Reporting on Gods Visit

[Enmos]

Maybe he provided the tools and expected you to do your own homework.

Omniscience just went out the window..

 

[Lori_7]

But meeting god will make my flaws go away, you said. A person with no flaws would be perfect, right ?

development is one thing...perfection another. you can learn without being a perfect person. to me, perfection = sinless = immortal.

Why did he make us like this then ? He apparently wants perfect humans.. he could have made us perfect. He can make us understand 'the difference' right now if he wanted too. What's with the sadism ?

so we can learn the difference. god doesn't want us to commune with him and to love because we're forced to, and abide by laws we don't understand. god wants us to do this voluntarily, because it's what we want, because we know the difference. remember in the garden, the fall of man was brought about by our desire to know good and evil. now we know...

or do we?

some people refuse to see the most obvious things. i have found a clarity of sight and of vision with god that i could not have achieved on my own. i also have hope to overcome evil and to achieve eternal life in communion with him.

 

[S.A.M.]

Not at all, just because I know how to teach you and expect you to study and learn, I can still recognise that you won't. Probably I could strike you dead and this would provide a good impetus, but if I had to break the law everytime I had an idiot for a student, there wouldn't be much of a point in the exercise.

 

[Enmos]

so we can learn the difference. god doesn't want us to commune with him and to love because we're forced to, and abide by laws we don't understand. god wants us to do this voluntarily, because it's what we want, because we know the difference. remember in the garden, the fall of man was brought about by our desire to know good and evil. now we know...

or do we?

And we aren't forced now ? If we don't believe in god we''ll just burn in hell.
So he doesn't want for us to be forced to live in peace in heaven, instead he figures that we're better off burning in hell ??

some people refuse to see the most obvious things. i have found a clarity of sight and of vision with god that i could not have achieved on my own. i also have hope to overcome evil and to achieve eternal life in communion with him.

If some people cannot recognize god, who's fault is that ? Is he going to fix this fault ?

 

[Enmos]

Not at all, just because I know how to teach you and expect you to study and learn, I can still recognise that you won't. Probably I could strike you dead and this would provide a good impetus, but if I had to break the law everytime I had an idiot for a student, there wouldn't be much of a point in the exercise.

The analogy doesn't fit. God MADE us, and just so you know God is infallible, so he purposely made some of us so we wouldn't recognize him.
Yet, if we don't recognize him before death, we'll burn in hell for it.
Is God a sadist ?

 

[Lori_7]

And we aren't forced now ? If we don't believe in god we''ll just burn in hell.
So he doesn't want for us to be forced to live in peace in heaven, instead he figures that we're better off burning in hell ??

this is the way i see it...

if you were to extract all of the good from evil in this world, and separate the two entirely...you would have heaven and hell. so now, you have a little taste of heaven and a little taste of hell. what do you choose? what do you want?

If some people cannot recognize god, who's fault is that ? Is he going to fix this fault ?

it's not about an aptitude. it's about a desire. we're not talking about some not being capable, but some not wanting to know. if you want to know then you WILL know. you don't decide how or when, but you do decide if that's a thing you're willing to face if that truth presents itself. god won't have some problem making himself known to you. with me, it was a progression, not one overwhelming event that knocked my socks off. little things that added up in time, and made me seek more and more. as i sought more, i got more, until i couldn't deny it anymore. THEN he put the whammy on my ass.

 

[fiicere]

I have had the pleasure of an invitation from one of our distinguished forum members for god to visit me. It is currently unknown as to what form the visitation will take, but it has been assured to me that I most certainly will know. I have also promised this forum member that I will defend any and all arguments they present thereafter as a result of the visit.

Of course, at that point, I will be a theist and a believer in god.

So, from time to time, I'll provide any unusual events that may have happened to me in order to discuss whether or not the event was the visitation. I'm hoping our distinguished forum member will chime in when the time is ripe.

At this time, there is nothing unusual to report, other than a small horse singing, "Hard Days Night" in a German accent.

Heh, I think you're off by a couple thousand years...

God seems reluctant to make personal visitations of late.

 

[Enmos]

this is the way i see it...

if you were to extract all of the good from evil in this world, and separate the two entirely...you would have heaven and hell. so now, you have a little taste of heaven and a little taste of hell. what do you choose? what do you want?

When you say world do you really mean humankind ? Because I don't see anything wrong with the world other than that there are humans on it.

it's not about an aptitude. it's about a desire. we're not talking about some not being capable, but some not wanting to know. if you want to know then you WILL know. you don't decide how or when, but you do decide if that's a thing you're willing to face if that truth presents itself. god won't have some problem making himself known to you. with me, it was a progression, not one overwhelming event that knocked my socks off. little things that added up in time, and made me seek more and more. as i sought more, i got more, until i couldn't deny it anymore. THEN he put the whammy on my ass.

It doesn't matter, God made us. God is omniscient so he knew beforehand some people would have no desire to get to know him.
He created us this way on purpose while he could have created us differently so that we'd want to know.

 

[Lori_7]

When you say world do you really mean humankind ? Because I don't see anything wrong with the world other than that there are humans on it.

Yes, that's what I mean.

It doesn't matter, God made us. God is omniscient so he knew beforehand some people would have no desire to get to know him.
He created us this way on purpose while he could have created us differently so that we'd want to know.

If you had the means and opportunity, would you ever want to force someone to love you or want to know you or commune with you?

 

[Adstar]

there's no doubt about that.

Adstar,

where the hell have you been man?!?!?!

I have been here for years. Didn't you see me?

i know you've heard me out here..."i know god, i know god, i know god!"

did you think i was joking? lol

Well know God to a certain extent, as i know God to a certain extent. We are both his works in progress i guess.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Originally Posted by AdstarPride, greed, arrogance, fear, envy, vanity. I guess you could add a few more there. ”

Posted by Enmos
Is that why you want to love people ??

No i said these are some of the things that we have within ourselves that get in the way of us loving others.

Originally Posted by AdstarBecause deep down we want to. Because deep down we know that all those other emotions that get in the way and frustrate your desire to be loving are wrong.One has to ask oneself. What do i desire? ”

Posted by Enmos
If you already have it, you can stop wanting for it.
I wanted a particular new car. I bought it. Now I'm not wanting it anymore because I already have it.

It's not about me wanting it, it is about me wanting you to have it. Its about God wanting you to have it. I don't come here posting over these years to get something, I came here to give something.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

no offense Q. i just really want this for you both. i just wonder if what i want for you trumps what you want for you for vice versa. i want to make sure we're all on the same page.

Exactly.

Does our desire for them and our relationship with God trump their desire?

I don't believe i can desire someone into belief. I don't believe it is the will of God to allow such a thing. In the end the final leap of faith must be taken by the individual. We can encourage with all our desire, but in the end they got to take that jump.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Lori_7]

I have been here for years. Didn't you see me?



Well know God to a certain extent, as i know God to a certain extent. We are both his works in progress i guess.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Adstar,

God has put me on my face. On my face, begging and pleading for mercy, and begging and pleading for more at the exact same time, because I know I asked for it.

God has turned the bible into my life or my life into the bible. I can't even tell the difference anymore. I have become one with god and his word through experience, and I am so profoundly grateful.

I think we're coming to the same place from 2 different directions, and that's cool. As long as we end up in that same place.

I'll see you there brother.

Cheers.

 

[Adstar]

And we aren't forced now ? If we don't believe in god we''ll just burn in hell.

Look at the world of faith around you? Look at the numbers leaving belief in God? You claim a forced belief, but if indeed God wanted to force people to believe then rest assured every person today would believe.

The lake of fire has no power to force people to believe. The evidence in that come is the millions who have rejected God and do not believe.

One thing the lake of fire does do it gives greater motivation to those who believe in it to go out and give the message that saves. But again it can only have this effect on those who already believe and have a desire to save others.

If some people cannot recognize god, who's fault is that ? Is he going to fix this fault ?

People have the flexibility within them to recognize God. They know both Good and Evil. The point is what is their desire? where does it lay?

Are people locked like mindless automations into their desires? Or can their desires change as a result of gaining wisdom.

People do change their desires and in that fact i can have hope for even the most rabid of God haters out there.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[swarm]

so now, you have a little taste of heaven and a little taste of hell. what do you choose? what do you want?

Neither.

 

[Enmos]

Yes, that's what I mean.




If you had the means and opportunity, would you ever want to force someone to love you or want to know you or commune with you?

God is omniscient, so he knew beforehand that people would believe in him, i.e. it was predetermined that people would believe in God. And God had everything to do with that.
So theist or atheist you really have no choice either way, everything that will happen to you is already determined.

 

[Enmos]

We are both his works in progress i guess.

What about me ?

 

[Enmos]

No i said these are some of the things that we have within ourselves that get in the way of us loving others.

But the question was: "If you don't love people already, why do you want it?"

It's not about me wanting it, it is about me wanting you to have it. Its about God wanting you to have it. I don't come here posting over these years to get something, I came here to give something.

Ok.
Because God wanted you to, or because you wanted to ?

 

[Enmos]

Look at the world of faith around you? Look at the numbers leaving belief in God? You claim a forced belief, but if indeed God wanted to force people to believe then rest assured every person today would believe.

So he doesn't want me to believe in him, and because of that I don't ?
I have a hard time seeing the justice in throwing me into hellfire because God doesn't want me to believe in him.

The lake of fire has no power to force people to believe. The evidence in that come is the millions who have rejected God and do not believe.

One thing the lake of fire does do it gives greater motivation to those who believe in it to go out and give the message that saves. But again it can only have this effect on those who already believe and have a desire to save others.

I have serious doubts about that. I think that hell was originally made up to scare the unfaithful into believing.

People have the flexibility within them to recognize God. They know both Good and Evil. The point is what is their desire? where does it lay?

Are people locked like mindless automations into their desires? Or can their desires change as a result of gaining wisdom.

People do change their desires and in that fact i can have hope for even the most rabid of God haters out there.

Who put the desire there ? Yes it may change, but it's all predetermined.

 

[scifes]

So he doesn't want me to believe in him, and because of that I don't ?
I have a hard time seeing the justice in throwing me into hellfire because God doesn't want me to believe in him.


I have serious doubts about that. I think that hell was originally made up to scare the unfaithful into believing.


Who put the desire there ? Yes it may change, but it's all predetermined.

choice:

Choice consists of the mental process of thinking involved with the process of judging the merits of multiple options and selecting one of them for action. Some simple examples include deciding whether to get up in the morning or go back to sleep, or selecting a given route for a journey. More complex examples (often decisions that affect what a person thinks or their core beliefs) include choosing a lifestyle, religious affiliation, or political position.

the existence of hell isn't bad when people have the choice not to get thrown into it.