Should I Become An Atheist?

[KennyJC]

because if i am given time, i can reconcile ANY scientific fact with ANY question regarding jewish teachings.

I still don't undetstand what this means with regards to justifying a belief in any religion (I still don't know what yours is).

lets see the PROOF. all i ever hear on this forum is "the burden of the proof is on the believer.".............now, you claim you have proof, so lets see it. and i want details on the specific religions you say have been proven false.

Since I still don't know your religion, I can't come forward with that proof. But I am sure if you belong to a main religious organisation I could come forward with a decent amount of proof withing half an hour. Most of the funamental points of the Bible are refutable. I'm sure I have gone over this before, but I am always happy to go over it again.

Are you asking for proof of the existence or non-existence of an intelligent creator? Or are you asking for proof of the non-existence of a man-made God? One is far easier than the other to disprove...

 

[Mosheh Thezion]

So? The first commandment says Thou shalt not kill. Does that stop them from killing? The bible says usury (charging interest on money lent) is a sin, does that stop religious people from the banking industry?

IT does.. but only on a small scale...AS INDIVIDUALS. and as seems do-able by the individual...

you have to realise it doesnt matter that all obey...

its the benefit of the constant social pressure.. pushing cultures to develop NORMS.. Of behavior.. WHICH OVER TIME.. leads to better cultures.

without that pressure.. it would only be the rulers who deside right and wrong... and most ancient rulers didnt hold power by being nice.
they held power by being ruthless...

-MT

 

[KennyJC]

POINT IS PEOPLE.... do you want our world leaders to be theist?? or atheist??

because the atheist mind can allow himself to do anything...

the theist mind fears the anger of GOD, AFTER DEATH FOR HIS ACTIONS...

the atheist.. has no such fear...

now granted... theists leaders still do terrible things... or have.

but how much more evil are the things done by atheist leaders??

THERE IS a difference... especially when one is in power.

-MT

If today's standards are anything to go by, then I would rather be ruled by a secular democracy. Not only is it a fact that secular societies perform better, but you don't really hear of "SECULARISTS BURN FLAGS AND THROW STONES AT POLICE BEFORE KILLING EACH OTHER IN NONSENSICAL VIOLENCE".

 

[Mosheh Thezion]

if you live in a western country.. then you do..... but there are no democracies...
republics yes... socialism yes.. but democracies... no.

-MT

 

[Lerxst]

welcome to sciforums guy, but you are a lier.
you could only ever have been an agnostic or theist.
seriously think and try to use reason and common sense, then you will realise you made a mistake.

I'll give you some more detail, since you think I am being dishonest....

When I was younger, I embraced a rather limited philosophy in which there was simply no room for any type of supernatural agencies such as god or gods, and no way for an afterlife to possibly occur. So naturally, I was an atheist. As I have read more and thought more and talked with more people, I have come to the realization that the philosophy in which these views were based was flawed. Specifically, I have now come to the larger understanding that there can be truths which we do not and perhaps cannot know, and that my previous assertion that "it is impossible that a God could exist" was *incorrect.* I can no longer make such claims.

Do not mistake me for a believer - I am not. I'm an agnostic. I am a hopeful agnostic, however. I hope that there is a God, and that a pleasant afterlife awaits. But I don't believe in these things. If I buy a lottery ticket, I hope it will be the winning number, but I do not believe it will be.

 

[Tnerb]

This is the coolest topic I have seen!

I would advise you, to become an agnostic. I agree with the guy who says it is most logical. Socrates was sort of agnostic.. I am agnostic. I "believe in god"... Yeah. No. Hmmm..... I think it is up to you, just be reasonable........ Reasonable? Hell, reasonable yes, though I don't like that word so much!

 

[The Devil Inside]

There's no end to the harm you can do when you think God is on your side. I would rather leaders consider how to make things better on this Earth than think of human conflict as a reflection of cosmic forces.

indeed. that is my main problem with bush...he invokes the "G" and "J" words during political rallies.
the second that a politician even hints at using an intangible force as the reasoning behind tangible actions that affect anyone other than themself.....in my eyes, that disqualifies them from being fit for office.

 

[The Devil Inside]

I still don't undetstand what this means with regards to justifying a belief in any religion (I still don't know what yours is).

i make it clear in many posts that i am jewish.

Since I still don't know your religion,

i am jewish.

I can't come forward with that proof. But I am sure if you belong to a main religious organisation I could come forward with a decent amount of proof withing half an hour. Most of the funamental points of the Bible are refutable. I'm sure I have gone over this before, but I am always happy to go over it again.

read a hebrew torah. then refute the points.

Are you asking for proof of the existence or non-existence of an intelligent creator? Or are you asking for proof of the non-existence of a man-made God? One is far easier than the other to disprove...

i am asking you to refute the existence of G-d. if you say that is not possible, then i am asking you to refute the Torah. it is a book of philosophy on how to live your life. i am interested as to how you can bring evidence against philosophy, since it is opinion.

 

[Tnerb]

Exactly Devil man...

That is the problem with christians. That is the problem, what I mean: with such things... as for example the integrity to do what should be done... and christians are terrible in that respect if it makes them any worse. This is why I suggest agnosticism... if you have any faith in your father left. .... geez. Just hate the darn world when it isn't right. Geez.... Just.... .... .... athiest ? Athiest aren't so great sometimes if they are hardcore athiest, IMO! IMO!--- Agnostic? Don't believe anything is the ultimate stand point. This is just how I feel. Nothing more, or less......

 

[scorpius]

most of the time, when conversing on this forum, i tend to side with atheists over religious views.
i am however, jewish.
should i become an atheist, or not?
please include reasons to your answer.

I think we alll are atheists,
unless you worship and believe in ALL the gods people invented over the years and theres a whole crapload of them www.godchecker.com
youre atheistic toward some or most anyways

 

[KennyJC]

i make it clear in many posts that i am jewish.



i am jewish.



read a hebrew torah. then refute the points.



i am asking you to refute the existence of G-d. if you say that is not possible, then i am asking you to refute the Torah. it is a book of philosophy on how to live your life. i am interested as to how you can bring evidence against philosophy, since it is opinion.

The Torah will have to wait another day for me to look into. But if it is more philisophy than religion, then I have no problem with it, but I would have to find out more about it.

I didn't realise a mere mention of your race signified what God or religion you belong to. I am Scottish but I wouldn't say that is enough information to go on to signify what God I believe in.

 

[The Devil Inside]

no, i have said that i am a noahide jew.
that is a religion.
i am turkish/french by heritage....although i am american.

 

[Adstar]

Originally Posted by Adstar
If i had a faith that was false. I would want to be guided to the true faith

Originally Posted by Sarkus
How can you have a "true" faith?
Surely all faith is based on a lack of evidence - that is why it is faith.

Ok the original question came from The Devil Inside. He seems to understand what i am talking about.

I will modify the statement in an attempt to clarify it for you.

If i had trust in a view of Gods will, that was a false view. I would want to be guided to the true view of Gods will so that my trust and belief would be in alignment with that of the Creator.

Does that help?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[The Devil Inside]

i personally believe that "G-d" takes no direct role in the physical or spiritual universe.
G-d is more of a concept than a being, to me.
*shrug*
tomato, tomaato.

 

[Mosheh Thezion]

GOD gives us life and the will to live it.... after that he doesnt get much involved..

why would he need to?

-MT

 

[Mythbuster]

GOD give me life ? Your kidding.

Let's not forget that you are 1 out of billions of your father's sperm cells. Isn't masturbation bad ?
Well... I feel sorry for the ones you spilled on the floor.

You should be dead as a sperm.

 

[Mosheh Thezion]

IF GOD made the universe... then he literally made everything...

and so us.. as well..

-MT

 

[Mythbuster]

Oh realy ? Very cute MT very cute... is it a giant smurf ?

I wouldn't call it a God. It's simple a natural force that causes things to happen without decision or choice, but works more like a chemical reaction. The right conditions cause a certain outcome.

 

[Mosheh Thezion]

AND SO WHAT... established the universal constants?? by which all nature is based??

these constants are universal.. and fundamental...

they are not limited to earth... they are cosmic.

one could say it happened randomly... chaos.. etc..

but such is as likely as GOD...

-MT

 

[Sarkus]

Most atheists DO agree that there is no evidence for God - and therefore why have belief in something's existence for which there is absolutely no evidence.

Why? Because it might offer a significantly improved quality of life. And even with the paucity of evidence for God, there are plausibility arguments.

I have no problems with people clinging to a belief due to the other effects that such a belief can bring - the psychological benefits can be immense.
But that does not mean that the main belief is not irrational or illogical.

Also, there is not so much a paucity of evidence as an absolute lack of evidence.
And God is an entirely logical possibility - but one that is logically equivalent to something that doesn't exist. And there are an infinite other such things - so why have a belief that this particular one of them exists?

It is illogical / irrational to claim anything as true with no evidence to support that claim.

But it is entirely warranted to say that there are things that might be true although we have no evidence to support them.

I have never said otherwise.
It is perfectly okay to say "this thing MIGHT exist" when there is no evidence to support it. But to actually BELIEVE that it DOES EXIST is irrational / illogical.

A 16th century scientist would have had no reason to suppose that x-rays existed, although they most certainly did and do. If said scientist announced, with no evidence at all, that X-rays existed (supose he somehow dreamed up the concept), how would you have treated his claim? Technically he would have been correct, but in another sense, he would have been making an unwarranted claim that everyone else at the time would have rightly rejected.

You have utterly missed the point - as so many do.

Whether it ultimately proves to be true or not, to have a belief in something without any evidence at all is illogical and irrational.
The 16th Century scientist might be correct - but his belief without evidence was irrational and illogical.

I think it is important in realms where we don't have evidence to suspend judgement. Or as Sagan was fond of saying, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

Which is why I, as an atheist, and like so many other atheists on this site, do not go as far as saying "God does not exist".
We merely DO NOT HAVE THE BELIEF THAT GOD EXISTS because it is illogical and irrational to have such a belief.

The majority of atheists do not claim that GOD DOES NOT EXIST.
They merely do not have the belief that GOD EXISTS.

Do you understand the difference?
One is a belief in a negative.
One is not having a belief.