do you know when you get your eternal life you'll ever see a sunset over a sandy beach ever again? How do you know you'll be able to have kids and nurture them and love them as individuals instead of as a 'big package of god'?

If i were a religious man like you i'd love everything simply because God had created it. I'd even love watching millions of people die knowing my one true love, (God), had been the inspiration for it happening. I'd love everything as if i'd seen it for the very first time in my life.

I'm not searching for meaning in life either

Of course you are. If you weren't you wouldn't be human and you wouldn't be religious.

The reason you don't want to be a Christian is because you don't want to fight your sin

Sounds to me like only Christians want to rid themselves of sin? Much that it's a great advertising campaign i wouldn't say it belonged exclusively to Christians. In my opinion that's an extremely naive attitude to have.

As for sin... Sure i fight it. The other day i called my wifes sister a retarded fuck bubble. I feel real guilty about it, and my wife was a bit upset with me. I have learnt to live with my sin and work out why i sinned, and how to prevent sin. The answer to that is not as simple as believing some all powerful being will forgive me if i sing kumbaya. It's a lot harder to understand and accept responsibility for your actions than to get forgiven by an invisible bystander.

And I'm not afraid to die like you guys.

This isn't about being afraid to die... but as far as im concerned if i have an eternity in heaven some delay in getting there is no big deal. As such i like to make the most of my time here. I'm not quite ready to be separated from my daughter, wife or friends. I might meet up with them later- (notice the word 'might'), or i might not... but without being presumptuous enough to just assume i will, i like to keep my bases covered. If i dont at least i got to spend time with them during my mortal phase and if i do i still had a nice time with them during my mortal phase. Who's to say some of them might be sent to hell for bad deeds so i'd never get the chance to see them once we're all dead or vice versa? As such i'd like to spend some time with them during my mortal phase and have no wish to die quite yet.

By no means will I commit suicide. I'd like to help lead others to the Lord while I'm here.

What if they commit suicide because of your never ending attempts at making them believe as you do? Who's to blame for that? You or them?

I may not value this life

Strange... your very first sentence was:

I don't disvalue this life at all

Make up your mind. We spoke in another thread about denial. It has relevance here perhaps.

but I do value my soul more than all of you

I value my soul- which i opinionate as my being. My soul is inside me- learning as i learn, growing as i grow, loving as i love. If you cannot value your own being, how can you claim to value the spiritual essence of your own being?

but your just the opposite because you don't have an eternal perspective.

Who's to say i don;t have an eternal perspective? I sure do i'll have you know..

My thoughts are thus: If we are to live for eternity after this life i'd rather opt out. I'm sure after 50 million years anything that can be said has been said, anything that can be done has been done. It would become so monotonous and boring that it wouldn't be worth undertaking in the first place. The very reason we have goal, purpose and function in this life is because we all know it will end at some stage. If there is to be no end what's the point in doing anything? I'm sure it can wait until next millennium. Have you really ever sat down and considered the vastness of the word 'eternal'? If you really consider it does it sound like such a wonderful thing?

 

[Gomer]

Of course I've considered eternity (with God) and that's why I look forward to it so much. I don't expect you to understand that, but if you truely understood eternity you would put your trust in a God that loves you. Your not doing him a favor or I, but your the only one that can recieve this gift.

I guess what I mean to say is that I valur my soul over my body and I don't want my soul to learn from my body which is sinful by nature. Again your debating words.

I'm not searching bro, I've found that all I want to do is live for our God and praise him. If your not searching what have you found, or are you searching?

 

[Persol]

Originally posted by Gomer
Of course I've considered eternity (with God) and that's why I look forward to it so much.
I'd personally be content to spend eternity with the rest of the people I've spent it with so far. Even if a soul is shown to exist, it could be a 'natural' thing. There seems to be no reason to rely on a God to have a positive effect on your soul.

 

[SnakeLord]

Of course I've considered eternity (with God) and that's why I look forward to it so much.

Ok, im obviously not thinking along the 'correct' path. Tell me what you do with eternal life....

I don't expect you to understand that, but if you truely understood eternity you would put your trust in a God that loves you.

Eternity= forever/never ending/endless. I understand it just fine, however assuming that only someone who trusts gods love understands what eternal means is very ignorant. I sincerely hope you do get eternal life. We'll debate the issue once you've been living it for 100 million years.

Your not doing him a favor or I, but your the only one that can recieve this gift.

By getting eternal life he wouldn't be doing me a favour because i dont want it. Why must we ask for more than 80 years or so? I hate to be the person to break it to you but we die. Shit happens. You said you weren't scared of death but to me the need to want more life is nothing more than a fear of your impending death. If you weren't scared of it you wouldnt need or want more.

I guess what I mean to say is that I valur my soul over my body and I don't want my soul to learn from my body which is sinful by nature.

If we're bold enough to just assume we have a 'soul' we must consider it possible that it learns from our physical actions. The Sumerians believed in Ka, or Wathan which was a persons soul. It was above the head like a globe of energy. When a person died the sould would separate from the physical being. If it had achieved a certain state of being it would float off into the equivalent of heaven if not it would float about in limbo. Reincarnation was when a wandering soul would attach itself to a newborn child. The souls became inter-mingled giving the person knowledge of a previous existence. I much prefer that ideal because it acknowledges and promotes the state of mortal being. Your ideal states there's no reason to achieve anything as a human, 'cause it's sinful. Instead do nothing with this life and just wait for eternal life. Many beliefs include souls, but not many seem to degrade human life to such a degree whereby you become a worthless zombie awaiting rebirth. Personally i find it sinful you would show such disregard to the mortal life god has given you.

I'm not searching bro

We're not brothers.

I've found that all I want to do is live for our God and praise him.

That's fine... You have total freedom to do that.. And please, refer to him as 'your' god, not our. He's nothing to do with me as far as my belief goes. You should respect that, as does he apparently.

The vikings believed in their god... They believed they were all going to Valhalla for eternal life. Now you, with the power of having total truth, tell me this: Are the vikings either:

A) In Valhalla
B) In christian heaven
C) In hell 'cause they didn't know who the christian god was
D) Nowhere, just dead.

You'll know the answer to this, cause you know the truth, so please answer it to stem my urgent curiosity.

If your not searching what have you found, or are you searching

Well i search for answers to questions all the time. That's not because i need eternal life, thats not because i feel glory for anything or anyone. It's merely a pasttime of my mortal life. If doing anything with my mortal life is a sin- sue me.

 

[Gomer]

"A sound explanation may exist for the explosive birth of our Universe; but if it does, science cannot find out what the explanation is. The scientist's pursuit of the past ends in the moment of creation. This is an exceedingly strange development, unexpected by all but the theologians. They have always accepted the word of the Bible: In the beginning God created heaven and earth... At this moment it seems as though science will never be able to raise the curtain on the mystery of creation. For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." -- Robert Jastrow

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by Gomer
"This is an exceedingly strange development, unexpected by all but the theologians. They have always accepted the word of the Bible: In the beginning God created heaven and earth...


For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream.

He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." -- Robert Jastrow

This is utter tripe. How is that anything more than weak propaganda? Is there a "faulty logic" expert in the house? I'm not that great at remembering all the labels but it smells like verbicide to me. The claims above are the lowest form of propaganda, designed to indoctrinate you through words that are apparently bigger than you might understand.. depending on who YOU are. You would use the words of this man to represent you?

I should ask.. do you call that logic? If so, you have a lot to learn about logic.

 

[Gomer]

He Wes, I feel sorry for you, I hope you figure out the meaning in life before you die. Sorry to hear you struggle with that. I'll check every once in a while to see if you've found the truth yet bro. Good luck.

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by Gomer
He Wes, I feel sorry for you, I hope you figure out the meaning in life before you die. Sorry to hear you struggle with that. I'll check every once in a while to see if you've found the truth yet bro. Good luck.

Thanks for the pity I guess, but it's misplaced. It's strange that separated by such a reasonable distance, we're but a sad man in the other's eyes... yet we each think ourselves happy and superior to the other position. If there were no merit to logic it would be a juxtaposition.

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by Gomer
He Wes, I feel sorry for you

Then how would you save me from your cultish presumptuous ignorance?

Originally posted by Gomer

I hope you figure out the meaning in life before you die.

You are so obviously lacking in comprehension regarding this topic and yet feel such comfort talking down to me. I can only take that as some form of arrested development whereby the emotional need to feel "right" about your basic assumptions outweighs your somewhat limited capacity to dilineate a rational argument from a cult's propaganda. Maybe it's just what your pappy told you.. ahyuck.

Originally posted by Gomer

Sorry to hear you struggle with that.

Struggle with what? How to derive the angle at which I have to strike your skull such that it frees your circular thought pattern from it's decaying orbit around impending demensia? brother, you don't know anything. your cult is a lie.

Originally posted by Gomer

I'll check every once in a while to see if you've found the truth yet bro.

How do you think it is that you'll be able to tell. I don't recall "being in a cult" as a qualification for advanced skills regarding the discernment of truth.. maybe I got the syllabis from last semester. Damnit.

Originally posted by Gomer

Good luck.

I'd say thanks if I thought you had the slightest clue as to the "what" to which you're wishing me good luck.

 

[SnakeLord]

Lol Gomer, you sure do provide entertainment to us simpletons.

I noticed you left the exact same 'quick retreat' post on another thread.

Did you notice:

A) You have failed to answer any direct or indirect question to you.
B) Your whole argument in this thread boils down to the most pathetic ans self righteous quotes i have heard in a long time
C) Faced with the obviously extreme task of proving anything you do say, providing any substance to explain plausability, or simply making a good standpoint from which to proceed you simply do this:

Gomer: "I believe in this, <belief goes here>, it is fact whether you like it or not..... bah fuck this im gonna leave cause i cant answer your questions. But you're still wrong and im right.... I know im right cause some dood said so in last months issue of the watchtower. Now i better leave before someone notices i haven't managed to answer anything or provide anything."

Good on you, your very existence benefits mankind in ways my simple human tongue cannot explain. You must be one of Gods greatest creations.

 

[TheVisitor]

For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." -- Robert Jastrow

{{{{{{{{{{{ }}}}}}}}}}}}}

You go....! Gomer.

You got them on the run now, both these guys are running out of excuses not to believe, they've been slapped upside the face with the truth more times than Bill Murrey in "Groundhog Day"

Still they remain more steadfast and stubbornly materialistic than a gang of teen-age girls in a shoping mall.

You're probably wasting your breath, but ..., "All things are possible" - to them that believe, that is.......and there-in lies the catch.

 

[MooseKnuckle]

TheVisitor-

You straight up scare me

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by TheVisitor
For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." -- Robert Jastrow

{{{{{{{{{{{ }}}}}}}}}}}}}

You go....! Gomer.

You got them on the run now, both these guys are running out of excuses not to believe, they've been slapped upside the face with the truth more times than Bill Murrey in "Groundhog Day"

That quote is the weakest piece of shit going. Is that the best shit you idiots have to offer? OMFG. It is nothing but unfounded cultish dogma. I cannot understand how your brains so clearly betray you, when that's really the only thing you have that is worth anything. In your case, I guess it would have to got out and FIND a brain, then see what it's worth... you know what... I'm wrong.

I got it all wrong. It's not your brain that sucks. It's YOU. You have betrayed your brain. It once offered you the potential to understand the world in which you live, but your parents trained you otherwise. Your betrayal came when you came of age and never questioned what you learned. You owed it to yourself to open your mind to all possibility, but you refuse to take off your blinders. Have fun wallowing in your stinking pit of ingnorant fear and cultish dogma.

You damn well know that no one is "on the run" but you're responsible for ensuring that your cult members feel justified in their cultish claims and culstish feelings, so you feel compelled to pipe in with your empty jeers. It's okay, I forgive you.

Originally posted by TheVisitor

Still they remain more steadfast and stubbornly materialistic than a gang of teen-age girls in a shoping mall.

You are a child. A shameful child.

Originally posted by TheVisitor

You're probably wasting your breath, but ..., "All things are possible" - to them that believe, that is.......and there-in lies the catch.

You've apparently been wasting your breath for a long time. You are a sick bitch.

 

[TheVisitor]

Ah, you liked it, I can tell.........

"Thank, you.....thankyouverymuch".....

 

[wesmorris]

Originally posted by TheVisitor
Ah, you liked it, I can tell.........

"Thank, you.....thankyouverymuch".....

NO, but THIS I like, holy shit.. you have a personality. I'm impressed. Just my kind of humor too. Thank YOU, very much. It's nice to know you have a lighter side. You should let it out more.

 

[SnakeLord]

"For the theist who has lived by his faith in the power of god, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of scientists who have been sitting there for centuries." ----- Snake.

Do i have you on the run now? Merely cause a person comes up with such obvious tripe doesn't mean they're even close to the truth. It would appear in the style the above is written this Jastrow bloke is just another self righteous 'lost cause' that deems himself right above all others without proof, without evidence. I hate to say it but Visitor you seem to fall for anything you read without even so much of a question or search for answers.

You know the truth and have found your answer. do we agree? You know the facts concerning everything?

Knowing you're right and have found the truth really does show your following quote as worthless:

""All things are possible" - to them that believe" <---- To you nothing more is possible, you've found your answer. As such you'll never be able to acquire more knowledge because your brain has already made up it's mind. Who learns more in life.... a man willing to look at all sides or a man who thinks he's already solved the puzzle?

You go....! Gomer.

You got them on the run now, both these guys are running out of excuses not to believe

Actually if you are not blind have a look through this thread. It is in fact Gomer who has done the runner. As for excuses not to believe..... Man all you have is a badly translated book. That doesn't count as anything, and should certainly not put you in such a state whereby everyone else is wrong but you.

Do me favour, seeings as you're all wise and all knowing-- look back through the thread and answer any of my questions on Gomers behalf please. He couldn't manage it, lets see if you can.

 

[TheVisitor]

I went back as snakelord asked, and I found truth in many of the posts from each of you.

Gomer said;
"The Holy Spirit working in my life is enough for me to believe, and I have seen a glimpse of what God is like, and I love it."

Thats true, I never said I know everything....but we all here really just get a glimpse of God. The scritures call it "the earnest", thats like a down payment. But even a glimpse of something real, and you'll never forget it....you can run, and you can hide, but you'll never get away from it....I've tried. If you know it was real, He is real, and looking after you, you'll try to find what pleases Him, and line your life up to it.


Snakelord said this:
"Man I can sit out in a field all day long watching the wind rustle through the trees, watching birds flitter among the golden buttercups and kids playing with pure innocence under a warm and glorious sun"

This is God, he's in everything around you, and can be seen in things like these especially......birds singing in the morning...happy for the break of day, little children laughing and playing, you can see Him in nature, in the country when you get away from the dark cloud of sin that "hangs" over the cities like a fog. Thats when He sometimes speaks to you..."in a still, small voice".

One Raven said:
"All other religions (older and newer) are crap, even though Christianity was based on these religions in an effort to build a religion that will appeal to the masses and keep the power within the Roman empire through the shameless process of blatant self-serving syncretism"

True. I can see a resentment in her towards the established religions that call themselves "Christian". GOOD, that's a very good sign. Because to believe their false doctrine and creeds mixed with what they preach from the bibles truth, would be falling for lies, and God's elect can't be deceived. (I won't paste the scripture...run a search) He gives them an internal sense to warn them when in danger, it's like a little buzzer that goes off when someone is mis-quoteing the Word - because it's the source of food for your soul. But it won't feed you if it's been contaminated by man. A demoninator in mathimatics is used to describe fractions, fractions of a whole. Each of the "Nominal" churches have some truth, but also reject the Word as a whole, and this is Christ. These organized churches persecute the real spiritual christians and always have, sometimes to their death.
Who appeared to have more "friuts of the spirit" Jesus - binding cords together and chasing the money-changers out of the temple in a fit of rage, or the kindly old priests, who kiss the babies,and say nice things over the grave of your loved ones, ect....Thats not it....
She's got a right to be angry, I was too as I found out these things.

And wessmorris:
It's nice to know you have a lighter side. You should let it out more.
I apreciate your sense of humor also, and I do get a little "stiff" at times...sorry.

 

[TruthSeeker]

TheVisitor,

You got them on the run now, both these guys are running out of excuses not to believe, they've been slapped upside the face with the truth more times than Bill Murrey in "Groundhog Day"

Weird... I saw thos movie about 2 days ago and I was thinking about that...

 

[ktudor]

God is genderless. We just put the male pronoun on Him because the word "God" is male.
After death, the curse of Eve is gone. She no longer must listen to the patriarch's councel and experience birth pains.