SELF-Realization

[Simon Anders]

Of course, that is the paradox that is so often referred to when people think about non-duality. Activity doesn't cease just because someone becomes clear that they are not the body and not the mind - that they are just the awareness - 'Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.'

Pretty concrete stuff. Not all these heady hairsplitting and breaking things up into pieces with competing mental acts.

So what I am pointing to is not a matter of opinion or 'holding to this oneness doctrine' as you put it. It is evident now.

Don't you see that the truth we think in words is all our 'own' devising and assumes that just because we have named something we know it. So this is a computer - but what, really, is it?

yeah, well, I keep getting the sense that chopping wood and carrying water would be a hell of lot better in your system.

I said above that nothing matters to the oneness. I could also say from the point of view of an individual that it does matter - it matters to the one who sees himself as an individual and thinks he/she is suffering. And in the play, the appearance, there is another individual that points and says 'Suffering is not necessary and this is how you might end it.'

From the point of view of the individual still seeking answers it does matter whether the advice being given is useful or not, don't you think?

You are breaking off a part of your posited oneness and using it to justify actions that involving breaking up this oneness and above getting into disagreements with swarm - who it seems has a similar philosophy.

I can't see how this will help end suffering if you are correct about its origins.

But I'll leave it at that. Somehow I hoped you would at least find what you were doing funny even if you still felt it was good to disagree with swarm and tell him about oneness. But without a shared sense of irony.....

take care. I'll leave you to swarm. It's a good name, it's a set of 'things' and it is a verb. So I mean it both ways.

 

[swarm]

Swarm
Always treat the reality you find yourself in as real.
Always do non destructive reality testing.

onemoment
Here's a perfect example of advice that means nothing. What are people meant to do with this? Of course people treat the situation they are in as real

That is an assumption which is not always true.

If it means nothing to you personally, just file it away.

There are people for whom it means something and if you explore your consciousness to its limits, it will come to mean something to you as well. There are various ways in which meditation, hypnosis and other techniques can result in states where you might be tempted to ignore that advice. My recommendation is: Always treat the reality you find yourself in as real. Always do non destructive reality testing.

The question is though, is it 'me' who is making the decision to act? How can it be if it is all the one?

A more beneficial pointer to our oneness is to see for ourselves what in us has never changed, regardless of the ever changing experiences of life. Aren't we always aware? And are there any parts to this awareness?

I’m not posing this as a theoretical matter. It is pragmatic advice.

And what the hell does 'always do non destructive reality testing' mean?

Simple when testing your assumptions about reality like: I can fly, I’m invulnerable, I can pass through solid objects, I’m god, etc.; do not use a means which is destructive like: jumping in front of a car, jumping off the roof, running full force into a brick wall, destroying the universe.

Instead choose non destructive tests like: poking yourself with a needle, jumping up from the ground, resting your hand on the wall and trying to push through, leaving the universe alone.

Quite apart from the fact that this direction could never lead anyone to 'enlightenment' (more appropriately referred to as re-cognition of our true essence), what the hell is someone to make of this statement?

You have good focus, but there is more to life than just leading to enlightenment.

 

[Vkothii]

Enlightenment is more than one thing; if you're enlightened about your personal state of enlightenment. then you're aware that you aren't really enlightened (yet).
If you are truly enlightened (whatever that means), then you aren't especially aware of it, because you don't need to be, just like you don't need to be aware that oxygen goes into your lungs when you draw a breath. You still get the oxygen - even if you don't know what oxygen is.

It's not an arrival, it's a journey.

 

[onemoment]

Vkothii: It's not an arrival, it's a journey.

'Enlightenment' may appear to be a journey but once it is 'reached' there is knowing that it has always been so, that there is nothing other than enlightenment. Enlightenment is a re-cognition of your true essence ('re' because it is already something that is always there that you come to cognize).

You do not become aware of it, it is the awareness. Does that awareness you have have any parts? Can you say 'I am not aware'? No, that awareness must be there for you to even say 'I am not aware'. That awareness is what you come to identify with or that you come to re-cognize as your true essence.

That awareness that is always and ever there is missed - it is like the wind that cannot be grasped or known except for by the rustling leaf or moving flag on a pole etc.

What you have written is very confusing and confused. If you are really interested in what is being pointed at in teaching on enlightenment then check out the free podcasts on urbangurucafe.com. The 'teachers' on there won't lead you astray and they tell you right from the start, 'You are already what you seek. You need no practices and it takes no time. In fact, it is only 'now' that you can see this. Any thoughts of gaining something in the future is taking you away from re-cognizing your true nature because the thoughts of the mind are masking what is already there.'

 

[onemoment]

Vkothii: It's not an arrival, it's a journey.

'Enlightenment' may appear to be a journey but once it is 'reached' there is knowing that it has always been so, that there is nothing other than enlightenment. Enlightenment is a re-cognition of your true essence ('re' because it is already something that is always there that you come to cognize).

You do not become aware of it, it is the awareness. Does that awareness you have have any parts? Can you say 'I am not aware'? No, that awareness must be there for you to even say 'I am not aware'. That awareness is what you come to identify with or that you come to re-cognize as your true essence.

That awareness that is always and ever there is missed - it is like the wind that cannot be grasped or known except for by the rustling leaf or moving flag on a pole etc.

What you have written is very confusing and confused. If you are really interested in what is being pointed at in teaching on enlightenment then check out the free podcasts on urbangurucafe.com. The 'teachers' on there won't lead you astray and they tell you right from the start, 'You are already what you seek. You need no practices and it takes no time. In fact, it is only 'now' that you can see this. Any thoughts of gaining something in the future is taking you away from re-cognizing your true nature because the thoughts of the mind are masking what is already there.'[/QUOTE]

 

[swarm]

onemoment
'Enlightenment' may appear to be a journey but once it is 'reached' there is knowing that it has always been so, that there is nothing other than enlightenment. Enlightenment is a re-cognition of your true essence ('re' because it is already something that is always there that you come to cognize).

This sounds like you are repeating another’s words.

The funny thing about it is something said by one who is speaking from their own realization doesn’t work right repeated by someone who is not also speaking from their own realization. There is a certain je ne sais pas which is lost.

 

[onemoment]

Swarm: The funny thing about it is something said by one who is speaking from their own realization doesn’t work right repeated by someone who is not also speaking from their own realization. There is a certain je ne sais pas which is lost.

Sometimes yes, and sometimes no. It depends on why it does not work right.

If it doesn't work right because you are clearer than the other person, then that 'I do not know' (because it does not ring a bell) is legitimate. Then you have to trust with what rings true for you.

But if it is 'lost' because you are totally engaged in a story of time and it's got to be my way or the highway - then you need to try harder to understand. Be more earnest and sincere and ask to have it explained.

Or, you can just stop and smell a rose or admire that beautiful flower.