Religion and women.

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Otherwise it’s just you blathering on about how you hate religion and the Bible:rolleyes:

That is unkind but I accept I can rattle on..I am old alone and lonely what would you expect as to blathering what are your thoughts on post 138...a Christian who does not hate religion or the bible...is he just blathering showing his hate for religion and the bible...how is it that even when a Christian can see the problem you choose to ignore it and do your best to sidetrack the thread by getting folk to bite and the playing nail me if you can?

Alex
 
Yes. Alex is accusing religion and Christianity of teaching men to treat women like dirt, or something just as dumb.

It is not me alone, in fact my drift has been to present links to others saying what you try and present as entirely my idea....

How can you call it dumb when the links tell the story I offer...tell me how you regard the author referred to in post 138.

That man is a Christian, he comments in much the same way as I have suggested but he goes further to point out that all the guilty folk ignore the teachings of Jesus...what I am advocating is very much in line with the teaching of Jesus ...you may have the ignorance to claim I am saying something dumb but will you now say that on these matters Jesus was also dumb.

It would seem that you can't call these matters dumb without implying Jesus is dumb....do you think Jesus is dumb?

Alex
 
. Trying to determine whether the failures of Christian traditions to address sexism and misogyny implicates Christianity, itself, or the culture, at large, is kind of a futile endeavor.

I think like others you have not looked at the links but if you look at post 138 and read the article it shows at least one Christian sees a problem and is trying to mobilise folk on the issue.

That author is not the only Christian talking that way and a Google shows I am not the only person banging their gums.

I do think it is difficult for most folk to realise how crazy some folk around them are..as I said I not only dealt with domestic issues when in private practice but I spent time in the Family Law Courts and I can assure you the stories outlined in the affidavits of victims pointed to an extremely high proportion of men who cited their god given right over the wife when abusing her or bashing her...like I saw this stuff day in day out...terrible stories as I said told by the affidavits of victims..not as DMOE seems to think of men appearing before the court and claiming a god given right..no but in reading an affidavit of a victim, as Lawyers insist..as the rules of evidence insist..an affidavit is written "he said I said" direct quotes..I have read enough to know the problem is not imaginary...I know what thousands of men said....their actual words presented by the wife in her affidavits.

Probably the fact that i am the messenger is why folk dont say..wow is that right...who here has read just one affidavit from a victim...I have read thoisands...the research linked to here I know from personal experience is not some people with a grudge against christianity..religion in general...

I am not saying every case involved Christian men citing god but enough to stand out and suggest a pattern.

Alex
 
it is not and never has been about men using the bible to escape responsibility
Do tell?
So, the impetus for you starting this Thread, Alex, had nothing at all to do with you trying to absolve paddoboy of responsibility for his seemingly Sexist, disrespectful actions and behaviour towards women because "he was raised a catholic and clearly they radiate a total disrespect for women..."?
Yes I want to blame the church and my evidence that they deserve blame can be found in the various quotes from church leaders I gathered to support my claim...now one could say..the reason Paddo is this way is because he was raised a catholic and clearly they radiate a total disrespect for women...in fact let's us ask just how folks behaviour would be guided as to respect for women given just the quotes I provided above.
Meh...maybe I made all that up when I was trying to read minds...eh, Alex?

So, Yeah, Alex...you got me...pegged me perfectly...just me being "clearly desperate to catch up in the point score"...just keep telling yourself that...
Tell you what, Alex...I will even go so far as to Quote you so at least this one time it will not be you having to go to the trouble of typing it repeatedly just to convince yourself that it is true...
Look you are clearly desperate to catch up in the point score but this sentence is wrong for so many reasons..it is a hopelessly poor parrallel..it is not and never has been about men using the bible to escape responsibility it is entirely about the fact that the church treats women badly, that the bible has many verses that are outright sexist and very very wrong, and it is no excuse to say but look at the nice things...do you think these irrational men referred to in the research are capable of rationality if they seize upon sections that says they are master but ignore the good bits...
 
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I think like others you have not looked at the links but if you look at post 138 and read the article it shows at least one Christian sees a problem and is trying to mobilise folk on the issue.
???

How on earth can you determine that a person has not read certain material based upon the very absence of a response to said material?

I read post #138 and, by and large, do not disagree with the content. The writing, however, that's another matter entirely:
Christianity has a history...
For fuck's sake, that's just lazy--how do editors not flag this shit?

However, like I said, for the most part I do not dispute the content. My objection (the writing itself, aside), if I have to have one would only be that it's hardly a timely or original thesis--I mean, it's hardly as though there was much there that I (and, I suspect, many here) haven't really encountered before. And perhaps, the buck passing, to which I allude in the response which you quoted.

I do think it is difficult for most folk to realise how crazy some folk around them are..as I said I not only dealt with domestic issues when in private practice but I spent time in the Family Law Courts and I can assure you the stories outlined in the affidavits of victims pointed to an extremely high proportion of men who cited their god given right over the wife when abusing her or bashing her...like I saw this stuff day in day out...terrible stories as I said told by the affidavits of victims..not as DMOE seems to think of men appearing before the court and claiming a god given right..no but in reading an affidavit of a victim, as Lawyers insist..as the rules of evidence insist..an affidavit is written "he said I said" direct quotes..I have read enough to know the problem is not imaginary...I know what thousands of men said....their actual words presented by the wife in her affidavits.
But again, what informs what? It's foolish to think that contemporary Christendom is not reflective of the culture of which it is a part. And yet, at the same time, I've always conceded that misogyny and human exceptionalism are by far the most problematic aspects of Christianity, and Abrahamic traditions, generally. I simply don't see much value anymore in debating whether or not such are intrinsic and integral. Short answer: probably. But, given that said traditions do adapt and evolve and that hermeneutics (in the secular sense) is borrowed from theology (and not the other way round), the answer is also necessarily an iffy "probably."

Also, at one time, study of such texts formed a not inconsiderable part of one of my prior "professional" lives; consequently, I'm disinclined towards discussing such matters anymore. Granted, I was looking at and for other things--Neoplatonism and suchlike--but no matter what your focus, the political and sociological are bound to intrude. (Further, much past the 14th century was of considerably less interest to me.)

I think that perhaps you may be reading too much into what people do not say here. Apart from Jan perhaps, I think that few posters within this thread would be dismissive of Christianity's role in perpetuating misogyny.
 
Do tell?
So, you starting this Thread had nothing at all to do with you trying to absolve paddoboy of responsibility for his seemingly Sexist, disrespectful actions and behaviour towards women because "he was raised a catholic and clearly they radiate a total disrespect for women..."?

No it was not.

This is my main game..when I threw in the comment about Paddo is the way he is because he was raised a catholic that was an after thought ..................( probably because I think about the problem of domestic violence and the deaths that no one seems to care about, a great deal and have done so since a boy) and very silly to say what I said because the implication was I had found Paddo guilty....I held no view othercthan justice needcto be present at the witch hunt......and you probably have not got it even now my defense of Paddo was to point out that bullying and abuse is not warranted against anyone, that in order to find someone guilty you need evidence which would have been testimony from the woman involved and that you can't say in the case of James claim, "we know what you mean by lubricate" the sense Paddo used the word was not as James made out...fair play, evidence, not lieing to make your point ..that sort of thing.

I say that this thread is about what it is about...you must realise by my many posts wherein I mention my experiences going back to childhood that this is bigger than Paddo...

Yeah, Alex...you got me...pegged me perfectly...just me being "clearly desperate to catch up in the point score"...just keep telling yourself that...
Tell you what, Alex...I will even go so far as to Quote you so at least this one time it will not be you having to go to the trouble of typing it...

So what is your problem?

What you quote me as saying seems a rather decent summation.

I have made various claims and backed them up.

Really what do you want?..it seems that you are not interested in any discussion at all.

If you have a problem say what it is..my opinion is that you hate Paddo, an opinion I have no doubt I could back up with evidence if I cared to go through all your interactions with him..certainly when ever you have come into a thread with him in it you don't discuss anything..your approach is always it seems to have something critical to say of the person and not the matter being discussed..dont you think that shows thru?
Its more than my imagination..your behaviour is on record for all to see.

..just like here and You concentrate on dealing out usually repetative adhominims, now I don't care what you think about my opinion of you...that is my opinion based on the way you play the game..your history of having nothing to say other than use any thread for a personal attack...and if you want me to withdraw it I may if I feel you have taken what I say on board.

.and this hate of Paddo, and I presume envy of my life, has clearly blinded you as to what this thread is all about, if one acknowledges your hate for Paddo it goes a long way to understanding why you can not accept any point I make pertaining to the thrust of this thread ,not withstanding everything I present is well evidenced with links to folk who are talking sensibly about the matter and clearly you because of your hate for Paddo and I suspect myself, as perhaps suggested by taking out of context my telling of my experiences and why I enjoy a confidence which must get to you given your boasting claims..and I can see how my tales of adventure would really get under the skin of a hateful person such as I now believe you to be...

So why don't you try and forget Paddo and get on top of this unhealthy obsession you have with him and your apparent envy of me...

You made mistakes I pulled you up..you near chocked getting out an apology and then pulled it back price by piece proving once and for all that it is you who is not genuine in the least.

Now exactly what problems do you have with the claims in this thread.

First I guess you seem to think that the church does not really exist as you stupidly claim it's not the Church it's the men..on and how tiresome writting men in small letters..what intelligence did you think you were putting forward with that display? The church is a separate legal entity capable of issuing policy.

Next you won't accept that the problem exists simply because you rattle a mantra that a real man would not do that...yet it's going on and if you really did read all the links you could not stick with such an unintelligent mantra.

Do you disagree that the bible has many passages that talk about all women as second rate.?

Do you agree that various spiritual men have made statements that clearly put down women as per the quotes that I provided?

Do you think that telling a victim to pray that the abuse stops or to pray to have God give the strength to endure is good advice? I note that is the advice given by priests and ministers...it is covered in the links.

Do you think you have the right to judge me at all? Do you think you have the right to call me disingenious and have a Sortta private chat with another member as if I was not in the room.

You have dug yourself a big hole and all because in my opinion you have such a hate for Paddo you just can not think clearly..

I am not mind reading but I can see you in my minds eye..reading the latest post from me , turning red with rage, dribbling over the keyboard, bashing out the first stupid thing that comes into your head and finally hitting the send button thinking that will show him...

Now that is only my opinion based on watching you for a long time and imagining how a hateful person would respond sitting at their computer.

..I give you encouragement and you throw it in my face..and I bet you don't even remember and then your hatred has you delivering adhom after adhom as though you are somehow clever...

Now with all that out of the way I will say this to you..I like you, I can accept for what ever reason you have a perpetual chip on your shoulder, your obsession with both me and Paddo does not hurt me or him..it hurts you..and I don't want that for you. I would like to see you cheerful and happy.

Now why don't you start again..have a reset and look at this thread without indulging a delusional belief that it is about Paddo...read again of my experiences, in private practice, in the Family Ckurt, as a kid at the Police Station, my mate who had to sleep at our house...but for goodness sake get over this hate and envy for me and Paddo...as I said not for us but for you...when you are better I wont hold any thing against you.
Alex
 
No it was not.
Like I said, Alex...
So, Yeah, Alex...you got me...pegged me perfectly...just me being "clearly desperate to catch up in the point score"...just keep telling yourself that...
The impecable, infallable ability that you possess to personally accuse someone and proceed to personally determine their guilt with out being in any way, shape or form judgemental does not go unnoticed, Alex.

You can be certain that no one noticed that you were defending paddoboy against Bullying and Abuse in a Thread that only existed because of what a Moderator described as "A typically misogynistic comment from" paddoboy.



You are truly remarkable, and you might find it hard to believe but no one on this Forum noticed that you posited and evidently in your estimation at least, proved(?) that Sexism was the product of Religion and Hollywood.

Keep telling yourself that no one noticed that on Jan 12, 2021 you Posted :
Yes I want to blame the church and my evidence that they deserve blame can be found in the various quotes from church leaders I gathered to support my claim...now one could say..the reason Paddo is this way is because he was raised a catholic and clearly they radiate a total disrespect for women...

Meh...it went completely unoticed by everyone that a short time later, on Jan 12, 2021 you Started this Thread.

So...yeah, Alex, rest assured that no one could even remotely infer that any impetus for starting this Thread had anything at all to do with you trying to absolve paddoboy of responsibility for his seemingly Sexist, disrespectful actions and behaviour towards women because "he was raised a catholic and clearly they radiate a total disrespect for women..."?

But the most important thing to remember Alex, is that NOT ONE PERSON in this Thread has disagreed with the notion that the Church and Religion is Sexist, nor has anyone tried to argue that the Church and Religion is NOT Sexist...

Now we come to the Biggie, Alex!
Do all you can, utilize all of the remarkable abilities that make you the Envy of so many, to refuse to see that only a Mysoginistic, Sexist, Disrepectful man(?) would use the excuse that the Teachings of other Mysoginistic, Sexist, Disrepectful men(?) would or could or should absolve them of any personal responsibility for Mistreating, Abusing or Taking the Life of their Wife!

So, yeah Alex, stay smug and remember...I(dmoe) am the one that is wrong and everything I(dmoe) Post is driven by nothing but my Hatred, Jealousy, Envy, Dislike, etc...for paddoboy and yourself, Alex...
...just keep telling yourself that, Alex...make it your Mantra...
...dmoe is the one that is wrong and everything dmoe Posts is driven by nothing but his Hatred, Jealousy, Envy, Dislike, etc...for paddoboy and Alex... ..dmoe is the one that is wrong and everything dmoe Posts is driven by nothing but his Hatred, Jealousy, Envy, Dislike, etc...for paddoboy and Alex....dmoe is the one that is wrong and everything dmoe Posts is driven by nothing but his Hatred, Jealousy, Envy, Dislike, etc...for paddoboy and Alex.....dmoe is the one that is wrong and everything dmoe Posts is driven by nothing but his Hatred, Jealousy, Envy, Dislike, etc...for paddoboy and Alex...Ad Infinitum...
 
Wegs, as a woman do you think you would accept a man who acted as though men and women were equal?
You should stop beating around the bush and say clearly what you think the problem is with men and women being "equal".

If your complaint is that you think "equal" means the same thing as "identical in every respect" or "physically identical", then I suggest (again) that you read more widely and educate yourself about other contexts in which the term "equality" is typically used (especially with reference to people).

If, on the other hand, you have a problem with ideas like "equal rights" or "equal opportunity", or whatever, you should spell out exactly what your complaint is, rather than mincing words.
 
Years ago, people used to actually discuss things here. Now it’s full of snowflakes. If they don’t like what you’re saying, they simply cancel you. A complete lack of integrity.
Paaaaaaaaaathetic!!!!
That reads like a Trump tweet. What happened to you, man?
 
If your complaint is that you think "equal" means the same thing as "identical in every respect" or "physically identical", then I suggest (again) that you read more widely and educate yourself about other contexts in which the term "equality" is typically used (especially with reference to people).
I ain’t complaining.
I’m discussing.
Is it ok to do that here?
If, on the other hand, you have a problem with ideas like "equal rights" or "equal opportunity", or whatever, you should spell out exactly what your complaint is, rather than mincing words.
Thanks for the heads up
 
The impecable, infallable ability that you possess to personally accuse someone and proceed to personally determine their guilt with out being in any way, shape or form judgemental does not go unnoticed, Alex.

Who noticed?
Should I care?
The way I figure it those who think I am supporting Paddo as opposed to standing against bullying abuse lieing ignoring requirements for evidence the need for subjectivity, wont believe what I say... look at you..I tell you stuff and you ignore my answer.
Why should I worry?

..or is " does not go un noticed " a threat that some secret body will deal with me...

You can be certain that no one noticed that you were defending paddoboy against Bullying and Abuse in a Thread that only existed because of what a Moderator described as "A typically misogynistic comment from" paddoboy.

You are rambling and not being at all clear.

You are truly remarkable

You are not being genuine..you are being sarcastic aren't you?

) that Sexism was the product of Religion and Hollywood

It boils down to culture and the influences upon it...but you are not making any points.

Keep telling yourself that no one noticed that on Jan 12, 2021 you Posted :

What is your point? did you read what I said in my last post to you.. ?

So...yeah, Alex, rest assured that no one could even remotely infer that any impetus for starting this Thread had anything at all to do with you trying to absolve paddoboy of responsibility for his seemingly Sexist, disrespectful actions and behaviour towards women because "he was raised a catholic and clearly they radiate a total disrespect for women..."?

So you are calling me a liar.

Well you are off my Christmas card list.

Where were you when the others were lieing?

You did not for one second take in what I said.?
I repeat it was not about Paddo ...you are as bad as James...dont you dare tell me what I was not thinking.

Now we come to the Biggie, Alex!
Do all you can, utilize all of the remarkable abilities that make you the Envy of so many, to refuse to see that only a Mysoginistic, Sexist, Disrepectful man(?) would use the excuse that the Teachings of other Mysoginistic, Sexist, Disrepectful men(?) would or could or should absolve them of any personal responsibility for Mistreating, Abusing or Taking the Life of their Wife!

Your are as thick as a post. ..it is not about absolving them it is about the church.. now you have got me shouting and being rude..I know I can only blame myself but honestly you just wont listen...how many times do I need to say that. ...I get it you are just being playful and not serious..ok...you little devil.

stay smug

Me smug????

You must be joking..or your hate and bitterness at play .of course you are ok ng as I have done nothing to cause you to think that way have I?

..smug if anyone who is smug it is you...another one of those problems you have that you see in others.. got it.

I will work with you because as you know I am a compassionate guy.

I am confident and happy is that a crime in your made up reality?
Tell me you were just having a bad moment...

I(dmoe) am the one that is wrong and everything I(dmoe) Post is driven by nothing but my Hatred, Jealousy, Envy, Dislike, etc...for paddoboy and yourself, Alex...

You are a big man to admit that DMOE I am both surprised and impressed.

Alex...make it your Mantra...
...dmoe is the one that is wrong and everything dmoe Posts is driven by nothing but his Hatred, Jealousy, Envy, Dislike, etc...for paddoboy and Alex... ..dmoe is the one that is wrong and everything dmoe Posts is driven by nothing but his Hatred, Jealousy, Envy, Dislike, etc...for paddoboy and Alex....dmoe is the one that is wrong and everything dmoe Posts is driven by nothing but his Hatred, Jealousy, Envy, Dislike, etc...for paddoboy and Alex.....dmoe is the one that is wrong and everything dmoe Posts is driven by nothing but his Hatred, Jealousy, Envy, Dislike, etc...for paddoboy and Alex...Ad Infinitum.

There you go trying to become the center of attention...I dont think you are always wrong only the times that you are. ...which is only..what was the score..2 times?
I dont remember but not many times.
Stop being so hard and on yourself.

Now you are a clever sausage I will give you that..you throw down all this stuff laced with sarcasm in an effort to get me to get flustered..wont work....If you are poisened with hate I must forgive that..more likely a clever ploy ...but you did well, certainly no push over..however presumably me being older and wiser see thru your subtifuge...

You did not address any of the matters that I put to you..I almost did not notice..but notice I did..

You went on about other stuff so I would not notice.

Those matters are what is relevant here ...not your opinion that I am smug or any of your confusing prattle and I ask that you address the matters in my last post...your answers to those are all that is important, you need to get over your hurt feelings and desire to get back at me and address of those matters.

Now if you can do that and stop taking it all so personally we may get somewhere.

If you have a point to make against me try presenting it clearly without all the side salad and I will address any matter you wish... you must know if you think I have done something wrong then you are clearly under a misunderstanding which I can clear up for you..and know that if you show that I have indeed been wrong I will happily agree and make any necessary apology as any gentleman should.

I do not know what your problem is unless you become calm and rational and present it without silly attempts at sarcasm.

But if I give you an answer such as I did about opening this thread you better take my answer as that is in my head as what is in yours is not relevant.

Now dont forget address the matters I put to you on the last post to you.

You do know if you dont you will look bad and I dont want to that for you...I want to see you happy cheerful and well.. and honestly..I am being genuine...I dont like dealing with people the way I have been forced to do...but if folk what to play silly games I will reluctantly go along...

Alex
 
Jan Ardena:

Do you believe that there are different roles naturally prescribed to men, and the same for women? Or do you think “men’s role” is merely a human construct, and in reality, there are no designated roles?
Naturally prescribed? What does that mean?

Are you asking whether we believe that women and men are constrained by their "natural" biological differences?

It seems like a strange question. I believe that women, but not men, are able to bear children, due to biological constraints, for instance. I'm sure you also believe that.

If you want to describe those biological constraints as "roles" that are "naturally prescribed", I guess you're welcome to do that.

On the other hand, maybe you're not referring to biological constraints, and you think that society or culture imposes roles on men and women. If that's the case, I don't see what "nature" has to do with it. You ought to explain what you mean. Try to be clear.

Would you prefer your husband, or boyfriend not to view you in anyway, at any time as a sex object, because you feel it undermines your personhood?
I think the problem comes when one is viewed primarily or habitually as a sex object. Don't you?

How is it for you?
Men don’t grow babies (in the natural way), so women have more value in that sense.
Value? For whom?

But I am talking from a natural perspective, not a societal one.
Okay. So it's all about biological constraints.

I think we can agree that men and women are constrained, to some extent, by biology. Are we done, then?

Do you think it is okay for men to be emotional (like women)?
Yes. Don't you?

Man naturally heads over his wife and family, and his wife naturally understands that as she now has a child to develop.
Man "heads over" his wife and family? What do you mean? He sets himself up as the leader, or dictator? How is that "natural"? Please explain.

It is better if the man provides for his family, so that his wife can be a full time mother, for the sake of the child, and the structure in which the child is to develop.
Better for whom?

Maybe there's an argument to be made somewhere in that, but you're not making it, so far.
That’s what is meant by “submit”.
Not that the woman must obey every demand. That is totalitarianism, and the family structure becomes less than ideal.
Wives must "submit" to their husbands' tyranny in the family? This is what you advocate? Why must they submit.

What's your "ideal" family structure, Jan? Are you married? Does your wife "submit" to your dominance and commands? Or are you talking about something else?

Emotional ups and downs, is not what I was referring to. I meant just straight up emotion.
Reacting irrationally to situations, becoming angry over situations that could be resolved without resorting to anger.
You speak as if you think emotion is a bad thing, in general. Why is that?

My impression is that you're assigning "rationality" as a "male" trait, and "emotionality" as a "female" one, and trying to imply that the former is superior to the latter, with the implication that the male is superior to the female.

Or am I mistaken?
Shedding tears for the loss of a loved one, is called grieving, it is a distinctive, and natural emotion. It doesn’t mean the man is an emotional man. After the shedding of tears, a logical man becomes restored, and does not carry that emotion into his everyday life.
It's okay for men to grieve, as long as they don't "carry it" into everyday life? What do you mean?

Emotions in men is destructive.
I would have thought they were unavoidable. What are you, Jan - a rock?

I don’t see the point of paying a women less, for doing the same work, or undermining a person because she is a women.
So what's all this "emotion is bad, rationality is good" nonsense about?

Women can evaluate, and be rational, just as a man can be emotional, and irrational. But in my experience, women always become emotional at some point, no matter how smart they are.
And men don't? And therefore men are superior to women?

What are you saying?

When a man gets emotion, and irrational, it never ends good. It’s destructive. We have seen what happens when men get emotional and irrational. All hell breaks loose.
You know, emotions include things like happiness, joy, ecstasy, empathy, as well as the "bad" ones you seem fixated about. Why would all hell break loose if a man became too happy, say?

We now live in a society where women can be as emotional, even irrational, as they like. And men can be just as emotional as women. Now take a look at society.
What do you want to do, Jan? Outlaw emotion?

But some would have you believe you have no innate knowledge. It is with that same knowledge we know that God Is, therefore we are.
You're just pretending you "just know" that your God Is, Jan. You always have been. When will you be honest with yourself?

Now is such a great time to look at ourselves, because we can see evil actually exists, not only from innate knowledge, but external knowledge as well. If evil is real, then goodness is real.
Evil and good are in what people do. Reification is unhelpful.

How is saying women are generally emotional, and adding that there is nothing wrong in that, discriminating against, or stereotyping women.
That's not a problem, although your denial that men are just as emotional is a little bizarre.

Implying that women are less than men because they are emotional would be discriminating against women. But obviously you're not doing that, are you Jan?

I would like to add that men who are emotional, are like women.
So men and women are alike. Okay. What's your point, exactly?

It sounds to me like you believe that being "like women" would be a bad thing for men to be. What aspects of being "like women" are bad, according to you, Jan? And why?

You're not being very clear.
Maybe that will get me banned from snowflake county, but it’s true.
Snowflake county?

A child brought up by a loving mother and father, is nearly always better off than single parent children, particularly if the single parent is the mother.
Better off in what ways? Again, there may be some kind of point buried in there somewhere, but you're not making it.

Men and women are different. I don’t know if you regard that as sexist or not, but it is an observation.
A couple of hundred posts later and you're back to the same Captain Obvious statement you started with.

So what?

You sound a bit ... emotional ... Jan.
 
Here is an article that as Jan would say seeks to smear christianity but it is well worth reading.https://christiansforsocialaction.org/resource/churchs-oppression-women/

Note who the author is ..his background
Women
  • 23 October 2018
  • By Stephen Mattson

The Great Reckoning: Surviving a Christianity That Looks Nothing Like Christ by Stephen Mattson / Herald Press 2018
American Christianity has been a horrible place for women. It ignores them, abuses them, assaults them, objectifies them, oppresses them, and then attempts to theologically rationalize it all as being “Biblical” and “holy.” The Church has been a willing co-conspirator in the widespread affliction of women.

Regarding the most important issues related to family, education, careers, healthcare, finances, politics, safety, and even spirituality, Christianity has continuously prioritized men at the expense of women. To question this status quo is to be branded a “troublemaker,” “heretic,” and other terms too demeaning to even utter. This toxic religiosity, often branded as “Christianity,” has socialized its adherents to dehumanize women related to every aspect of our society.

Christianity has a history of manipulating the Bible to reinforce patriarchy, in which men are seen as spiritual leaders and women are to submit to their authority. This has resulted in the smothering of women’s gifts of pastoral leadership and ministry. Women are intentionally excluded from roles of authority, and their truth, wisdom, and experiences have been unfairly dismissed.

Christianity has a history of manipulating the Bible to reinforce patriarchy.

Christendom is still predominantly built on male-dominated authority structures. Only nine percent of Protestant American pastors are women. The overall ratio of women spiritual leaders is probably far less when you consider that the Roman Catholic Church has yet to officially ordain women. None of this takes into consideration the countless “pastors’ wives” who work (often in addition to their paid professions) in ministry roles yet receive little to no compensation.

Women make up about 50 percent of all medical school graduates, 60 percent of all accountants, and 67 percent of all psychologists. Yet a significant portion of Christian churches and denominations still forbid them from becoming pastors and ordained ministers, banning them from various positions of leadership.

Furthermore, Christendom has remained regrettably silent in the face of the epidemic of harassment, abuse, and violence against women. One in three women has been a victim of domestic violence. One in six women will, sometime during her life, be the victim of rape or attempted rape. More than half of all women have been sexually harassed at their workplace, and a staggering 87 percent of women between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five say they’ve experienced some form of harassment.

Christian leaders, on the whole, have failed to address the abuse and assault experienced by more than half of all Christian believers. When was the last time your congregation dedicated a sermon or service to sexual harassment, assault, or abuse? If you are fortunate enough to have experienced such a service, you’re the exception to the rule. Despite attending all sorts of churches within a variety of denominations and despite sitting through countless sermons, I have not once heard violence against women addressed in any significant capacity. I’ve heard homilies on the Leviathan, the Nephilim, and the dimensions of Noah’s ark; I have not heard a single sermon confronting a problem that affects nearly every woman in every congregation, and around the world.

When was the last time your congregation dedicated a sermon or service to sexual harassment, assault, or abuse?

Instead of taking a proactive approach against sexual assault, harassment, and abuse, Christianity has been complicit in its spread. Rachael Denhollander, the first women to accuse USA Gymnastics team doctor Larry Nassar of sexual abuse, had this to say about churches:

Church is one of the least safe places to acknowledge abuse because the way it is counseled is, more often than not, damaging to the victim. There is an abhorrent lack of knowledge for the damage and devastation that sexual assault brings. It is with deep regret that I say the church is one of the worst places to go for help. That’s a hard thing to say, because I am a very conservative evangelical, but that is the truth. There are very, very few who have ever found true help in the church.

Rather than address this widespread crisis, Christendom has created toxic and unregulated environments in which predatory men (and women) often face no consequences for their actions. Rather than publicly denouncing the perpetrators, large contingents of Christians actually support them, especially if they share similar political and spiritual beliefs. Denhollander says she found little support when she spoke out against her abuser: “Advocacy for sexual assault victims, something I cherished, cost me my church and our closest friends three weeks before I filed my police report,” she said. “I was left alone and isolated. And far worse, it was impacted because when I came out, my sexual assault was wielded like a weapon against me.”

The false spiritual premises of patriarchy provide cover for such actions by abusers and the churches that support them. A deep-rooted misogyny, in which women are emotionally, spiritually, and physically oppressed, lies at the center of much of evangelicalism today. Denhollander’s testimony underscores how presidential candidate Donald Trump could still receive 81 percent of the white evangelical vote, even after voters learned of his ongoing comments about women that are mostly unfit to print.

Instead of believing survivors, Christians blame them. Instead of rebuking the perpetrator, Christians shame those who were assaulted. If sexual abuse or assault happens within a church or involves a parishioner, many faith communities won’t notify law enforcement but rather try to deal with the issue in-house, often under the pretense of “spiritual healing” or “accountability” or “reconciliation.” This leaves victims without justice and culprits without punishment. Saying “I’m sorry” without any reparations is hollow.

Given all these actions against women’s gifts and bodies, the church must be held to account. The church must do better. It is incumbent on the church to attend to the words and actions of Jesus, who treated women as equals, with the respect and love deserved by divine image-bearers of God.

It is incumbent on the church to attend to the words and actions of Jesus, who treated women as equals.

In the immortal words of Dorothy Sayers:

Perhaps it is no wonder that the women were first at the Cradle and last at the Cross. They had never known a man like this Man—there never has been such another. A prophet and teacher who never nagged at them, never flattered or coaxed or patronized; who never made arch jokes about them, never treated them either as ‘The women, God help us!’ or ‘The ladies, God bless them!’; who rebuked without querulousness and praised without condescension; who took their questions and arguments seriously; who never mapped out their sphere for them, never urged them to be feminine or jeered at them for being female; who had no axe to grind and no uneasy male dignity to defend; who took them as he found them and was completely unself-conscious.

Stephen Mattson is a graduate of Moody Bible Institute and is currently on staff at the University of Northwestern, St. Paul. This edited excerpt is taken from his book The Great Reckoning: Surviving a Christianity That Looks Nothing Like Christ (Herald Press, 2018). All rights reserved. Used with permission. Follow Stephen on Twitter.
This guy sounds like a liberal.
He supports BLM, a Marxist organisation that hates God, the nuclear family, and the unborn child. They say and do nothing about the senseless mass killing taking place in the black communities of Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, Washington DC, and more.
He believes that BLM care deeply about black lives.

But...

...Where’s the research?
 
DMOE...

Here is the matters that you missed..I understand you were upset ...

However the following you failed to address
Now exactly what problems do you have with the claims in this thread.

First I guess you seem to think that the church does not really exist as you stupidly claim it's not the Church it's the men..on and how tiresome writting men in small letters..what intelligence did you think you were putting forward with that display? The church is a separate legal entity capable of issuing policy.

Next you won't accept that the problem exists simply because you rattle a mantra that a real man would not do that...yet it's going on and if you really did read all the links you could not stick with such an unintelligent mantra.

Do you disagree that the bible has many passages that talk about all women as second rate.?

Do you agree that various spiritual men have made statements that clearly put down women as per the quotes that I provided?

Do you think that telling a victim to pray that the abuse stops or to pray to have God give the strength to endure is good advice? I note that is the advice given by priests and ministers...it is covered in the links.

Do you think you have the right to judge me at all? Do you think you have the right to call me disingenious and have a Sortta private chat with another member as if I was not in the room.
 
This guy sounds like a liberal.
He supports BLM, a Marxist organisation that hates God, the nuclear family, and the unborn child. They say and do nothing about the senseless mass killing taking place in the black communities of Chicago, Baltimore, Detroit, Washington DC, and more.
He believes that BLM care deeply about black lives.

But...

...Where’s the research?

Thanks for looking Jan...so he has a political axe to grind you say...now it can be discussed..
Do you think he is making stuff up?

Research is one first couple of pages..the links.
You can look just as I would ha e to do..you should have looked in the first place rather than just saying it was all ,lies.
But again thanks for your comments
I must go...you seem much better today.
Alex
 
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