Richard Dawkins is but a speaker, just like Hitler.

[iceaura]

Again, I go back to my only real opinion on the matter - concerted attempts to eradicate a way of thinking have always yielded horrific results.

Concerted attempts to eradicate the thinking that the world is flat have always led to horrific results? Concerted attempts to replace the witchcraft theory of disease with the germ theory of disease have always led to horrific results?

Education and argument and political badgering have always led to horrific results?

Seems unlikely.

Rational people who come into the faith remain rational. Irrational people who come into the faith remain irrational.

The common perversions of rationality we see among the "rational" who "come into the faith" are so often met and recognized as to have standard rebuttals - Russel's teapot, the evils afflicting children, the lack of authority in matters of the completely unknown, the watchmaker fallacy, the bizarre incomprehensions of probability and inversions of inference, etc etc - the litany of standard and simpleminded errors consistently and insistently committed by the "rational" who have "come into the faith" crosses culture, sect, language, ritual, and the wide oceans of the planet.

 

[phlogistician]

Rational people who come into the faith remain rational.

Oh please, faith is not a rational position.

 

[SolusCado]

Concerted attempts to eradicate the thinking that the world is flat have always led to horrific results? Concerted attempts to replace the witchcraft theory of disease with the germ theory of disease have always led to horrific results?

Education and argument and political badgering have always led to horrific results?

Seems unlikely.

You are confusing progress with oppression. Germ theory arose out of a desire to understand and learn, not to eradicate the prior model. Education = good. Oppression = bad.

The common perversions of rationality we see among the "rational" who "come into the faith" are so often met and recognized as to have standard rebuttals - Russel's teapot, the evils afflicting children, the lack of authority in matters of the completely unknown, the watchmaker fallacy, the bizarre incomprehensions of probability and inversions of inference, etc etc - the litany of standard and simpleminded errors consistently and insistently committed by the "rational" who have "come into the faith" crosses culture, sect, language, ritual, and the wide oceans of the planet.

You aren't describing the rational here, so I see no point in responding further.

 

[iceaura]

You are confusing progress with oppression. Germ theory arose out of a desire to understand and learn, not to eradicate the prior model.

Germ theory is now taught in schools, in educational protocols designed to be concerted and in many cases overtly dedicated efforts at - among other things - wiping out the witchcraft model of disease.

The horrific results of those educational efforts have been what, in your opinion?

You aren't describing the rational here, so I see no point in responding further.

I'm describing the same claimants to rationality you are, in the category "rational people who come into the faith".

 

[SolusCado]

Germ theory is now taught in schools, in educational protocols designed to be concerted and in many cases overtly dedicated efforts at - among other things - wiping out the witchcraft model of disease.

The horrific results of those educational efforts have been what, in your opinion?

Don't ask questions that assume I'm saying something I'm not. I JUST SAID that education is fine. Teaching a subject because it is relevant to the course (like Biology) you are in is the whole point of education. But you cannot seriously be suggesting that education today is overtly dedicated to wiping out the witchcraft model of disease are you? As far as the origins of modern medicine are concerned, those on the forefront of the field have also been the quickest to dismiss older theories and ideas - the elimination of the prior theories is a result of getting left behind, not the result of targeted elimination.

I'm describing the same claimants to rationality you are, in the category "rational people who come into the faith".

No, you're not.

 

[iceaura]

But you cannot seriously be suggesting that education today is overtly dedicated to wiping out the witchcraft model of disease are you?

Yep. Everywhere it hasn't been wiped out already, by the efforts of the past.

Overtly, deliberately, dedicated, concerted effort. Only partially successful, as we speak.

As far as the origins of modern medicine are concerned, those on the forefront of the field have also been the quickest to dismiss older theories and ideas -

That is either tautological or historically false, depending on your meaning of "forefront".

The the elimination of the prior theories is a result of getting left behind, not the result of targeted elimination.

Same as, according to you - in your description of Dawkins's and Harris's efforts, say.

I'm describing the same claimants to rationality you are, in the category "rational people who come into the faith".
”
No, you're not.

Yes, I am. Right here on this forum, and among all other relevant venues in the US. And if you don't believe me, just ask them.

 

[SolusCado]

Yep. Everywhere it hasn't been wiped out already, by the efforts of the past.

Overtly, deliberately, dedicated, concerted effort. Only partially successful, as we speak.

Are you kidding me?? Give me one example!

That is either tautological or historically false, depending on your meaning of "forefront".

By virtue of the fact that they pioneer new knowledge, they CANNOT be holding on to the old.

Same as, according to you - in your description of Dawkins's and Harris's efforts, say.

I actually have no idea what you are saying here.

Yes, I am. Right here on this forum, and among all other relevant venues in the US. And if you don't believe me, just ask them.

Just because they claim to be rational doesn't mean they fall into the category that I am referring to when I use the term. So, no - you're not.

 

[iceaura]

Yep. Everywhere it hasn't been wiped out already, by the efforts of the past.

Overtly, deliberately, dedicated, concerted effort. Only partially successful, as we speak.
”
Are you kidding me?? Give me one example!

Medical schools since 1600, anywhere in the nascent Western civilization. Medical clinics established in poor or rural areas in the early years of every modern industrialized country - the advice they gave, the practices they enforced. The current propaganda efforts in Africa, on certain Red reservations in the US, in rural parts of former Soviet countries, and in the rural areas of South America.

Just because they claim to be rational doesn't mean they fall into the category that I am referring to when I use the term.

And they would say the same.

The rest of us deal with the category as a whole.

That is either tautological or historically false, depending on your meaning of "forefront".
”
By virtue of the fact that they pioneer new knowledge, they CANNOT be holding on to the old.

Tautological, then. And identified in hindsight - the powerful and influential and established of the time, the ones who set the normal standards of any given era, are not those people.