The Building Blocks for Life on Earth:

[paddoboy]

https://phys.org/news/2020-03-blocks-life-earth-thought-billion-year-old.html

Building blocks for life on Earth arrived much later than we thought, billion-year-old rocks show:

Ancient rocks from Greenland have shown that the elements necessary for the evolution of life did not come to Earth until very late in the planet's formation—much later than previously thought.
extract:
"If you combine this with the evidence for very ancient life on Earth, it reveals that life got started on our planet surprisingly quickly, within only a few hundred million years. Now this might sound like a lot of time, and it is, but it is far different from what we used to think, that life took half a billion, or even a billion years to get started.

"And this gives hope for finding life on other planets that had a shorter geological history and period of 'warm and wet' conditions than Earth, because if life could get started quickly here, then perhaps it got started quickly elsewhere."

Professor Dr. Carsten Münker, also at the University of Cologne, added: "The fact that we are still finding traces of rare platinum metals in the Earth's mantle means that we can assume they were only added after the formation of the core was completed—they were certainly the result of later collisions of the Earth with asteroids or smaller planetesimals."
more at link.....

the paper:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2069-3

Ruthenium isotope vestige of Earth’s pre-late-veneer mantle preserved in Archaean rocks:

Abstract:
The accretion of volatile-rich material from the outer Solar System represents a crucial prerequisite for Earth to develop oceans and become a habitable planet1,2,3,4. However, the timing of this accretion remains controversial5,6,7,8. It has been proposed that volatile elements were added to Earth by the late accretion of a late veneer consisting of carbonaceous-chondrite-like material after core formation had ceased6,9,10. This view could not be reconciled with the ruthenium (Ru) isotope composition of carbonaceous chondrites5,11, which is distinct from that of the modern mantle12, or of any known meteorite group5. As a possible solution, Earth’s pre-late-veneer mantle could already have contained a fraction of Ru that was not fully extracted by core formation13. The presence of such pre-late-veneer Ru can only be established if its isotope composition is distinct from that of the modern mantle. Here we report the first high-precision, mass-independent Ru isotope compositions for Eoarchaean ultramafic rocks from southwest Greenland, which display a relative 100Ru excess of 22 parts per million compared with the modern mantle value. This 100Ru excess indicates that the source of the Eoarchaean rocks already contained a substantial fraction of Ru before the accretion of the late veneer. By 3.7 billion years ago, the mantle beneath southwest Greenland had not yet fully equilibrated with late accreted material. Otherwise, no Ru isotopic difference relative to the modern mantle would be observed. If constraints from other highly siderophile elements besides Ru are also considered14, the composition of the modern mantle can only be reconciled if the late veneer contained substantial amounts of carbonaceous-chondrite-like materials with their characteristic 100Ru deficits. These data therefore relax previous constraints on the late veneer and are consistent with volatile-rich material from the outer Solar System being delivered to Earth during late accretion.

 

[Write4U]

What are his criteria of "life"? Are you sure this guy is not a young earth advocate?
If we compare this to the mainstream science of earliest life (let alone the building blocks) the difference is much too large to come to a compromise. Somebody is totally wrong or just plain lying.

The accretion of volatile-rich material from the outer Solar System represents a crucial prerequisite for Earth to develop oceans and become a habitable plane

What are these volatile rich material from the outer solar system?
Science has pretty well established this material was accreted from the earth's collision with Theia.

Theia (/ˈθiːə/) is a hypothesized ancient planet in the early Solar System that, according to the 'giant-impact hypothesis', collided with Gaia (the early Earth) around 4.5 billion years ago.[1][2] According to one hypothesis, Theia was an Earth trojan about the size of Mars, with a diameter of about 6,102 km (3,792 miles). Models of the impact indicate that Theia's debris gathered around Earth to form the early Moon.

As Theia was composed mainly of ice, the collision introduced water to earth and allowed for the appearance of the first bio-chemicals, the building blocks of life, probably from deep sea volcanic vents (smokers).

This chronology fits very neatly with the fossil evidence of bio-chemistry and abiogenesis.

Earliest known life forms.....3.77 billion years ago
The earliest time that life forms first appeared on Earth is at least 3.77 billion years ago, possibly as early as 4.28 billion years, or even 4.5 billion years; not long after the oceans formed 4.41 billion years ago, and after the formation of the Earth 4.54 billion years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earliest_known_life_forms

This does not even address the building block but the very appearance of living things.
But this does.

The earliest known life forms found on Earth are fossils of microorganisms in 3.46 billion year old rocks in Western Australia. Life forms, as microorganisms, may have lived much earlier.

The earliest time that life forms first appeared on Earth is unknown. Such life forms may have lived as early as 4.28 billion years ago, not long after the oceans were formed 4.41 billion years ago, and not long after the formation of the Earth 4.54 billion years ago.

A life form, or lifeform, is an organism that is living. Estimates of the number of species of life forms on Earth range from 14 million, to as many as 1 trillion species.[3] More than 99% of all species of life forms that have ever lived on Earth are thought to be extinct.

Life forms may be found everywhere on Earth. This includes underground,[5] possibly at least 12 miles deep underground,[6] and the deepest parts of the oceans. Life can be found at least 47 miles high in the atmosphere[7] and, under test conditions, it survives the vacuum of outer space.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earliest_known_life_forms

 

[DaveC426913]

Science has pretty well established this material was accreted from the earth's collision with Theia.

Uh. No it hasn't.

But I'm open to reading publishing papers on the theory.

As Theia was composed mainly of ice, the collision introduced water to earth and allowed for the appearance of the first bio-chemicals, the building blocks of life, probably from deep sea volcanic vents (smokers).

That's one theory. It is by no means the leading theory.

The leading theory, unless it's been surpassed recently, is comet bombardment from the outer solar system.

 

[Write4U]

Uh. No it hasn't.
But I'm open to reading publishing papers on the theory.

There is strong physical evidence of the giant-impact hypothesis

The giant-impact hypothesis is currently the favored scientific hypothesis for the formation of the Moon.
Supporting evidence includes:

• Earth's spin and the Moon's orbit have similar orientations.[5]
• Moon samples indicate that the Moon's surface was once molten.
• The Moon has a relatively small iron core.
• The Moon has a lower density than Earth.
• There is evidence in other star systems of similar collisions, resulting in debris discs.
• Giant collisions are consistent with the leading theories of the formation of the Solar System.
• The stable-isotope ratios of lunar and terrestrial rock are identical, implying a common origin.....more

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant-impact_hypothesis

That's one theory. It is by no means the leading theory.

Apparently it is.

The leading theory, unless it's been surpassed recently, is comet bombardment from the outer solar system.

Can you explain why that is a better model than the one I just quoted?

The evidence of the abundance of water on earth, where there was very little in the beginning, suggests a delivery by a large celestial body and not a bunch of small stuff delivering large volumes of water over long periods of time.

That just doesn't fit the accepted model of emergence of life, which almost certainly did not happen recently, but offers a perfect chronology for the hypothesis of a large delivery of water just before the emergence of life.

Again I refer to Robert Hazen, who has studied mineral evolution and the origins of abiogenesis in depth and knows about this stuff.

 

[paddoboy]

What are his criteria of "life"? Are you sure this guy is not a young earth advocate?

That's actually silly and stretching the friendship. All that is being suggested is perhaps life started quicker then once thought, with the stuff necessary apparently arriving later..

What are these volatile rich material from the outer solar system?
Science has pretty well established this material was accreted from the earth's collision with Theia.

The original accretion disk was the one from whence the Sun and planets formed from. That was filled with the volatile rich material you mentioned, with the heavier stuff falling towards the center [where the terrestrial planets are] and the lighter stuff near the rim where the gas and ice giants orbit.
The Sun is a Pop1 and Gen2 star, so the original accretion disk would have been metal rich.

 

[Write4U]

Building blocks for life on Earth arrived much later than we thought, billion-year-old rocks show:

That's actually silly and stretching the friendship. All that is being suggested is perhaps life started earlier then once thought.

I'll let you straighten this out all by yourself.....

 

[paddoboy]

stuff up

 

[paddoboy]

I'll let you straighten this out all by yourself.....

OK thanks, too much haste and not enough time...answer now modified.

 

[paddoboy]

That's actually silly and stretching the friendship. All that is being suggested is perhaps life started quicker then once thought, with the stuff necessary apparently arriving later..

The original accretion disk was the one from whence the Sun and planets formed from. That was filled with the volatile rich material you mentioned, with the heavier stuff falling towards the center [where the terrestrial planets are] and the lighter stuff near the rim where the gas and ice giants orbit.
The Sun is a Pop1 and Gen2 star, so the original accretion disk would have been metal rich.

In effect the bodies, Earth and Theia would have both already been metal rich from that original accretion disk.

 

[DaveC426913]

There is strong physical evidence of the giant-impact hypothesis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant-impact_hypothesis

I didn't say Theia wasn't a strong hypothesis; I said it doesn't follow that that's where Earth got its volatiles primarily from Theia.

Apparently it is. Can you explain why that is a better model than the one I just quoted?

See above.

The evidence of the abundance of water on earth, where there was very little in the beginning, suggests a delivery by a large celestial body and not a bunch of small stuff delivering large volumes of water over long periods of time.

Is this your contention? Or is there an accepted theory that suggests volatiles and water came primarily from Theia?

 

[Write4U]

The leading theory, unless it's been surpassed recently, is comet bombardment from the outer solar system

The Collision that Created the Moon Might Have Also Brought Water to the Early Earth

Scientists at the University of Munster have discovered that Earth got its water from a collision with Theia. Theia was the ancient body that collided with Earth and formed the Moon. Their discovery shows that Earth’s water is much more ancient than previously thought.

The standing theory for the formation of the Moon involves an ancient body called Theia. About 4.4 billion years ago, Theia collided with Earth. The collision created a massive debris ring, and the Moon formed from that debris.

Standing theory also says that Earth gathered its water over time, after the collision with Theia, with comets and asteroids delivering the water. But the new study from the University of Munster presents evidence that supports a different source for Earth’s water: Theia itself.

https://www.universetoday.com/14229...t-have-also-brought-water-to-the-early-earth/

And that fits perfectly with the appearance of life which requires water. Occam.

 

[DaveC426913]

Yeah. So it's a competing theory. Not "established" as you asserted.

 

[Write4U]

In effect the bodies, Earth and Theia would have both already been metal rich from that original accretion disk.

No Theia did not come from our solar system, it came from further out. And that would account for a lot of extra-solar chemicals and minerals and most of all water.

Much or our understanding of Earth’s water come from two types of meteorites: carbonaceous meteorites, which are rich in water, and non-carbonaceous meteorites, which are drier. And carbonaceous meteorites come from the outer Solar System, while the drier non-carbonaceous meteorites come from the inner Solar System. Got all that?

There’s lots of evidence that Earth’s water was delivered by the wet carbonaceous meteorites from the outer Solar System, but when and how that happened has never been certain. This study brings some certainty to the issue.

But the paper goes further than that. Since the molybdenum in the mantle had to have come from the outer Solar System, due to it being a different isotope, that means that Theia also had to come from the outer Solar System. The scientists behind this research show that the collision with Theia provided enough carbonaceous material to account for the majority of Earth’s water.

https://www.universetoday.com/14229...t-have-also-brought-water-to-the-early-earth/

 

[Write4U]

Yeah. So it's a competing theory. Not "established" as you asserted.

I did not assert that. The quoted passages from reliable sources do.

The standing theory for the formation of the Moon involves an ancient body called Theia. About 4.4 billion years ago, Theia collided with Earth. The collision created a massive debris ring, and the Moon formed from that debris.

https://www.universetoday.com/14229...t-have-also-brought-water-to-the-early-earth/

 

[Write4U]

I didn't say Theia wasn't a strong hypothesis; I said it doesn't follow that that's where Earth got its volatiles primarily from Theia.

I never claimed that Theia delivered "volatiles " to earth. Those may have well been delivered by many other celestial bodies impacting the earth. But life does not require many volatiles. Life only requires some 10% of the 5000 known minerals . But life does require water and Theia is a perfect "wet carbonaceous" candidate for delivering a single large quantity of water on earth, which may even have facilitated the abiogenetic process.

https://www.universetoday.com/14229...t-have-also-brought-water-to-the-early-earth/

 

[Write4U]

In effect the bodies, Earth and Theia would have both already been metal rich from that original accretion disk

I believe here is where you may be misinformed. Theia was never a part of the accredtion disk before it impacted wih earth and created the moon from the resulting accretion disk. Theia ceased to exist during the impact.

1. An artist's depiction of the hypothetical impact of a planet like Theia and the Earth
2. Animation of collision event between Earth (blue) and Theia (black), forming the Moon (red->grey). Celestial bodies are not to scale.

In contrast, evidence published in January 2016 suggests that the impact was indeed a head-on collision and that Theia's remains can be found in both the Earth and the Moon.

Additional evidence published in 2019 suggests that Theia might have formed in the outer Solar System rather than the inner Solar System, thus making it analogous to a Kuiper-Belt object like Pluto, and that much of Earth's water originated on Theia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theia_(planet)

The earth has a big chunk of Theia in its belly and a lot of its water and minerals as well.

 

[paddoboy]

I believe here is where you may be misinformed. Theia was never a part of the accredtion disk before it impacted wih earth and created the moon from the resulting accretion disk. Theia ceased to exist

The thing is, if the hypothesis is accurate and correct, Theia was still formed fom the accretion disk that formed all the planets, Asteroids, comets and Sun anyway. Unless you are saying it was formed in another system? To which I would need to ask what evidence is there of that?
Perhaps from the Oort cloud surrounding solar system out to about 2 or 2.5 L/years? Although strictly speaking, that is also still hypothetical.
Or perhaps our Sun was just one of other stellar objects that formed in the same accretion disk system.

 

[DaveC426913]

I never claimed that Theia delivered "volatiles " to earth.

That is literally what you claimed:

What are these volatile rich material from the outer solar system?
Science has pretty well established this material was accreted from the earth's collision with Theia.

 

[Write4U]

Abstract:
The accretion of volatile-rich material from the outer Solar System represents a crucial prerequisite for Earth to develop oceans and become a habitable planet1,2,3,4. However, the timing of this accretion remains controversial5,6,7,8. It has been proposed that volatile elements were added to Earth by the late accretion of a late veneer consisting of carbonaceous-chondrite-like material after core formation had ceased

Write4U said: ↑
What are these volatile rich material from the outer solar system?
Science has pretty well established this material was accreted from the earth's collision with Theia.

That is literally what you claimed:

No, I didn't.
Based on paddo's quoted claim by his source, I first posed a question what that volatile-rich material from the outer Solar System was (questioning if it was causal to the formation of life), and offered a solution that Theia might contain such volatile rich matrial, being that it came from the very outer Solar System.
Remember, we were discussing if the necessary materials for life were deposited by Theia or by a constant bombardment of smaller asteroids which is what you claimed.

p.s. Apparently Theia added considerable mass to the earths core, which is bigger than it is supposed to be. Theia is the prefect candidate because of its size and relatively slow speed which allowed it to penetrate the earths mantle without acting like a giant bomb. That's why large chunks of both Theia and the Earth broke lose when they merged, to form the basis for the moon?

 

[DaveC426913]

No, I didn't.

I think you're confused.