Pizzagate & the American Right Wing

[iceaura]

Talking to me?

Has it ever occurred to either of you two that maybe you are in a cult too? Just as they see some kind of liberal conspiracy in everything, you see apparently racism and sexism in everything.

Is racism and sexism a conspiracy theory now? Something you think isn't really there?

Allow me to repeat a research established, statistical fact from the link above:

Studying the 2016 election, the political scientist Philip Klinkner found that the most predictive question for understanding whether a voter favored Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump was “Is Barack Obama a Muslim?”

Do you have any explanation for that which does not involve near-universal racism among Trump voters, the existence of which is the best available predictor of their vote?

I happen to believe that much of the alt-right are simply trolls that get off on triggering you.

Even though the alt-right I've been referring to as racist are not here, not trolling, and not "triggering" me - in fact, paying no attention whatsoever to me, and showing no indication of awareness of my existence.

 

[iceaura]

There is a lot of evidence that DC Progressive are every bit as deranged as their Roman counterparts 2000 years ago. At least in terms of their artistic choice and small minded fetish behaviors

Why are you focused on a couple of DNC establishment honchos (you call them "Progressives", who knows why) when the GOP establishment is so much more target rich in this area?

 

[Michael]

Why are you focused on a couple of DNC establishment honchos (you call them "Progressives", who knows why) when the GOP establishment is so much more target rich in this area?

Most of the GOP establishment is progressive and on the left. They probably have similar tastes in art as ther fellow DC buddies.

As long as actual children are not harmed, and hopefully these people never have children of their own, then I personally do not care what someone finds aesthetically pleasing. Pig blood, sperm and shit mixed into a broth and called a spirit soup? Okay, sounds puerile and base to be me. They can have at it. Write with it, drink it, both - I could care less. A decapitated man hung from the ceiling or a portrait of little girls in a shower with sore red-spanked arses lined against a wall like rape victims. Again, most people (from around the world) would find these images to be base, tasteless, drivel. Sick to say the least.

But hey, this is DC.

I wouldn't doubt if most of the GOP establishment hang out in the same art galleries as those in the other corrupt private political gang: the DEM. Yeah, big shocker, DemoCrips and Rethuglicans are puerile thugs and their tastelessness in art reflect as much.


Using fake news, they puked up fake WMD and led a functionally illiterate republic into a fake war while our fake fiat money bails them out and pays for their fake art.

Priceless - maybe they ARE the art.... Ha!

Apparently someone working for the DNC leaked the podestra emails that started pizza gate ... why? Because he (they or she) was pissed off at how Bernie Sanders was treated by a fake political party/ the DNC. Yes, so here we have some more fake news to go along with a fake hack by pretend Russians. If anything good comes out of this pizza gate, it'll be that Trump is denied the electoral vote by some fake electors. Nothing could be better huh? What better than to undermine the very institutions that prop up all this fake bullshit ..... don't think? Then we end this farce, break into smaller more manageable States - some of which might actually become, in time, real nations.



In the meantime, on with the fake new, fake pizza and fake politics so we can all fain fake outrage.... hahahaha, except for me. I find the whole thing quite hilarious

 

[iceaura]

Most of the GOP establishment is progressive and on the left.

Uh, right, we have a New Deal hating, corporate capitalist, market-based militarized, racist and sexist and authoritarian and fascistic "Left" and "Progressive" category in Michaelworld. I forgot.

I've never been able to figure out who in government (anybody's government) isn't Left and Progressive, in that world. But I digress:

So why not feature them, in your disparagements, since they are are in power at the moment and (one can't help but notice) a degree or so more corrupt and disgusting than the other kind of corporate capitalist market based "Left" and "Progressive" crowd in the DNC. A much more target rich environment. Odd you always overlook it.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Talking to me?

I was talking to Tiassa primarily.

Is racism and sexism a conspiracy theory now? Something you think isn't really there?

It is either all there or not with you? Gradients are impossible for you to understand? Racism and sexism are real, they just are not the main factors in the rise of Trump, nor are they even close to important factors in Pizzagate.

Allow me to repeat a research established, statistical fact from the link above:
Do you have any explanation for that which does not involve near-universal racism among Trump voters, the existence of which is the best available predictor of their vote?

Uneducated whites does not equal racist, as I explained many times before the labor class is desperate for economic improvements and see in trump their salvation. We have been over this too many times now and I see no reason to continue and argument that goes nowhere.

Even though the alt-right I've been referring to as racist are not here, not trolling, and not "triggering" me - in fact, paying no attention whatsoever to me, and showing no indication of awareness of my existence.

The alt-right trigger the news that you click on.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[Syne]

It's the journalist's job, their actual freaking job, to not do that. Or at least it was, until the rise of Limbaugh and Fox and so forth. They are not supposed to be "unwitting" in their disseminations. They don't get a pass for fake news - at a minimum, they are lying about having checked it out simply by repeating it as journalists.

Obviously even very good journalists will make mistakes, get fooled, etc. If the journalist is honest, they will be rare, and more or less randomly distributed on the ideological or political spectrum. An honest and competent journalist won't get fooled twice by the same people in the same way with the same bias, for example. (Fox News reported, as news, on more than one James O'Keefe video - the Acorn fraud, the Shirley Sherrod fraud, and others)

What we have instead, in the rightwing corporate dominated media right now, is a deliberate policy of lack of due diligence - repeating fake news and bad news and falsehoods they haven't checked, from known liars of the past, as a matter of policy. Other news deliverers pick it up from there, as "respectable" and unavoidable. By this arrangement fake/bad news gets repeated with the weight of respectability behind it, and gets repeated all over the informational bandwidth of most people in the US.

The technical term for this - for "news" delivered by people who don't care whether or not it's false or the impression created by it is false - is bullshit. http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/385.On_Bullshit

Shirley Sherrod was the exact same thing as Zimmerman being made out to be racist, by cutting out the 911 dispatcher asking if the guy was white, black, or Hispanic. As well as click-bate headlines doing the same thing. While the organization was never prosecuted, several ACORN workers were convicted (1, 2). In this article, I don't see any popular rightwing media listed as spreading the pizzagate story. Perhaps you can share some? In the meantime:

 

[iceaura]

Racism and sexism are real, they just are not the main factors in the rise of Trump, nor are they even close to important factors in Pizzagate.

There is no more important factor in the rise of Trump than racism (he made his move as a Birther, for chrissake - can it get any more blatant?) and no more important factor than sexism in the dislike of Hillary. That's what those polls and voting patterns showed - look at the numbers, look at the polling questions, look at the voting patterns.

The alt-right trigger the news that you click on

Now the alt-right is triggering the news, not triggering me, and I am "clicking" on this news they trigger somehow - are they still getting off on it, like they were above? Are you aware of how silly you are becoming? And how stereotypically authoritarian rightwing on this forum? - personal attack, always, at the center.

You might want to give up on the personal stuff. You're too ignorant of the particulars to make sense, and all your guesses just reveal your own Fox-framed preconceptions.

It is either all there or not with you? Gradients are impossible for you to understand?

You, not me, are insisting on coming up with some kind of "the" important factor. I keep pointing out there isn't one, and you keep insisting on it.

Uneducated whites does not equal racist, as I explained many times before the labor class is desperate for economic improvements and see in trump their salvation.

In general, only racists and rich people see their economic salvation in Donald Trump. There are exceptions, no doubt, but that's the dominant pattern. Racism explains, for example, why a working class white person would see economic help in Trump - the other various explanations primarily being that they are just really, really, stupid in various ways. Seriously: morons.

Of course, those are not mutually exclusive. But the polls, surveys, conversations, etc, indicate that they aren't dumb, and that they are racist. So there you go.

 

[iceaura]

Shirley Sherrod was the exact same thing as Zimmerman being made out to be racist, by cutting out the 911 dispatcher asking if the guy was white, black, or Hispanic.

Only in wingnut world is a James O'Keefe video editing fraud presented as even remotely equivalent to something as irrelevant as the audio of some 911 dispatcher's question in the Zimmerman case.

That kind of false equivalency is yet more of the bad news and fake news we get from the Rightwing sources - which is where we get almost all the bad and fake news currently deluging the American political landscape.

Sherrod was fired for being successfully slandered as racist - because of lies about what she said indicating personal racism, lies which appeared only on that one video. That was her "crime" - to have been lied about via video.
Zimmerman was not prosecuted for being racist - he was prosecuted for following, confronting, and killing an unarmed teenage boy who had been walking down the public street. The obvious racism involved in the whole scene, from the police department on down, was not the crime, and was not itself assessed on the basis of any one edit of anything.

How does that kind of false equivalency - blatant lying in public - become standard?

 

[joepistole]

Shirley Sherrod was the exact same thing as Zimmerman being made out to be racist, by cutting out the 911 dispatcher asking if the guy was white, black, or Hispanic. As well as click-bate headlines doing the same thing. While the organization was never prosecuted, several ACORN workers were convicted (1, 2). In this article, I don't see any popular rightwing media listed as spreading the pizzagate story. Perhaps you can share some? In the meantime:

Let's look at that. Below is a Fox News video in defense of fake news:

Fox went even further by setting up a straw man: an illogical argument. They accuse the "left" of trying to supress free speech. That's now true. But you have to wonder why the right is so defensive and protective of fake news.

Fox News has a long history of promoting right wing conspiracies, i.e. fake news.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2010/11/29/unbalanced-fox-news-conspiracy-theory-obsession/173820

Alex Jones, one of the central actors in promoting Pizzagate, is very popular in right wing circles. Even the president elect appeared on Jones's radio program and complemented him for his reporting.

 

[Michael]

Re: BLM

BLM and the Alt-Right share one thing in common, they both make a categorical error leading to a fallacy in their reasoning. That being the concept of 'race'. In the real world, there are people who identify as 'insert race' and have been raised in good families, they probably have above average IQ and they work hard as part of making their lives better and that of the people around them. Then there people who identify as 'insert race' and they have been raised in single mother households, some of whom see their children as a means of accessing progressive welfare payments, who have low IQ, low impulse control and will be cut out of the economy via regulatory capture and rent-seeking on the parts of higher IQ people (that's the beauty of regulations and licencing scams - you can disenfranchise the poor and those with low IQ). Well, the poor low IQ people are waging a war against those around them.

Asians /ATM are really taking a hit. Walk on down to the local University and use the Asian Transaction Machine. Punch the face, money comes out (and a phone). Of course, Asians on average have higher IQ's than the general population. Old white people - oh ho ho ho. Santa has come to town. Now, to be fair, those racist f*cks carry guns. Look for a liberal looking one. Or, better year, punch the money out of a old white woman.

And etc....

BLM is making the mistake of equating all people who are 'black' into a single category. That's just not the case. So are the Alt-Right.

Not that it matters. In the real world, you're the wrong color, and you walk into the wrong part of town, you're dead. Now, that got me thinking, perhaps we should label this Terrorism? And then we can deploy the army against the Terrorists. Which, when you think about it, probably the whole reason we have the Patriot Act. Yay Police State, keeping the functional illiterates safe one bullet at a time.

Incidentally, with an average IQ of 85, on a normality curve that places about 1 in 5 individuals into the mentally retarded/handicap category. Also, an IQ of 85 is associated with the 'danger' zone of IQ - in terms of low impulse control, little foresight in terms of consequences and reasonable motivation. Lower IQ people are generally not motivated enough to commit a crime. If you wanted to create a human pit-bull, you'd go for IQ 85.

I believe there are race based IQ/ACT/SAT adjustments in the USA. As well as race based standards on public service employment tests - like the police force. I wonder why? Isn't this America? Where everyone is treated equally? LOL

Anyway, I forgot, it's all Asians fault. Which is why they have to be beaten down like the ATM's they are. Right? Where's the ARM?
LOL

 

[Syne]

Only in wingnut world is a James O'Keefe video editing fraud presented as even remotely equivalent to something as irrelevant as the audio of some 911 dispatcher's question in the Zimmerman case.

That kind of false equivalency is yet more of the bad news and fake news we get from the Rightwing sources - which is where we get almost all the bad and fake news currently deluging the American political landscape.

Sherrod was fired for being successfully slandered as racist - because of lies about what she said indicating personal racism, lies which appeared only on that one video. That was her "crime" - to have been lied about via video.
Zimmerman was not prosecuted for being racist - he was prosecuted for following, confronting, and killing an unarmed teenage boy who had been walking down the public street. The obvious racism involved in the whole scene, from the police department on down, was not the crime, and was not itself assessed on the basis of any one edit of anything.

How does that kind of false equivalency - blatant lying in public - become standard?

The original story, disseminating the edited footage, was not about Sherrod's racism but about the NAACP audience approval of of racist sentiment.

On July 19, 2010, two different video clips[A] were posted by the conservative commentator Andrew Breitbart to his BigGovernment.com website, along with a nearly 1,000-word blog post in which he accused the mainstream media and the NAACP of falsely labeling the Tea Party as racist. He states in the blog post, "eventually, her basic humanity informs that this white man is poor and needs help", and that the main point of the blog post and video release was that "Sherrod’s racist tale is received by the NAACP audience with nodding approval and murmurs of recognition and agreement. Hardly the behavior of the group now holding itself up as the supreme judge of another group’s racial tolerance." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firing_of_Shirley_Sherrod#Excerpted_video​

The first reaction to condemn Sherrod, and the audience, was the NAACP president.

Within hours of the excerpted video's being shown, Benjamin Jealous, president of the NAACP, condemned Sherrod for having abused her power and criticized the apparent audience reaction as well. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firing_of_Shirley_Sherrod#Reactions_to_the_incident​

Was Fox News pushing fake news when it reported on the NAACP statement?

The NAACP released a statement late Monday condemning Sherrod's admission.

"We are appalled by her actions, just as we are with abuses of power against farmers of color and female farmers," the statement said.

"Her actions were shameful," it continued. "While she went on to explain in the story that she ultimately realized her mistake, as well as the common predicament of working people of all races, she gave no indication she had attempted to right the wrong she had done to this man."​

Why didn't the NAACP find the whole footage before making this statement? Or was Fox News just reporting statements, like those made by witnesses immediately after the Brown shooting?

Your claim of fake news doesn't rely on outcome, just culpability in spreading lies, right? I agree that the editing was deceptive. But while Breitbart and Fox reported on footage they didn't have the original of, NBC did edit the Zimmerman 911 call to make him appear to be racist. So in which instance was the news organization culpable in the deception? Your answer will demonstrate any bias you may have.

 

[ElectricFetus]

There is no more important factor in the rise of Trump than racism

Wrong! And the birther movement was a failure for him.

Now the alt-right is triggering the news, not triggering me, and I am "clicking" on this news they trigger somehow - are they still getting off on it

Yes, yes they are, is that so hard for you to understand? Trolls get attention, "news" media makes money, people like you read their tripe, everyone wins, except for reason and truth.

And how stereotypically authoritarian rightwing on this forum? - personal attack, always, at the center.

I could say the same to you.

You might want to give up on the personal stuff. You're too ignorant of the particulars to make sense, and all your guesses just reveal your own Fox-framed preconceptions.

personal attacks from a rightwinger, oh wait its from you a regressive leftist, so it totally acceptable.

You, not me, are insisting on coming up with some kind of "the" important factor. I keep pointing out there isn't one, and you keep insisting on it.

First off strawman, second off just above you said "There is no more important factor in the rise of Trump than racism" that is clearly "the" important factor to you... how do you live with your hypocrisy?

In general, only racists and rich people see their economic salvation in Donald Trump.

And you derive this because you live in a hugbox, and are incapable of accepting counter evidence or counter theories, or even in entertaining the opinions of others, try to understand them from their own words, impossible for you.

There are exceptions, no doubt, but that's the dominant pattern. Racism explains, for example, why a working class white person would see economic help in Trump

Wrong! what you said does not begin to make sense! They see in trump and anti-establisment candidate, Hillary being a corrupt establishment candidate that promises no new good jobs they desperately desire, while trump promises to bring prosperity back, how is this so fucking hard for you to comprehend, that is what they told me with their own mouths!

the other various explanations primarily being that they are just really, really, stupid in various ways. Seriously: morons.

YES! YES! You are so close! This is the same population that voted for Bush Jr. twice, come on! They are desperate and uneducated and here comes a huckster that talks to them like no politician has (thus they have no immunity to his lies), how the fuck did you not think they would take this hook line and sinker?

Of course, those are not mutually exclusive. But the polls, surveys, conversations, etc, indicate that they aren't dumb, and that they are racist. So there you go.

No but stupidity leads to racism, racism does not lead to stupidly, as you need to be a idiot to begin with, stupidity is the fundamental problem.

 

[iceaura]

"There is no more important factor in the rise of Trump than racism"
Wrong! And the birther movement was a failure for him.

The birther movement launched his Presidential campaign - hardly a failure. And it remains a core feature of his voting base - most of the people who voted for him buy into it.

Yes, yes they are, is that so hard for you to understand? Trolls get attention, "news" media makes money, people like you read their tripe, everyone wins, except for reason and truth.

Except that I don't read their tripe (unless somebody like you rubs my nose in it), and the news media that gives trolls attention makes no money off me, and the trolls have no idea what I'm doing anyway - so there's no gratification for them from that.

Unless I am somehow responsible for the fantasy life of people who imagine all that for me - but I think you guys are responsible for your own little daydreams, actually. If you can't even take responsibility for your daydreams, you're in even bigger trouble than I thought.

YES! YES! You are so close! This is the same population that voted for Bush Jr. twice, come on! They are desperate and uneducated and here comes a huckster that talks to them like no politician has (thus they have no immunity to his lies), how the fuck did you not think they would take this hook line and sinker?

The lies weren't new. They were the same lies Reagan told, and W. Before that, George Wallace was dealing from the same deck. So was Nixon. It was called the "Southern Strategy", and it never went away - because it worked.

No but stupidity leads to racism, racism does not lead to stupidly, as you need to be a idiot to begin with, stupidity is the fundamental problem.

1) Racism leads to stupid behavior. As Forrest Gump's mother put it: Stupid is as stupid does. Most of the vote for Trump would be an example, then, of racism leading to stupidity - if you go by Gump's movie mama.
Either that, or:
2) So all those people who are demonstrably racist - by the polls, by the surveys, by the voting patterns - are also stupid? Seriously?
The entire Confederacy, every white manjack south of the Mason Dixon Line, and all their heirs to the seventh generation - all morons, all stupid?
You never met the intelligent people in the white working class Trump voter cadre? I have. I've worked with them, drank with them, hung out with them.

second off just above you said "There is no more important factor in the rise of Trump than racism" that is clearly "the" important factor to you.

The evidence for stupidity is piling up, I have to admit.

And you derive this because you live in a hugbox, and are incapable of accepting counter evidence or counter theories, or even in entertaining the opinions of others, try to understand them from their own words, impossible for you.

I derived it from the polls, the surveys, the voting patterns, - and yes, their own words, from their own mouths, seeing as how I work with them and live among them and so forth. I've been listening to those folks explain themselves my entire adult life.

The question that best predicted a voter's choice between Trump and Clinton, in the professional surveys, was this one: "Is Barack Obama a Muslim". And I know, and you know, where a "yes" answer to that - and the Big Birther Trump vote - comes from.

"There are exceptions, no doubt, but that's the dominant pattern. Racism explains, for example, why a working class white person would see economic help in Trump"
Wrong! what you said does not begin to make sense! They see in trump and anti-establisment candidate, Hillary being a corrupt establishment candidate that promises no new good jobs they desperately desire, while trump promises to bring prosperity back, how is this so fucking hard for you to comprehend, that is what they told me with their own mouths!

So how was that ignorant and racially bigoted white people bought that load of baloney, and essentially nobody else?

 

[iceaura]

The original story, disseminating the edited footage, was not about Sherrod's racism but about the NAACP audience approval of of racist sentiment.

That's irrelevant - as well as deceptive. That's called "lying".

The first reaction to condemn Sherrod, and the audience, was the NAACP president.

That's also irrelevant

Was Fox News pushing fake news when it reported on the NAACP statement?

Fox solicited the NAACP statement. http://mediamatters.org/research/2010/07/22/timeline-of-breitbarts-sherrod-smear/168090
Yes - because they reported it as a reaction to a legitimate video, and presented the video to the NAACP as legitimate.

Why didn't the NAACP find the whole footage before making this statement?

They made the mistake of relying on Fox's presentation to them of fake news - they were the audience, remember? The audience is the victim, of fake news perps like Fox.

Or was Fox News just reporting statements, like those made by witnesses immediately after the Brown shooting?

No, Fox was perpetrating fake news. (The only thing the NAACP guys "witnessed" was Breitbart/Fox's presentation of fake video as news).

But while Breitbart and Fox reported on footage they didn't have the original of, NBC did edit the Zimmerman 911 call to make him appear to be racist. So in which instance was the news organization culpable in the deception?

The editing of the Sherrod video was extensive, significant, clearly calculated to deceive, and did deceive. Breitbart and Fox did not "report on" James O'Keefe's fake footage - they presented it. As information. They were the news source of it. They were completely culpable in their presentation of deliberately faked news, created for them by a source that had created deliberately faked news for them before - clearly, a contractor of some kind. They then expanded their coverage of the story, with that fiction at its center, for weeks, months even. Nobody at Fox or Breitbart was disciplined for their dishonesty.

NBC's edit(s) were both trivial, different from each other, easily and immediately rectified, and never concealed; in addition, Zimmerman's apparent racism, like that of the entire police department and local governance involved, was not fake or bad news (evident racism was an important visible feature of all serious reporting of any aspect of the incident). So there was no spreading of lies involved, in that trivial single edit - and even so, the perps suffered severe repercussions:

- - - A Miami-based NBC News producer lost her job, WTVJ reporter Jeff Burnside was fired,[362] and two other employees were disciplined.[363][364]Lilia Luciano, who was the reporter on broadcasts containing both edited versions of the audio,[357] was also fired, and some of her aired reports on the Trayvon Martin story, along with the misleading audio, were removed from the NBC News website

Meanwhile, the dishonest presentation of such false equivalences is a major fraction of the content of the fake and bad news reporting, and it is - like the rest of the fractions - overwhelmingly from rightwing "news" sources.

 

[Syne]

Thanks for demonstrating your blatant double standard.

 

[iceaura]

Thanks for demonstrating your blatant double standard.

False equivalencies (the "both sides" bs) are the wingnut stock in trade - a major component of the deluge of fake and bad news we suffer from the rightwing media operations.

This is what violates the standard involved - it would apply to "both sides", if there were another side in this particular matter - there isn't. It's a onesided phenomenon:

What we have instead, in the rightwing corporate dominated media right now, is a deliberate policy of lack of due diligence - repeating fake news and bad news and falsehoods they haven't checked, from known liars of the past, as a matter of policy. Other news deliverers pick it up from there, as "respectable" and unavoidable. By this arrangement fake/bad news gets repeated with the weight of respectability behind it, and gets repeated all over the informational bandwidth of most people in the US

 

[Syne]

Yet you've only demonstrated your partisan bias.

 

[joepistole]

Yet you've only demonstrated your partisan bias.

And you haven't?

 

[iceaura]

Yet you've only demonstrated your partisan bias.

You posted a false equivalence and a couple of flatout falsehoods - that is itself an item of bad and/or fake news (notice your several "errors" of description, such as pretending Fox was merely covering NAACP reaction statements), and like the rest of that stuff from a rightwing source (you). It's a onesided phenomenon. Any description of it is going to appear partisan biased, because the stuff itself is partisan biased.

We can't get much of that stuff from anybody else in the major media, not only because of the higher ethical standards common among decent and honest people, but also because everybody else has to discipline or even fire the perpetrators when they get caught - only the rightwing false and fake and bad news sources can keep their perps on the payroll, give them raises and big shows, repeat their bs and lies and slanders for years, etc.

 

[ElectricFetus]

The birther movement launched his Presidential campaign - hardly a failure.

Contrived! His president campaign began years after the birther movement fell flat. How about this: how often did he bring up the birther movement during his campaign? Fuck he even blamed it all on Hillary!

And it remains a core feature of his voting base - most of the people who voted for him buy into it.

First of all citation, second of all how does that prove they are racist? These people think the Illuminati and reptilians are behind everything too, and other alexs jones infowars tripe, does that make them racist? No just stupid.

Except that I don't read their tripe (unless somebody like you rubs my nose in it), and the news media that gives trolls attention makes no money off me, and the trolls have no idea what I'm doing anyway - so there's no gratification for them from that.

You cited Salon, Tiassa just cited Vox, open your fucking eyes!

Unless I am somehow responsible for the fantasy life of people who imagine all that for me - but I think you guys are responsible for your own little daydreams, actually. If you can't even take responsibility for your daydreams, you're in even bigger trouble than I thought.

Personal Attack.

The lies weren't new. They were the same lies Reagan told, and W. Before that, George Wallace was dealing from the same deck. So was Nixon. It was called the "Southern Strategy", and it never went away - because it worked.

Huge difference between the lies of Wallace and Reagan, when Reagan brought out trickle down economics even Bush was calling it out as bullshit! As for this being the Southern Strategy, that makes no sense with the likes of Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. If your saying the lie that "everything sucks and I will make it great again" is not novel, yes that is correct, the problem is that the lies were present in a fashion that was novel: a bombastic ignorant pig boar was something the people had no immunity to, a double talking calculating machiavellian archetype of a modern politician like Hillary everyone was use to and hated.

1) Racism leads to stupid behavior. As Forrest Gump's mother put it: Stupid is as stupid does. Most of the vote for Trump would be an example, then, of racism leading to stupidity - if you go by Gump's movie mama.

Taking lessons by re-interpreting a quote from a movie is stupidity. They did not vote for trump out of racism, they voted for trump because they think he will get them prosperity again.

Either that, or:
2) So all those people who are demonstrably racist - by the polls, by the surveys, by the voting patterns - are also stupid? Seriously

Yes, they are stupid, worse they vote, and finally they are not demonstrably racist by polls of voting pattern.

lets break this down: first off there are republicans that will never ever vote anything but republican, their reasons are purely loyalty to the party or something about stopping abortion, seriously some have told me that trump being a republican will stop abortion and save the babies. That represented virtually all of the trump voter, minus a one or two million independents that voted for obama before on "hope and change" and voted for trump now on "Make America Great Again" and "drain the swamp" because they see in him "real change" or a wracking ball to destroy Washington, the rest is simply lack of democrat turnout for a lackluster candidate.

The entire Confederacy, every white manjack south of the Mason Dixon Line, and all their heirs to the seventh generation - all morons, all stupid?

JESUS YES! Why is that so hard for you to understand?

You never met the intelligent people in the white working class Trump voter cadre? I have. I've worked with them, drank with them, hung out with them.

Well I talked with them and hung out with them and they are not that bright, you try knocking door to door, see how many morons responded "well I support family values!" Mind you being intelligent is not a requirement in order to be a decent persons, maybe you should watch Forest Gump again.

I derived it from the polls, the surveys, the voting patterns, - and yes, their own words, from their own mouths, seeing as how I work with them and live among them and so forth. I've been listening to those folks explain themselves my entire adult life.

What you derived from the polls, surveys and voting patterns could very well be epicycle and more so you can't derive their thoughts from such things! As for your personal experiences, sounds to me like observation bias.

The question that best predicted a voter's choice between Trump and Clinton, in the professional surveys, was this one: "Is Barack Obama a Muslim". And I know, and you know, where a "yes" answer to that - and the Big Birther Trump vote - comes from.

Let me get this straight, if they think Obama is a Muslims, they must be racist? There is no other possibility in your mind? More so all of those people are republicans to begin with, so their vote for what ever the republicans fielded was guaranteed, and yet they failed, twice, to stop the "negro muslim overlord" from being president, so again where did that extra 1-2 million trump voters come from?

So how was that ignorant and racially bigoted white people bought that load of baloney, and essentially nobody else?

Lots of labor class voters bought it, and those that did not vote for trump: voted third party or not at all to protest. Look at the voter turn out again and the demographics and tell me Clinton got an enthusiastic turn out from everyone but racist whites.