Rationality versus religion

So whats with all the attitude you vent out about Christians sharing their views in a "Religion" Section of a forum?
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No, it's because you said atheists don't believe in "god". that has many different meanings to different people. even when most agnostics admit there is no proof either way, they don't mean they think in the christian or muslim etc sense either.

a person could have their own spiritual explanation for existence which does not line up to the traditional definition of what the word 'god' usually denotes by traditional religion which is usually a deity etc.
 
Skeptical said:
I am constantly baffled by religico's views. Adstar is a prime example. Absolutely no conception of the need for credible evidence.
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No mate people like you want a CERTAIN TYPE OF EVIDANCE other than the Evidence God wills to give mankind.



Faith is a quality that, in everyday life, leads to people being screwed by other people.
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Yes i agree. But the mistake they make is to place their faith in other people. Faith should only be placed in God.



If you have faith in the used car salesman, guess what you buy. The early Mormons had faith, and Joseph Smith stole their wives. Having faith is another phrase meaning 'gullible'.
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Yep they had faith in other men. But God is perfect and Good and Just. So faith/trust in Him is a safe bet :)



In religion, having faith means giving up your valuable time to carry out pointless vocal gymnastics in some church,
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I have not been inside a church for years. So no vocal gymnastics needed for me.


and giving money to the parasites who work in that church.
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I have not given any money to a church in years.



I fail to understand why religicos seem to think that evidence which would not stand up in a court of law, or be accepted by a scientific journal, is OK. It is not OK.
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Yes it is Ok, because God wants it that way. If it was scientifically proven that God exists and He is the God of Abraham then some people would submit to Him out of fear not through trust and agreement. Do you think God wants to spend eternity with people who hate the love of His Truth? Therefore His message is the attractor, drawing those who God wants with Him in Eternity.



It is not rational to believe in something for which there is no solid evidence. If religious beliefs are correct, then the evidence must be there.
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Of course it is there. But it is spiritual in nature, not a measurable physical thing. Science cannot measure God. Science is only good for measuring the created, not the Creator.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
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birch said:
No, it's because you said atheists don't believe in "god".
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Helloooo, If someone says they do not believe in the God of Abraham then when i say they do not believe in God then THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD. Simple statement of fact.

that has many different meanings to different people.
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So?? If they want to express their views all good and well. If they believe i am wrong in my views i will nor be chucking a temper tantrum like you. I am confident in my faith, No one saying that i am wrong can undermine my confidence. If others have a problem with me stating that i believe they are wrong then they are showing a Lack of confidence in their view.


even when most agnostics admit there is no proof either way, they don't mean they think in the christian or muslim etc sense either.
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An agnostic is not an atheists. Agnostics say God might exists. Atheists say God does not exists. Two very different beasts.

a person could have their own spiritual explanation for existence which does not line up to the traditional definition of what the word 'god' usually denotes by traditional religion which is usually a deity etc.
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Ok.. So?? Once again they are free to put forward their views. And anyone who is drawn to their views and believes will be drawn and they will believe. So be it. That does not shake my confidence in The God of Abraham. I am not going to be enraged and spit my dummy like people who have little or no confidence in their position do.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days
 
Most atheists protest over the expressed will of God. They are against God not because of His existence or otherwise but because they disagree with His teachings.
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they are arguing over the concept of the religion, that's all. since it's believed by whomever of religious persuasion to be absolute truth, they are arguing with it on that basis. if one does not agree with the biblical god, then they would of course argue against it not only on it's supposed existence.


An agnostic is not an atheists. Agnostics say God might exists. Atheists say God does not exists. Two very different beasts.
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yes i know but i was including the example of agnostic too because agnostics don't necessarily take everything that is described or believed by various religions to be true anyways. they are just admitting in general that they really do not know if there was some creator or some larger entity out there that might be influencing or responsible. all the different religious details are something altogether not the issue.

Helloooo, If someone says they do not believe in the God of Abraham then when i say they do not believe in God then THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD. Simple statement of fact.
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no, the point is they could think they believe in god just as you do but either you or they might think eachother is incorrect or think eachother's concept is not "god" or what the hoot.
 
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Adstar said:
No mate people like you want a CERTAIN TYPE OF EVIDANCE other than the Evidence God wills to give mankind.


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Sorry (mate) but there is only one kind - the scientific, rational, logical kind.

You beliefs, opinions, and mythology do not meet the test of reality which is the universe in which we live..
 
Adstar said:
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Yes it is Ok, because God wants it that way. If it was scientifically proven that God exists and He is the God of Abraham then some people would submit to Him out of fear not through trust and agreement. Do you think God wants to spend eternity with people who hate the love of His Truth? Therefore His message is the attractor, drawing those who God wants with Him in Eternity.



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Ah, the old unproveable cop-out.

It's beyond understanding so you MUST believe.

Sorry, but this simply does not cut it. Appeal to authority, besides being wrong, requires an authority.
 
Adstar said:
Helloooo, If someone says they do not believe in the God of Abraham then when i say they do not believe in God then THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD. Simple statement of fact.
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As I've said many times, it's the theist that defines the atheist.
 
Skeptical said:
TRUST is a quality that, in everyday life, leads to people being screwed by other people. If you have TRUST in the used car salesman, guess what you buy.
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this is what it sounds like you are saying.
The early Mormons had faith, and Joseph Smith stole their wives. Having faith is another phrase meaning 'gullible'.
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thats what they get for following a guy who stuck his head in a hat...

In religion, having faith means giving up your valuable time to carry out pointless vocal gymnastics in some church, and giving money to the parasites who work in that church. To me, before I sacrificed both time and money, I would need to be convinced by solid, credible evidence, that what I was giving time and money to was worthwhile.
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again this sound like a trust thing to me..i mean..you trusted those who were telling you what to do..now you are learning how to think for yourself..that doesn't make everything that has been done to you bad (within reason) it just makes you who you are..who would you be without those experience..
I fail to understand why religicos seem to think that evidence which would not stand up in a court of law, or be accepted by a scientific journal, is OK. It is not OK. It is not rational to believe in something for which there is no solid evidence. If religious beliefs are correct, then the evidence must be there.
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its the difference between choosing to believe and being told to believe..
 
Adstar said:
An agnostic is not an atheists. Agnostics say God might exists. Atheists say God does not exists. Two very different beasts.
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Kennyc said:
This is wrong. Atheists say there is no proof of god. A very different thing.
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ok we now have;
atheist who don't believe in god..
AND
athiest that say there is no proof of god..
AND
athiests who hate god..

any more?

hmm there seems to be a pattern here..
 
The problem is that the words 'agnostic' and 'atheist' are not clearly defined. I have seen various meanings for the two words. Not unusual. Lots of words are a bit ambiguous in meaning. That does not mean much.

On trust versus faith. Yes, they are very similar. In some situations, they are synonyms. Trust, like faith, needs to be modified by healthy scepticism. Being over trusting is another invitation to being screwed.
 
atheist cant make up their mind what they believe...
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no, atheists just reject the idea of a god-like entity.

atheists do not believe in the above or definition of god or what that term usually denotes, they reject it altogether as irrevelant as they see no point in even entertaining the idea.

agnostics do entertain the idea to a certain point or at least the part of a possible creator (religious details are not the issue).

so the difference is that atheists don't entertain the idea and agnostics do to a certain extent.
 
I stand by my definition. You can't prove something doesn't exist. which is what is what I was objecting to. You can't prove god doesn't exist, but you can say there is no proof of god.
 
birch said:
no, atheists just reject the idea of a god-like entity.
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including the ones who hate god?
atheists do not believe in the above or definition of god or what that term usually denotes, they reject it altogether as irrevelant as they see no point in even entertaining the idea.
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yet still they are the most verbal about god..(at least here on sciforums..)

agnostics do entertain the idea to a certain point or at least the part of a possible creator (religious details are not the issue).
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so are you agnostic or atheist? (trick question..)
so the difference is that atheists don't entertain the idea and agnostics do to a certain extent.
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um..see above comment about who talks the most about god here on sciforums..
 
NMSquirrel said:
including the ones who hate god?

yet still they are the most verbal about god..(at least here on sciforums..)


so are you agnostic or atheist? (trick question..)

um..see above comment about who talks the most about god here on sciforums..
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An atheist can't hate god because they would then be confirming that god exists.
 
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