reincarnation in other faiths?
- Thread starter Oxygen
- Start date
Hi,
Reincarnation philosophy is simple,Uploading the same neural pattern back inside the world computer program,inside a new body carrier.the difference is that previous memories are sub-dued
its all like dream:we dream,we forget in the morning when we wake up,similiarly we wake up from the program,inserted back with erasure...
bye!
Reincarnation philosophy is simple,Uploading the same neural pattern back inside the world computer program,inside a new body carrier.the difference is that previous memories are sub-dued
its all like dream:we dream,we forget in the morning when we wake up,similiarly we wake up from the program,inserted back with erasure...
bye!
kmguru
Staff member
That is true. I think, in Hinduism, the soul (Atma) or the life force is eternal. But it grows and learns by the interaction with other matter, whether on this planet or any other place. My understanding is that the soul is a quantum state of being that starts somewhere and continues in time forward...learning and evolving...as in grid computing....
I'm not an expert in Hinduism by any means, but saying the soul learns and evolves sounds contradictory to the Bhagavad Gita. I took it as the "soul" being a more primitive state. Certainly at least it's an impersonal state, everyone has the same universal soul. "Atman is brahman." The individual self is really the universal self. I don't see how the universal self would learn or evolve, it's more of a common basic state of being, a state of basic happiness/contentedness.
At least my impression from the Gita was that life is deterministic, we don't control our actions, and the mind/body simply acts out a physical script unrelated to the real self. We're only the observer, not actually having any influence. Of course, it seems to me like it contradicts itself in spots also, and I don't think I'll ever understand why you're supposed to free atman from the delusions of attachments if you actually already brahman anyway... doesn't seem like realizing it would change anything really.
[Edit:] Turning to Google, my personal source for all knowledge (), here's a better description:
At least my impression from the Gita was that life is deterministic, we don't control our actions, and the mind/body simply acts out a physical script unrelated to the real self. We're only the observer, not actually having any influence. Of course, it seems to me like it contradicts itself in spots also, and I don't think I'll ever understand why you're supposed to free atman from the delusions of attachments if you actually already brahman anyway... doesn't seem like realizing it would change anything really.
[Edit:] Turning to Google, my personal source for all knowledge (
), here's a better description:
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Gita Says Atman never takes birth and it never dies.it has been there forever...
I can interpret that as Rule boundary.that is to say,Atman is not ruled by our world's limitations,eg Birth,death etc.it is the part of us that lives forever.
Atman is another name for Soul.
Brahmand is Universe in Sanskrit and Hindi.
bye!
I can interpret that as Rule boundary.that is to say,Atman is not ruled by our world's limitations,eg Birth,death etc.it is the part of us that lives forever.
Atman is another name for Soul.
Brahmand is Universe in Sanskrit and Hindi.
bye!
Either whoever made that site makes consistent mistakes, or there are different translations of the spellings when switching alphabets.
Yes, Atman is eternal, but would it be possible for it to learn from interaction like kmguru suggests? I had the impression that it's more of a constant state that wouldn't have anything to interact with, and only the deluded person (dualist) would consider it to be different from the universe.
Yes, Atman is eternal, but would it be possible for it to learn from interaction like kmguru suggests? I had the impression that it's more of a constant state that wouldn't have anything to interact with, and only the deluded person (dualist) would consider it to be different from the universe.
kmguru
Staff member
Here is a possible answer:
First imagine a self aware Internet with grid computing. Now, the nodes themselves have some capabilities but not the same as the whole Internet with billions of nodes. To be self aware, learn, understand and act, all the nodes are necessary. If a few drop off, that does not diminish the total capabilities. Each node takes in from the input that is fed by the humans. A child's computer deals with all matters that are in the child's domain and so on. The big picture comes from the sum total of information and hence awareness.
Switching to Atman - we can say that one atman connected to the big Atman is a part of the whole. Any personality and information gathered by that atman is used and stored in the big Atman. If one is unplugged from the "commonality", still the commonality keeps a copy of the files, records and so on. Now, without the individual system, the commonality does not exist from the beginning. The experience must be gone through in order to evolve. The commonality may decide to try out new things based on past experience from the collection of experience of its nodes...and so on.
While, it is possible for the universe to be deterministic as much as a DNA predisposes to a certain property, the initial condition (as in the seed of a random number) defines that determinism. But that is a higher order of function that can only be controlled by someone who defined the initial condition. Say, you start with a specific seed to generate a random number. You know, what it will be after a specific iteration but others that do not have access to that seed do not. So others will consider the effect of that random number. What I am trying to say that, even if there is an absolute determinism, it is controlled by a higher order that we mere mortals do not have access to and can not change the reality at the highest level. But, at a lower level it does produce infinite variations of life, universe and everything. Then why?
Another saying in Hinduism is that everything is "Maya" - an illusion. When you clone a kitten, the kitten does not know the outcome, but you do and enjoy it. The kitten is a part of that reality. The cloned kitten is expected to behave just like the original. And so life goes on. But someone is learning something from that experiment at a higher order. So, the small "atman" learns and passes on the experience to the big "Atman" - which grows and evolves to satisfy to yet a bigger "Brahmn" - the next level to our local universe.
In Hinduism, such layers does exist like humans to local gods to Indras to so many Visnus etc to ulimately a reality that does not have any form. It is called "Nirakar" - means "formless". Nih - No, not; Akar - Form. It is similar to the thought that the total matter and energy came from a "thought".
BTW - The Gita is not the foundation of Hinduism like Bible is to Christianity. It is a book about some clarifications on issues that one king had about life and duty and philosophy. The real foundation is the Vedas (all four of them). It is easier to understand Gita for the lay person than understand Vedas. It is like an ordinary person reading a book by Stephen Hawkings on string theory and a physicist doing post PhD and research on the subject. There is a BIG difference.
First imagine a self aware Internet with grid computing. Now, the nodes themselves have some capabilities but not the same as the whole Internet with billions of nodes. To be self aware, learn, understand and act, all the nodes are necessary. If a few drop off, that does not diminish the total capabilities. Each node takes in from the input that is fed by the humans. A child's computer deals with all matters that are in the child's domain and so on. The big picture comes from the sum total of information and hence awareness.
Switching to Atman - we can say that one atman connected to the big Atman is a part of the whole. Any personality and information gathered by that atman is used and stored in the big Atman. If one is unplugged from the "commonality", still the commonality keeps a copy of the files, records and so on. Now, without the individual system, the commonality does not exist from the beginning. The experience must be gone through in order to evolve. The commonality may decide to try out new things based on past experience from the collection of experience of its nodes...and so on.
While, it is possible for the universe to be deterministic as much as a DNA predisposes to a certain property, the initial condition (as in the seed of a random number) defines that determinism. But that is a higher order of function that can only be controlled by someone who defined the initial condition. Say, you start with a specific seed to generate a random number. You know, what it will be after a specific iteration but others that do not have access to that seed do not. So others will consider the effect of that random number. What I am trying to say that, even if there is an absolute determinism, it is controlled by a higher order that we mere mortals do not have access to and can not change the reality at the highest level. But, at a lower level it does produce infinite variations of life, universe and everything. Then why?
Another saying in Hinduism is that everything is "Maya" - an illusion. When you clone a kitten, the kitten does not know the outcome, but you do and enjoy it. The kitten is a part of that reality. The cloned kitten is expected to behave just like the original. And so life goes on. But someone is learning something from that experiment at a higher order. So, the small "atman" learns and passes on the experience to the big "Atman" - which grows and evolves to satisfy to yet a bigger "Brahmn" - the next level to our local universe.
In Hinduism, such layers does exist like humans to local gods to Indras to so many Visnus etc to ulimately a reality that does not have any form. It is called "Nirakar" - means "formless". Nih - No, not; Akar - Form. It is similar to the thought that the total matter and energy came from a "thought".
BTW - The Gita is not the foundation of Hinduism like Bible is to Christianity. It is a book about some clarifications on issues that one king had about life and duty and philosophy. The real foundation is the Vedas (all four of them). It is easier to understand Gita for the lay person than understand Vedas. It is like an ordinary person reading a book by Stephen Hawkings on string theory and a physicist doing post PhD and research on the subject. There is a BIG difference.
I know Hinduism is mostly about the Vedas (which I haven't read), but doesn't the Gita specifically mention that Arjuna should trust what Krisha is saying in the Gita over the Vedas? Seems like it takes a couple shots at the vedas, saying they're just more about prescribing the way life should be lived, rather than the basic nature. So I guess there's a sort of conflict between Hinduism and Gita-ism?
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kmguru
Staff member
Never trust a guy who has the delusion of grandeur like Godhood. Even Buddha took pot shots at Hinduism - the priest version. Always go to the source.
The nature of reality that is discussed in Gita is very nice and again designed for the common folks, where as Veda is a documentation of the Knowledgebase at the time. I give credence to the documentation of knowledgebase rather than to the pop book on metaphysics.
In short, to me Gita is a highschool textbook and Veda is a postgraduate knowledge book.
It is elementary my dear....
The nature of reality that is discussed in Gita is very nice and again designed for the common folks, where as Veda is a documentation of the Knowledgebase at the time. I give credence to the documentation of knowledgebase rather than to the pop book on metaphysics.
In short, to me Gita is a highschool textbook and Veda is a postgraduate knowledge book.
It is elementary my dear....
Actually, there is reincarnation also in the West.
Some Greek philosophers in the lineage of Plato believed that the immortal soul, incapable of reaching the World of Ideas, but not too stained to suffer damnation, could "reincarnate" (that's far from being the proper word) into someone else.
Also, the Jewish also believe in reincarnation. Apparently, according to how many evil you've done in your past life, there are several paths granted to you ranging from eternal damnation to eternal bliss. One of them is purification, I think there's an other I can't remember and the last one is you're given a 'second chance' to make good while in an other life - reincarnation.
Some Greek philosophers in the lineage of Plato believed that the immortal soul, incapable of reaching the World of Ideas, but not too stained to suffer damnation, could "reincarnate" (that's far from being the proper word) into someone else.
Also, the Jewish also believe in reincarnation. Apparently, according to how many evil you've done in your past life, there are several paths granted to you ranging from eternal damnation to eternal bliss. One of them is purification, I think there's an other I can't remember and the last one is you're given a 'second chance' to make good while in an other life - reincarnation.
kmguru
Staff member
There could be a whole new paradigm to this incarnation and soul stuff. It is more likely that there is another level up from ours in heirarchy that has a consciousness unlike ours. The interaction between that level and our level is what we crudely perceive as the incarnation or soul thing. It is like your brain verses your blood. Each one needs the other and new blood cells come from bone marrow....
This is the Essence of all Religions...
How does this implies in the Dharma (I want your point of view...
)?There are books written focused on the Nature of the Universe and how it works and others focused in our relationship with the Universe. It's just that. There is no conflict.
Love,
Nelson
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There are no Religions. There is just a difference in how to explain the world and the Universe.
There is only ONE Religion.
And this Religion is called...
LOVE
Love,
Nelson
There is only ONE Religion.
And this Religion is called...
LOVE
Love,
Nelson
Can't argue with that.
Love.
Jan Ardena.
Jan Ardena,
Finally someone spoke up!!
Jan... there is another thread where I'm trying to say that... and I'm being attacked... as usual...
So... if you want to discuss that there...
The name of the thread is "The Truth is a Paradox!!".
See ya!
Love,
Nelson
Finally someone spoke up!!
Jan... there is another thread where I'm trying to say that... and I'm being attacked... as usual...
So... if you want to discuss that there...
The name of the thread is "The Truth is a Paradox!!".
See ya!
Love,
Nelson