Pornography

David Mayes:
Do you make a distinction between pornography as just explicit sex and thus acceptable, and the degrading lie-based content that usually appears in most porno?
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What "degrading lie based content"?
I don't know "most porno".

...This is amusing.

I rarely make moral judgements, only aesthetic ones. Presumably whoever appears in an average porn flick is doing so by their consent, therefore whether they find it unpleasent or not is a matter of their own concern. I don't like my job either. Chances are I'd find something truely abhorrent to be truely abhorrent, thus not sexually stimulating, thus the question is one of practicality more than anything else.

I don't think there's an argument here.
 
You don't think that women being told to pretend to love cum, swirling it, gargling it, swaping it with their girlfriends is morally questionable behaviour?

What about the Chocolate dip or whatever the hell they call it?....LOL
 
David Mayes:
You don't think that women being told to pretend to love cum, swirling it, gargling it, swaping it with their girlfriends is morally questionable behaviour?
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1: Whose morality? You can't make a blanket statement like that without specifying the standard of morality you're using.

2: No, I don't think it's morally questionable. If some chick gets off on passing a mouthful of semen back and forth with her girlfriend, good on her. Since all parties involved are enjoying the act, I fail to see how it could be convincingly argued as immoral.

Not that morality can be argued convincingly at all. But what's wrong with pleasure? Struggle against the fundamentally unpleasant nature of the universe is what forms man's nobility.

What about the Chocolate dip or whatever the hell they call it?....LOL
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I have no idea what this is.
 
One mans pornography is another mans art.
One mans obscenity is another mans beauty.
When sex has come to represent sin, as it has for many that have been infected with religious filth, then it becomes something to fear and suppress, making the pornography industry possible, as prohibition made alcohol more popular and the drug war is making drugs so also.
I think the popularity of pornography speaks more on how repressed and sexually unsatisfied most are in modern societies and in fundamentalist regimes.
I know married men who see two or three porn films a week, raising the question:
Why would someone with access to sexual gratification need pornography?
The answer:
This sexual gratification is artificial and forced and no longer natural.
Most marriages are based on comfort once the lust has been left behind and on insecurity, the fear of not being able to attract someone else, so most satisfy their inner desire for other sexual partners through fantasy.
Most women do it through romance novels, men through pornography showing once more the gender differences in how they percieve sexual intimacy and romantic love.

Pornography can also be used to satisfy hidden unconventional desires, such as pedophilia, bestiality, necrophilia [homosexuality up until recently] and many, many others. So it correctly serves as a pressure release valve that pacifies inner desire that could become harmful if it is repressed for long.

Some of the deformities and defects of prolonged sexual repression can be seen in many Christian and Muslim individuals and in how they label dirty things like the naked human body and the natural sexual act itself and in how they try to repress sexual activity in others that are more healthy than them.
 
People fantasize whether they are married or not - the degree to which you fantasize (and masturbate for that matter) doesn't have that much to do with whether you're married or have a partner, it has more to do with how much free time you have.
 
Xev

1: Whose morality? You can't make a blanket statement like that without specifying the standard of morality you're using.
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How about yours?

2: No, I don't think it's morally questionable. If some chick gets off on passing a mouthful of semen back and forth with her girlfriend, good on her. Since all parties involved are enjoying the act, I fail to see how it could be convincingly argued as immoral.
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They don't get off on it....go hire one and look at their faces or....meet me at the corner of **** and **** and I'll help you decide if it's a lovely experience....LOL.

Not that morality can be argued convincingly at all. But what's wrong with pleasure? Struggle against the fundamentally unpleasant nature of the universe is what forms man's nobility.
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As I've already mentioned, I have no problem with pornography as in explicit sexual contact between consenting adults...my problem is the degrading content that the porn industry tries to pass off as normal, they try and pass it off as normal by it's repetitive degrading content.

Have you ever watched an X-rated video, have you ever received x-rated spam?

What about the Chocolate dip or whatever the hell they call it?....LOL
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Don't know it's exact name, but this is where a guy takes his penis out of the girls bum, and places it in her mouth....would you do that, would you like any of your girlfriends to do that?

Try explaining that to mom and dad.
 
One mans pornography is another mans art.
One mans obscenity is another mans beauty.
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Wanderer...I thought you agreed with my comments on human nature...yet here you say that anything goes....well if so, do you want to meet at 4th and **** and experiment?

I define pornography as explicit sex between consenting adults.
I define the sex that seems to be the norm for the porn industry as debauchery.
 
David Mayes:
How about yours?
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As a semi-nihilist, I have no set of moral standards. I have my preferences, I do not arrogate onto myself the need to set them as fact.

They don't get off on it....go hire one and look at their faces or....meet me at the corner of **** and **** and I'll help you decide if it's a lovely experience....LOL.
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You'd be suprised what some women enjoy.

As I've already mentioned, I have no problem with pornography as in explicit sexual contact between consenting adults...my problem is the degrading content that the porn industry tries to pass off as normal, they try and pass it off as normal by it's repetitive degrading content.
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And isn't the impulse to degrade one's partner more or less inherent to a man's sex drive?
We all know it is. If the "dirty little secret" is exposed by the pornographers, is that the fault of the industry or of human nature?

Besides, who says they try to pass it off as normal?
Part of the allure of pornography is that what they depict is decidedly abnormal. Bataille would say that the sexual urge is inherently linked to transgression. I suspect that it has more to do with marketing - porn is safe fantasy, and the more "transgressive" or "abnormal" the act is, the more exciting it is.
Don't believe me? Look at the way pallid, weakling academics hero-worship the Marquis de Sade. The powerless fantasize about being the brutal, transgressive sadist. The unattractive fantasize about being beautiful studs (why do you think male actors are so goddamned ugly?) and everyone wants to escape reality and come.
Only a moron sees it as reality.

Have you ever watched an X-rated video, have you ever received x-rated spam?
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Yes. And?

Don't know it's exact name, but this is where a guy takes his penis out of the girls bum, and places it in her mouth....
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That's nice. I needed to know this.

Try explaining that to mom and dad.
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Tell the truth, I wouldn't want to talk about even the most prosaic sexual acts with my parents.
 
Quote: "Most women do it through romance novels, men through pornography showing once more the gender differences in how they percieve sexual intimacy and romantic love"

That's a gross generalization about female sexuality, especially with the variety of porn shops for women I see popping up all over NY ie: Babes in Toyland. Paraphilia is not solely the domain of men and there are just as many men who seek intimacy and romance. Not all women confuse or link sex with love. You may be suprised at how many women watch porn, alone and with their partners. Also the porn industry is not simply run by men there are quite a few women cashing in on the very lucrative business by marketing themselves and others, producing films etc.

I find it amusing that some believe sex and sensuality to create an imbalance in the mind, neither I believe has anything to do with porn but eroticism. I would think a healthy mind is one unified with the body, an integrated individual does not struggle with the body or any of its urges.

Yes Mayers there is quite a bit of debauchery in porn, perhaps most do not get off on a mouth full of excrement but that is besides the point. Like the female character in Belle Du Jour some women don't get off at all unless they are being humiliated and debased (live and let live). Western sex-trade workers do have choices, there are a variety of ways for them to get paid in the sex industry without having to submit to what they perceive as a degrading act.
 
The morality of men's minds is just that, OF THE MIND. It differs from one to the other.
I've noticed that this topic has been discussed at length, and I find this a great perturbation, I myself regarding it a matter of simple sense.

None on this Earth should be so bold as to stand forth and pronounce 'moral' sentence on others.
Whether or not you not you realize it, your 'moral' accusals and arbitrations reflect on none but yourself.

If it is true that some women can condone, even exult in these eroticisms, such be they to your eyes or not, then these are not wrongs for you to point out.

Whether or not God deems these sins is His prerogative, and, if you remember, even our Lord dined with the sinful.

Truly, likings for these odd practices would be perversions if the entirety of relevant Scripture be taken seriously, but they were and are, perhaps, indulged by ignorance, not design.
Remember, God does not judge as men do, for He is perfect.

"But one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows."
~Luke 12:48~
 
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I am so confused. On the one hand you have the lord dining with the sinful and on the other the sinful is being beaten with a few blows?
 
The Lord dined with the sinful in order that He might be their "physician". The point I was trying to make is that even the most perfect being to ever exist did not balk when faced with depravity: He did not stop to denounce and brand them, and neither should we.

After all, we are to emulate Him in all the ways we can.
"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
~Matthew 5:48~

The point of the pasage about "few blows" is one of the most important points of Christianity there is, I believe.

What is says, basically, is that all humans will be judged in accordance with the conditions of their lives, the circumstances of their existence.
What you do not and cannot know will not hurt you.

God is all-knowing, and He holds you not accountable for things you could never have helped. For this He will show mercy.
If the perversions mentioned earlier in this thread were not fostered intentionally, God will show mercy to their possessors.

This could bring up the issue of free-will, which is something even I'm not clear on, admittedly.
 
Quote:What you do not and cannot know will not hurt you.

Haha. That is the best argument I have heard in a very long time for living in ignorance.

One point though, unknowingly sleeping with an AIDS infected partner will and does hurt. All action has a consequence.
 
These are not actions which the person himself might perform.

These are circumstances, known or unknown by the person. These are the very elements of the person's life, elements whose purpose cannot be understood by the person or coped with by his free-will.

This passage is not a call for "living in ignorance"; it's an assurance that God will not charge you with crimes you could not control due to your lack of divine understanding or transcendence. Sometimes, in life, you don't get a choice, and, in these instances, God is merciful.
 
Lucysnow, welcome back.

Rappaccini: Please keep religious discussions to the religious sub-forum. Philosophy is a rational discipline - or should be guided by rational principles.
 
Wanderer...I thought you agreed with my comments on human nature...yet here you say that anything goes....well if so, do you want to meet at 4th and **** and experiment?
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Where do I say anything goes?
I'm describing the reasons why porn exists and is so popular in our modern civilization. I'm not saying I agree with it or like it.

You're not my type, besides I don't think you want to meet me.

I define pornography as explicit sex between consenting adults.
I define the sex that seems to be the norm for the porn industry as debauchery.
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I think much of the pornographic industry depicts just how fucked up most men and women are and how sex has turned from an act of intimacy and connection between two people to just an act of entertainment with no meaning or purpose.
In a culture believing that the purpose of life is pleasure or happiness and wanting immediate satisfaction and throw-away consumerism, it is evident why porn exists and is necessary.
The misogyny revealed through images of ejaculation on female faces, bestiality and so forth is just a way for many men to exact revenge upon the women they fear and are resentful towards.
What more demeaning act than to have the one you despise lower herself/himself by having sex with animals or by coming all over their face as if they are nothing but objects or by defecating and pissing all over them or I dare say by having them have sex with base, simple inferior males.
Besides the few examples of sick pornography I believe pornography in general to be necessary as masturbation is a healthy outlet for sexual desire.
Many males and females today use porn as they use all entertainment [video games, movies and so forth] to live vicariously through the characters depicted. Through porn most men actually get to have sex or stop feeling insecure about their penis size and performance or become attractive, well built womanizers as they also become masculine through violent games and movies that pacify their desire for action, aggressiveness and brutality.
In a world that values femininity because of its conforming and accepting character masculinity and maleness is defused through surrogate methods.
Freud said that fantasy is evidence of dissatisfaction. If he is right then how dissatisfied are we as a culture with our sexuality, sex lives and our lives in general?
 
David Mayes:

"They don't get off on it....go hire one and look at their faces or....meet me at the corner of **** and **** and I'll help you decide if it's a lovely experience....LOL."

David, sound like you have had, shall we say, a somewhat limited experience with human sexuality?

Actually LOTS of females enjoy playing with their man's semen, and derive a tremendous sexual enjoyment and power from having it on them, in them. This is from my experience - but I'll grant you that there is a lot of prudishness out there!

It isn't surprising really, that this would be erotic or stimulating to either sex, it is a basic primate urge. Let's face it, semen is probably the most powerful substance in the human body as it contains the genesis of new life. I think our psyches developed the sensuous "cum ritual" as a mechanism to get more of it where nature wants it - in, on or around a receptive female! And there is also the "marking territory" aspect of the ritual, as well. And you can't discount the submissive aspect of cumplay either, that is also deeply ingrained within human sexuality.

So, I find your comments on this topic to be rather odd, but definitely congruent with typical American prudishness. That anyone considers cumplay to be "pornographic" is completely baffling to me.
 
Watcher says:
Let's face it, semen is probably the most powerful substance in the human body as it contains the genesis of new life.
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?

What a weird view of this you have. Your girlfriend probably plays with your semen 'cause it's funny sticky stuff. I think you're reading too much into that.
 
From "Dr. Strangelove: or how I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb":

Ripper:
You know when fluoridation first began?

Mandrake:
No. No, I don't, Jack. No.

Ripper:
Nineteen hundred and forty six. Nineteen fortysix, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your postwar commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual, and certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard core commie works.

Mandrake:
Jack... Jack, listen, tell me, ah... when did you first become, well, develop this theory.

Ripper:
Well, I ah, I I first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love.

Mandrake:
(sighs fearfully)

Ripper:
Yes a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I was able to interpret these feelings correctly: loss of essence.

Mandrake:
Yes...

Ripper:
I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women... women sense my power, and they seek the live essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake, but I do deny them my essence.
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