Knowing how bad things can get only helps you appreciate the good things. The soliders from WW2 are an example. They saw the worst conflict in human history so when they got back you know what they did? enjoyed life to the fullest. You dont have to experince the bad to feel good but it helps you appreciate things alot more.Little_Birdie said:
Shouldn't We be Thanking the Devil?
- Thread starter PsychoticEpisode
- Start date
Little_Birdie
Registered Senior Member
but a little child is one of the happiest people around because he does not know that there is bad at all only the loving nuturing looks of his family
Yes but they take things for granted.
Little_Birdie
Registered Senior Member
true but is taking things for granted better than living through hell
I'd rather thank God for sin than thank Him for a plate of food knowing that somewhere in the world people are starving to death. Too much good is a bad thing?
usp8riot
Registered Senior Member
Yes, and that is sin, PE. Chances are, when those children starve, it is a cause of sin on their parents' side. Maybe done intentionally or unintentionally, it is sin. Anything which causes a bad incident or accident is sin. Accidents through carelessness and ignorance and incidents through purposeful meanness sometimes or ignorance.
And no, I don't believe too much good is a bad thing. I believe too much of an extremity of good is a bad thing. As they say, the road to hell can oft be paved with good intentions. Things can easily cross that line for good, ie, doing something good for someone else. But when done too much good for them, it can spoil. And too much extreme of good can be bad. You want to help someone who hasn't much food, you give them lots of it. But why give them lots instead of enough when there's others out there who could use what they aren't currently using? Too much good done for one is not wise. It should be spread out to be equally balanced. It is the strive for equality, for justice, to make equal, to give as one as you would give to all, which is the good in man.
And no, I don't believe too much good is a bad thing. I believe too much of an extremity of good is a bad thing. As they say, the road to hell can oft be paved with good intentions. Things can easily cross that line for good, ie, doing something good for someone else. But when done too much good for them, it can spoil. And too much extreme of good can be bad. You want to help someone who hasn't much food, you give them lots of it. But why give them lots instead of enough when there's others out there who could use what they aren't currently using? Too much good done for one is not wise. It should be spread out to be equally balanced. It is the strive for equality, for justice, to make equal, to give as one as you would give to all, which is the good in man.
Carcano
Valued Senior Member
I had this idea when I was a kid that God kills the devil at the end of the Bible - a perfect hollywood ending.
But no, Revelation tells us that an angel descends from the heavens with a long chain and some keys, for the purpose of binding the devil for a thousand years...
Like a chain is supposed to hold the devil???
But no, Revelation tells us that an angel descends from the heavens with a long chain and some keys, for the purpose of binding the devil for a thousand years...
Like a chain is supposed to hold the devil???
Little_Birdie
Registered Senior Member
the point is god wants everyone in heaven there is a story about jesus waiting at the gates of heaven for judus sure heaven is eternal bliss and we don't miss people there (theologicly) but its original purpose was to "house" everyone the only way you miss heaven is by choosing to turn away from god the chains are the devil's own design for himself though they are forced on him because no one wants to be unhappy but people choose it anyway
Didn't want to start a new thread, so perhaps my Christian friends can answer this for me, it's along the same lines....If there has already been one major rebellion in Heaven then what is preventing another or has there been others(maybe we just aren't being told)?
General_Paul
Registered Senior Member
hug-a-tree said:
Why do you care about the afterlife? We're going to be dead anyways! We're going to be dead a hell of a lot longer than we are going to be alive, so why not just give up church and live life the way you believe it should be lived, and answer for it at the end, rather than spend half your life repentint sins? For some great and glorious afterlife?
And, usp8riot, children starving due to sin? If that's the true face of god, I'll damn well take hell over that sick, depraved shit. That's just wrong, no savior who preached loving and forgiveness would allow children to starve to death in the sudan, no matter how much free will we were "given" by "god." All this arguement does is prove that religion breeds intolerance through "morality" IE, sins. If there is an all loving god, in your opinion, would he let children starve to death? Obviously not. If there is a god and devil, I say, thanks lucifer, I'll take my free will, if there is a god and a lucifer, and be done with it. If you've lived a good life, then why even bother with a church? If you live your life by some moral standing that you have, and you're a good person, then you probably don't have to worry about going to hell.
Little_Birdie
Registered Senior Member
PsychoticEpisode said:
angels are like god in the fact that they are unchanginging. they picked their side before time began, and once time and space took hold so did their choices. just like you can't choose to serve god after you die; you have up until your last instant to change your mind, but once you are dead that is it
Little_Birdie
Registered Senior Member
General_Paul said:
god loves us so much he gave us free will to either serve him and propigate good, or evil. we are his instaments on earth to feed the hungery, give drink to the thristy, shelter the homeless, clothe the naked visit the sick and imprisioned, and burry the dead. if these things do not get done he's not just going to puppet us around to do so, all those who know, love and serve him in this world, will be with him foreer in the next
you are right that that the next life is longer so why care about this life when the next is were we cvan be truely happy
usp8riot
Registered Senior Member
General Paul; Yes, children starving due to mistakes, some intentional, some not, from man. So you say no savior or loving God would allow that to happen. Well, He wouldn't allow your comment to happen then if you want to play those cards. The cursing and mocking you do is wrong. You can just talk like a reasonable human being and get your point across by reason, and not anger. So you want God to not allow wrong? You want Him to make you a robot so you can't do wrong or anyone else? Then you will have no free will, you won't be able to do as you wish. And you say religion breeds intolerance? Am I not more tolerant than you when I could just as well talk back and intentionally be offensive towards others beliefs/ideas? And if you want to thank anyone for your free will, thank God since He made all.
usp8riot
Registered Senior Member
Yes, if good is the right decision to make, and you made only the right decisions all the time, you would more or less be a robot. Robots can do wrong in the eyes of others but in the eyes of their creators, even if they're programmed to hurt someone, they are doing right, or what their creator wanted. Just as animals do. Well, you might say, are we not doing as the creator intended by doing wrong and right? We are doing as the creator intended, He knew these things would happen, but we are not doing as He wants when we do wrong. Just as you program a robot with supposed free will, which you could argue, may not be a robot anymore, that's another debate. But the robot is doing as you wished, going about, facing new problems. So the robot hits a wall, it thinks what to do, a choice, go left/right/forward. Forward makes the bot hit the ball which is the wrong choice. Left and right is the right choice for it to negotiate the obstacle. So if it makes the wrong choice, you just figure, as a programmer, to throw away that chunk of code and replace it with one that does what's best for it. Yes, you gave it the ability to do wrong but you care for it, it is your creation, you don't want it hurt, so you want it to do the right thing. Especially if you created more bots, you would want them to interact right with each other, and not hurt each other. It can do right or wrong, doesn't mean it's right because you, the programmer/creator gave it to it. Just as the holy texts tell us and our conscience or reason. It tells us what is right for all, or can if we tune into it. That is what God left us with. He wouldn't put us here on this earth with nothing, no way to negotiate it and treat His creation.
I was just thinking: if we are supposed to be like robots that do no wrong then what kind of world would we be viewing today? Would we be cavorting about Eden in our birthday suits? Another thing. if we wanted to invent something we would get it right on the first try,wouldn't we? If I set out to figure out gravity, I could not get it wrong. If I wanted to invent interstellar propulsion systems I'd get it first time.
Of course the question is whether God would allow us to be programmed to think. Would He allow us to ask questions like where the heck did you come from? Instead of asking I could just sit down and figure it out without making a mistake.
It sounds great! We could find out everything there is to know in a matter of minutes. Only problem is....then what?
Of course the question is whether God would allow us to be programmed to think. Would He allow us to ask questions like where the heck did you come from? Instead of asking I could just sit down and figure it out without making a mistake.
It sounds great! We could find out everything there is to know in a matter of minutes. Only problem is....then what?
usp8riot
Registered Senior Member
Yes, PE, the way I see it. If we didn't make mistakes, we would know everything, because making mistakes requires previous ignorance to the problem ahead. If we knew ahead of time not to do something wrong, we would do it right because of having prior knowledge. Then we would know everything. So if we knew everything, in essence, we would have no free will. We would know in advance the outcome of our actions, and how we would be punished for them, and why. There would be no questions. There would be no need for food since we would know how to make ourselves independent of it. No need for knowledge since we know all. No need to procreate since we know how to stay alive and stay alive longer and not get older. We would morally know what to do and how to overcome moral problems. And then it's always the great, 'then what?'. Same problem I had. Go to work, get it done, come home, pay bills, live life, and then what? Make more money, and then what? Go to work everyday, same old stuff, and then what? Take a vacation, yeah, was ok, go back to work, get off, spend time with family, then what? The then what always leads to God. I kept thinking there has to be more to life than this. Because it would always be so boring. There was no permanant/long term purpose or goal.
Gee, usp, if we knew everything and lived forever we might decide to make a bunch of monkey people to give free will to.