The Trump Presidency

[Write4U]

Which is what I try to explain to you all the time. There is a lot of corruption, and if one would seriously try, one would find a lot of things. So, once the anti-Trumpers try to find something, they will find something.

Do you expect the FBI or other law-enforcement agencies to find something? Should that exonerate Trump?
In 15 years of investigations they never found anything criminal committed by Hillary Clinton. Yet there was a chorus of "lock her up". Innocence = Guilt?
And Trump is the good guy because he was never investigated to expose his criminalty? Guilt = Innocence?

We'll soon know, won't we?
But then, you don't care either way. You are an objective bystander. I get it.......

 

[Write4U]

@ Schmelzer,
You quoted:

Write4U said:
Sanctions IMO are not a military intervention, but maybe they are to you...

Where did I say that?

Maybe you are cracking right now??

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

"Mr. Trump is an enigma. He is complicated...He has both good and bad, as do we all. But the bad far outweighs the good, and since taking office, he has become the worst version of himself.... Given my experience working for Mr. Trump, I fear that if he loses the election in 2020, that there will never be a peaceful transition of power."
-- Michael Cohen

 

[geordief]

"Mr. Trump is an enigma. He is complicated...He has both good and bad, as do we all. But the bad far outweighs the good, and since taking office, he has become the worst version of himself.... Given my experience working for Mr. Trump, I fear that if he loses the election in 2020, that there will never be a peaceful transition of power."
-- Michael Cohen

It needed saying.

What could be done to counter that possibility?

 

[Schmelzer]

You quoted: Where did I say that?

Sorry for the misattribution, it was Quantum Quack in http://www.sciforums.com/threads/the-trump-presidency.158659/page-179#post-3565562 I had answered this in the same post as your, I copypasted the wrong line for the header of the last quote.

Do you expect the FBI or other law-enforcement agencies to find something?

In principle, this should be easy, last but not least this is three felonies a day land. On the other hand, it depends on the power constellations inside the deep state, where I have no insight. Hillary had enough deep state support, thus, the investigations had to fail. Trump has much less deep state support, so the situation may be different here.

We'll soon know, won't we?
But then, you don't care either way. You are an objective bystander. I get it.......

You have understood it. I couldn't care less about the personal fate of all these criminals. IMHO Trump is simply less evil than Hillary, at least he was, if he starts a war in Venezuela, they will be on equal foot.

 

[iceaura]

In principle, this should be easy, last but not least this is three felonies a day land.

You still post that wingnut bs?
Most Americans cannot even be investigated by warrant, let alone indicted by grand jury, never mind convicted, of operating an organized criminal enterprise committing multiple major felonies on purpose over decades.

Hillary had enough deep state support, thus, the investigations had to fail. Trump has much less deep state support, so the situation may be different here.

You have no idea who has "deep State" support, or how much. You lack relevant information.
(Clinton was flat out persecuted by the FBI - the investigations were continued long past the findings of minor wrongdoing, and made public in exaggerated description to her considerable harm, by the same FBI that was at the same time, and has been ever since, handling Trump's far more serious behaviors with far more discretion).

IMHO Trump is simply less evil than Hillary, at least he was, if he starts a war in Venezuela, they will be on equal foot.

He has already made nice with the Saudis over Yemen and Qatar, restored and expanded the dirty war drone operations, and appointed Bolton and Abrams to run things in Venezuela - surpassing Clinton's evil immediately, and joining the ranks of W&Cheney.

 

[Quantum Quack]

One of the greatest achievements of the Trump administration has been to drain the congressional swamp of long serving Republicans.... true or false?
If it were not for Trump what would be the make up of the house?

That being said, Trump appears to be the Democrats most significant asset.

 

[sculptor]

we have a pattern here
the party opposite that if the elected president always(?) wins more congressional seats during the midterm elections

parties aside
it seems that most career politicians do not readily accept an outsider

 

[Schmelzer]

You still post that wingnut bs?
Most Americans cannot even be investigated by warrant, let alone indicted by grand jury, never mind convicted, of operating an organized criminal enterprise committing multiple major felonies on purpose over decades.

Nice description, being a member of the government or working for the government is, indeed, nothing which can be investigated or persecuted, despite the fact that this criminal organization commits multiple major felonies on purpose over decades. If one believes that indeed, as claimed by many sources, the CIA controls a lot of the narcotraffic and gets the budget for illegal operations from this source, this would be correct even for that CIA-controlled narcotraffic.
How this is related to "three felonies a day" is not clear, it is simply what has to be expected: In a "three felonies a day" state, everybody is a criminal, and so the survival depends on having good relations with the masters in control of the police.

(Clinton was flat out persecuted by the FBI - the investigations were continued long past the findings of minor wrongdoing, and made public in exaggerated description to her considerable harm, by the same FBI that was at the same time, and has been ever since, handling Trump's far more serious behaviors with far more discretion).

It is not that I have no information, I simply do not consider it as reliable. A quite common description of the power relation inside the FBI is that there is a lot of support for Trump among those working for the FBI, but the leadership being anti-Trump. From point of view of this theory, one would have to expect the real investigations done by the FBI people on the ground being done in more serious way against Clinton than Trump, but giving nothing as the result because all this would be stopped on the higher level. Fits nicely with your description. (So, I add a point to this theory).

 

[Quantum Quack]

Nice description, being a member of the government or working for the government is, indeed, nothing which can be investigated or persecuted, despite the fact that this criminal organization commits multiple major felonies on purpose over decades. If one believes that indeed, as claimed by many sources, the CIA controls a lot of the narcotraffic and gets the budget for illegal operations from this source, this would be correct even for that CIA-controlled narcotraffic.
How this is related to "three felonies a day" is not clear, it is simply what has to be expected: In a "three felonies a day" state, everybody is a criminal, and so the survival depends on having good relations with the masters in control of the police.

It is not that I have no information, I simply do not consider it as reliable. A quite common description of the power relation inside the FBI is that there is a lot of support for Trump among those working for the FBI, but the leadership being anti-Trump. From point of view of this theory, one would have to expect the real investigations done by the FBI people on the ground being done in more serious way against Clinton than Trump, but giving nothing as the result because all this would be stopped on the higher level. Fits nicely with your description. (So, I add a point to this theory).

Do you think perhaps that you are underestimating the importance and significance of the Constitution in your deliberations?
How important do you think the constitution is regarding the hierarchy of allegiance for people in power ( law enforcement or other)?
How important is the Judiciary in your view of power corruption in the USA?

 

[RainbowSingularity]

well it sure is heating up

 

[Write4U]

The upcoming months will be a true test of the strength and wisdom of a social economic democracy as envisioned by the drafters and amenders of the US Constitution.

 

[Schmelzer]

doubled

 

[Schmelzer]

Do you think perhaps that you are underestimating the importance and significance of the Constitution in your deliberations?

In principle, I highly value the US constitution, it was a quite important document and played a big role making the US strong.

But it became a piece of worthless paper with time. Probably this is the fate of all such documents. Once it is essentially the state itself which decides if some law written by the state violates the constitution, it is only a question of time until the law is in complete conflict with the constitution but nobody cares. At least in the domain of economy, this has happened during the New Deal. And after the PATRIOT act it became completely worthless, except maybe for the 2. amendment, which people defend with reference to the constitution, even if they succeed only partially. The reaction of the state to the population having arms - namely to arm the police as if it is an army occupying the land - has made these weapons owned by the people quite irrelevant. Those ready to defend their freedom against the state with their weapons will end like in Waco.

Today the US is completely overregulated, with all those regulatory instances having a power which has nothing to do with the constitution. Essentially the only role of the constitution today is propaganda.

 

[Schmelzer]

ups, even tripled

 

[iceaura]

Nice description, being a member of the government or working for the government is, indeed, nothing which can be investigated or persecuted

Why did you change the subject from your wingnut bs "three felonies a day"?

Nice description, being a member of the government or working for the government is, indeed, nothing which can be investigated or persecuted, despite the fact that this criminal organization commits multiple major felonies on purpose over decades

Members of government and employees of the government are investigated and prosecuted every day in the US.

A quite common description of the power relation inside the FBI is that there is a lot of support for Trump among those working for the FBI, but the leadership being anti-Trump.

There was no pro-Clinton faction in the FBI in 2016, and there had never been one - going back to the early 1990s. The FBI has always been dominated by Republican rightwing conservatives, including every Director since its foundation.

The Director of the FBI - James Comey - was a central figure in the hostile and biased handling of Clinton compared with Trump during the 2016 campaign. His immediate lower chain of command was also involved.

Which figures of the "leadership" of the FBI do you think were opposing the Director and his chosen subordinates?
- - - -

Do you think perhaps that you are underestimating the importance and significance of the Constitution in your deliberations?

Schmelzer has no idea what the Constitution of the US is, or how it works.

 

[Schmelzer]

Members of government and employees of the government are investigated and prosecuted every day in the US.

But not for membership in the criminal organization "government".

Which figures of the "leadership" of the FBI do you think were opposing the Director and his chosen subordinates?

This is not my theory, and I don't know which figures are assumed to be pro-Clinton. But it seems to be a quite popular one, I have seen it in different places.

 

[iceaura]

Once it is essentially the state itself which decides if some law written by the state violates the constitution, it is only a question of time until the law is in complete conflict with the constitution but nobody cares. At least in the domain of economy, this has happened during the New Deal.

You have absolutely no defense against even the silliest of the US authoritarian corporate capitalist propaganda feeds.
That is because you lack information, and they have the best funded and most sophisticated marketing operations. You are incapable of evaluating the top-flight bs they throw at you.
Essentially, everything you think you know about the US Constitution and the New Deal is wrong, and most of what you think you know about the Patriot Act (in particular, who favors it and who pushed for it and why). You have been deliberately misled by corporate capitalists who want to pay no taxes and follow no regulations, and think that destroying the US Constitution while installing a fascist government is an acceptable means among others to that end.

But not for membership in the criminal organization "government".

For crimes they commit, criminal activity they support.

This is not my theory, and I don't know which figures are assumed to be pro-Clinton. But it seems to be a quite popular one, I have seen it in different places.

Of course you have. It's being marketed by the biggest and most sophisticated propaganda operation on the planet, and that's your main source for everything US related.
And since you have no idea what the reality of the situation is, such as how the FBI actually works and how it behaved in 2016 and what its thirty years of relations with the Clintons have been, you have no defenses. You repost the silliest of wingnut crapola all over this forum, gullible as a guppy.

Meanwhile your guy Trump is strongly favoring the militarization of the police just as he said he would, and the abrogating of various Constitutional provisions that act to curb military involvement in local law enforcement. His administration's suspension of Fourth Amendment protections in areas within one hundred miles of the national border, for example, suspends them for 2/3 of the US population.

 

[Schmelzer]

What I do not understand is why iceaura thinks that repeating all the same "you are stupid", even without an explicit description of what is wrong with my statements, and what would be the correct information, is of any value.

Essentially, everything you think you know about the US Constitution and the New Deal is wrong, and most of what you think you know about the Patriot Act (in particular, who favors it and who pushed for it and why).

But what is wrong in particular? What is, instead, correct? No information. So this is only some quasi-automatical reply. Maybe iceaura is simply some AI, clever enough to give trivial answers, but unable to give more sophisticated answers?

(Note that I do not need to know much about the PATRIOT act to know that it is supported by the deep state. W has started it, Obama has not stopped it. Thus, bipartisan support. Elections obviously do not matter in this question. Which is what characterizes the things important for the deep state.)

The only facts iceaura mentions are facts which only support what I wrote about the constitution, namely that it is today a piece of paper which has only propaganda value, in everything that happens on the ground nobody cares about it. The Reps give a shit, the Dems give a shit too. Iceaura mentions, of course, only the evil things of one side. Which is what is expected.

Meanwhile your guy Trump is strongly favoring the militarization of the police just as he said he would

And Obama has done a lot to demilitarize the police, as you can, without doubt, prove with explicit evidence? Strangely, I became aware of this tendency of militarization during Obama time. But I'm sure this has been started by Reagan or W or so, certainly not during Clinton or Obama time, and these poor guys were simply unable to stop this, despite the large powers they have to stop such things once elections matter.

Last but not least, "less evil than Clinton" does not mean "my guy".

For crimes they commit, criminal activity they support.

Only for crimes they do alone, or together with competing criminal organizations. Not for crimes they do or support in agreement with the government. Like extracting taxes, or imprison people for not paying taxes.

 

[candy]

During the Clinton impeachment I kept thinking they have got to be kidding.
I remember Watergate and the Nixon resignation. I also remember the aftermath of double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, and double digit unemployment.
I am willing to wait for Jan. 2021 rather than go though that again.