The #1 reason you believe we did or did not land a man on the moon.

the number one reason i believe we went to the moon is because russia orbited a lunar probe to take pictures of the far side.
you can bet your life that after we went they orbited another one to confirm it.

if we didn't go then the russians would be smearing it in our faces with photographic evidence.
 
If the whole thing has been a hoax I would consider that to be a more astonishing accomplishment than actually putting someone on the moon.
 
The number one reason I believe that we landed on the moon is that everything else that is known about the history of space exploration backs up the story.

i.e. the preponderance of evidence is overwhelmingly in favour of the moon landing being real.
 
Because they did it multiple times.
 
Do you realize what you are saying? Russians were able to get an unmanned mission there well before Apollo. Yet you still believe putting a man there is easier? Completely ludicrous and your statement that it proves that a person landed there is completely false. Reflectors which were undoubtedly placed there unmanned is no proof at all. At least not to me...

I cannot take you seriously when you make outlandish comments like that. I don't see how anyone else could either...

The Russians did not land. Due to the rough terrain, it required human judgement to negotiate the landing.
 
Today we can measure the distance to the moon by laser, thanks to a small reflecting device placed there by the Apollo missions.

Grats on hitting the 24k hallmark- I may soon hit the 1k hallmark (well, starting my journey on the ks anyway :p). Anyway, I've heard that -some- of the missions were real and some were faked. Apparently, certain aliens weren't happy about man doing a few experiments on the moon and decided that enough was enough. NASA had to turn tail but couldn't do so publicly, so they faked the rest of the landings. This theory is brought to you by Jim Marrs, who I respect a fair amount. I am aware that some of his work may not be perfect, so I'm willing to entertain the possibility that this did not, in fact, happen. But I'm not going to simply dismiss it either.
 
So, did they ever intend to go? At some point did they just give up and say, "this will be impossible, let's just fake it"? It seems to me that would not be consistent with the attitude of the time, and certainly not with the money spent.
 
Radiation!
Three of the 24 astronauts who went to the moon died of cancer: Jack Swigert, Alan Shepard, and Wally Schirra. Those cancer deaths may or may not have resulted from radiation exposure during their trips to the moon; 24 is just too small a sample.

NASA's Apollo documents state that no major solar flares occured during any mission...Now go to the NGDC and see the CFI index for major solar flares. Amazingly enough, you'll find that NASA lied.
Your word isn't good enough. To be honest, I'm much more inclined to believe NASA than you.

You are implicitly assuming several things here:
  • That everything the NGDC labels as "major" represents a significant radiation threat.
  • That each major solar flare that occurred during an Apollo mission produced any ionizing radiation (not all do).
  • That each major solar flare that occurred during an Apollo mission produced ionizing radiation that hit the Apollo spacecraft (solar flares are directional, particularly so the proton stream).

After that, realize there is no magnetic field around the moon, meaning it has been irradiated for billions of years by everything from solar wind, solar flares, coronal mass ejections, to constant background GCR radiation, and gamma ray bursts. The moon is one very highly radioactive bit of rock.
No, it's not. Ionizing radiation rips molecules apart. It doesn't change the nucleus.
 
Mythbusters covered this a couple of months ago, they devoted an entire hour to it. I've been saving the tape, waiting for motivation to post their results here. Here are the most prominent and reasonable arguments for doubting the moon landing, and their debunking:
  • Faked photo #1: Rocks with shadows that appear not to be parallel to the shadow of the lander. How can you get that without studio lighting? The Mythbusters built a miniature set with an adequately distant light source, and they sculpted a "lunar landscape" with topography that exactly duplicated the shadows.
  • Faked photo #2: An astronaut climbing into the lander on the shady side, yet he's clearly visible. How could that be done without studio lighting? The Mythbusters built a miniature set, complete with a miniature lander, a proper light source, and a surface of artificial regolith with the same albedo as moon dust. The moon's surface is so reflective (have you ever seen it at night?) that the reflected light from the surface brilliantly illuminated the miniature astronaut.
  • Faked photo #3: The flag was waving. How could that happen in a vacuum? The Mythbusters erected a flag in one of NASA's vacuum chambers and used a motor to move the flag the way the astronauts did while planting it. In a vacuum, with no air to damp its movements, the momentum imparted to the flag by the astronauts kept the flag wiggling for quite a long time.
  • Faked photo #4: The astronauts' footprints remained intact. How could that happen in dry moon dust? The Mythbusters were allowed to inspect genuine moon dust brought back from the moon, and although they weren't allowed to use it they were able to duplicate it. Moon dust has not been ground up by water like earth dust, so the granules are jagged. When you stack them up they hold their shape, whereas rounded earth dust granules slide down unless they're wet.
  • Faked movie footage: The film of the astronauts skipping on the moon's surface could have been faked by taking the shots on the earth and just slowing them down. The Mythbusters are experts with special effects and tried to replicate three of the actions in the film--in spacesuits. There was no way they could duplicate the ways the bodies moved when their feet were off the ground. Gravity just doesn't work that way. To double-check, they booked time on NASA's zero-gee training aircraft, and had the pilot modify his flight plan to simulate the moon's 1/6 earth gravity instead of zero gravity. This was to make sure they were truly moving like the astronauts, and they got footage exactly like NASA's original.
So, the Mythbusters proved that all of the footage could have actually been taken on the moon, did not require studio lighting, and did not betray earthbound photography. This disproves the argument that the photos could not have been taken on the moon. In addition, they demonstrated that even trained special effects photographers could not fake the moon-walking scenes. This provides evidence that the footage had to have been taken on the moon, but it's probably not enough to convince a dedicated conspiracy theorist. So... on to the clincher.

The astronauts left objects called retroreflectors on the moon, which allow scientists to shine light on them in order to measure some of the moon's properties. A retroreflector is an assembly of prisms configured so that any incoming light beam is reflected directly back at its source, instead of requiring a perpendicular reflection. The Mythbusters went to an observatory with a big laser, pointed it at the locations of several retroreflectors, and got the reflections back at exactly the right wavelength.

Retroreflectors do not occur naturally and must be built by human engineering. These reflections could not have been produced if men had not landed on the moon and left the retroreflectors behind.

The conspiracy theory has been debunked.
 
Spidergoat,
please stop with your crap about robotic landings being difficult. Difficult to a degree, but your position appears to be that no robots could be landed at all. The US soft landed a number of Surveyor craft prior to the Apollo landings, and the USSR soft landed several, including return missions with lunar rock, though these all post dated Apollo 11.

Fraggle Rocker,
I've generally admired your posts, but your last one would have been bad even by Vallich's standards. You have utterly failed to address the issues raised by Un4g1v3n1. Talk about attacking strawmen!
 
there are two indisputable facts about the moon landing.
1. there was 1000s maybe 10s of 1000s that worked on this project and they were scattered all across the country. the apollo vehicle had to be capable of reaching the moon and these people knew whether it was or not.
2. and then there's the russians sitting out there watching our every move.
they would've loved to get something to rub in our faces.
don't forget that the moon landing happened in the midst of the "cold war".
 
there are two indisputable facts about the moon landing.
1. there was 1000s maybe 10s of 1000s that worked on this project and they were scattered all across the country. the apollo vehicle had to be capable of reaching the moon and these people knew whether it was or not.
2. and then there's the russians sitting out there watching our every move.
they would've loved to get something to rub in our faces.
don't forget that the moon landing happened in the midst of the "cold war".

Conspiracy theorists avoid logic and proof, that is far too logical. Of course they must have went behind the moon and hid there for the duration.:D
 
So, did they ever intend to go? At some point did they just give up and say, "this will be impossible, let's just fake it"? It seems to me that would not be consistent with the attitude of the time, and certainly not with the money spent.

I bloody wish they had done. What a godawful waste.

Although, I don't know. This was back when the CIA were running about shooting people and all that. ...I guess I think it's not inconceivable for the time period. :shrug:
 
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