This is what you must do when you own slaves!

Knife said:
jojo said:
Joeman,
The verses you are using are laws not applicable for Christian. Christians are not under the law of Moses. Christians can not be justified in God by the law of Moses.

since one of the characteristics of God is perfection, why would he state one law at the time of moses and then change it at the time of Jesus and then need to change it again for our times. Why not make a law that would endure for all times?

or have the laws changed through the ages as civilization progresses?

but would that negate the idea of it being the word of God?

so then who is righteous enough to have the power to change the word?

....ooohhh man, i am lost.
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God didn't change anything.

This is one of the biggest "problems/questions" people have.

You forget that He, being the Omniscient King that He is, already knew that He would send His Son, the Lamb, to die for our sins. All of eternity has already been planned out about God, and therefore there is "nothing out of place", and consequently, nothing moves Him, that He should have a change of heart.

If anyone else wants to argue this, it's going on in some other thread so.
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You forget that He, being the Omniscient King that He is, already knew that He would send His Son, the Lamb, to die for our sins.
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I thought you couldnt be punished for someone elses sins? Is that not in the bible?
 
Basically what you are saying is if something in the bible is retarded, don't take it literally. Otherwise bible should be read literally.
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No. Example: in the time the letters to Timothy were written, only prostitutes would braid their hair, as a way to show off more of their body. Paul encouraged women not to braid there hair, not because there was some thing wrong with it, but because a women should not be trying to show off there bodies and shound not want to give the wrong impressions of things. To day Christian women braid their hair. Is there something wrong with that? No. Culturaly it is no big deal. But most christian women don't walk around looking like a prostitute. that is the main point.
 
Lemming3k said:
I thought you couldnt be punished for someone elses sins? Is that not in the bible?
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In the bible, there are many examples of someone being killed because of the sin of another family member. God sometimes kill his entire family when a man sins.
 
I know, i also recall someone quoting a verse that says you cant be punished for someone elses sins, i was hoping someone would know the verse i mean and see the foolishness of it.
 
jojo said:
Joeman,
The verses you are using are laws not applicable for Christian. Christians are not under the law of Moses. Christians can not be justified in God by the law of Moses.

Acts 13:39
And by him(Jesus Christ) all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
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Just found this passage.

Ephesians 6:5 “Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but like slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart. Serve whole-heartedly, as if you were serving the Lord, not men, because you know that the Lord will reward everyone for whatever good he does, whether he is slave or free.”

In this letter from Paul, he wants slaves to obey their masters the same way they obey Christ. Slavery is supported by new testament as well as old testament.

Since Christian Fundamentalist believe bible is the word of God, and the words of God is the truth, that means they must support slavery as well!.
 
Enigma'07 said:
No, that's not what I'm saying. this portion of the Bible was written 2000+ years ago. It tells of the culture then acuratly, but culture changes, so you must study to understand what the main point is. In this case, it's do not abuse other people, even if you are above them.
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Actually I think you are totally wrong about the main point of the bible. Those laws are actually much better than what they had back then, and if you study their culture, they actually they make sense. The main point is to make laws that drastically improve on what they already had.

However, God is supposingly perfect and omnipotent. Those laws are obviously inferior to what we have today. Is God inferior to men? No. That means the bible is all wrong. Also God and Jesus have many chances to condemn slavery, but he never did.
 
Oh you simple minded people. Have you ever read the Bible? do you think you can throw out a verse here and there throwing pod shot back and forth at eachother. Do you really know who Jesus is? Don't think you can quote one verse and know the whole meaning of Christianity, as if an awesome living God can be defined in your punie little brains. You talk about Old Testament Laws and question whether they still apply? Why? What are you trying to accomplish? Do you really put matters of faith in the greatest power this world will ever know in something as simple as fecal discharge? Let me be simple for you, The God I serve doesn't Shit!
 
Glenn_Hawley said:
Oh you simple minded people.

D__ OK, you are superior, right?

Have you ever read the Bible?

D__ well, i know someone who has. And i wouldn't take her on if i was you. see 'criticizing chist'...that's her user name.

do you think you can throw out a verse here and there throwing pod shot back and forth at eachother.

D__ well, that's what you fundies are famous for. and what isn't clear abouthe verse that tells 'slaves' to obey there masters? are you saying that somewheres else it tells slaves to break FREe from there masters? let's see it. i am interested

Do you really know who Jesus is?

D__Do you? and can you presnt proof he ACTUALLY even existed?

Don't think you can quote one verse and know the whole meaning of Christianity, as if an awesome living God can be defined in your punie little brains.

D__ err, 'punie' is spelt, 'PUNY, dear

You talk about Old Testament Laws and question whether they still apply? Why? What are you trying to accomplish? Do you really put matters of faith in the greatest power this world will ever know in something as simple as fecal discharge? Let me be simple for you, The God I serve doesn't Shit!
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maybe not, but you are FULL of it
 
i believe the whole of the law is complete. we SHOULD obey the laws.
but, for some of us who are fallible.....
in other words...my disobedience to some of the law is between myself, and the author of the law. i am a hypocrite. i am a man.
NOONE can obey all of the laws perfectly.
 
even the "perfect jew" (in the eyes of christians), jesus christ disobeyed the law when it wasnt practical.
none of us are anywhere near the moral person he was.
im jewish, and i say that. why do others have such a hard time accepting that?
 
the devil inside:because to other he never existed, it would be stupid to except nothing from nothing.
Glenn-Hawley: welcome, your new here and after a time, you will realise that 75% of the people on this forum know there bible back to front,. but you are yet to learn that.
so all said and done. welcome again.
 
pavlosmarcos said:
the devil inside:because to other he never existed, it would be stupid to except nothing from nothing.
Glenn-Hawley: welcome, your new here and after a time, you will realise that 75% of the people on this forum know there bible back to front,. but you are yet to learn that.
so all said and done. welcome again.
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Thanks for the welcome. I understand your point, but I don't think you understand mine. You may know the Bible, but do you know the Word (John 1:1). You can fight over Biblical terms and conflicting passages and alternative views all you want, but to know the Bible is not to know the Word. "to know me is to know the one who sent me..."
 
I thought you couldnt be punished for someone elses sins? Is that not in the bible?
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Well, there's certainly stuff about visiting the sins of the fathers onto the children unto the tenth generation. To return to Thomas Paine, whose main problem with the Bible was that it could not prove its authenticity and therefore should not be accepted as "the word of God", he was, however, okay with many of the laws promulgated, except that he made a specific footnote as follows:
The commandments carry no internal evidence of divinity with them; they contain some good moral precepts, such as any man qualified to be a lawgiver, or a legislator, could produce himself, without having recourse to supernatural intervention.<sup>1</sup>

<sup>1</sup> It is, however, necessary to except the declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children; it is contrary to every principle of moral justice.​


Glenn Hawley welcome indeed, but *yawn*. We are here to debate and discuss, not to listen to preaching. People who proselytise their religious views without providing any intellectual backup that is clearly the product of their own brains, rapidly lose the interest of the sciforums members.
 
Its great isn't it, god the omni everything codoned slavery back then but not now (see para below). Thats moral relativism for you, but wait, isn't one of the christians main arguments about how moral they are yet god kinda makes it up as he goes along.

Jesus, perhaps one of the Christians here could show me the passage where he outlaws or condemns slavery? How about womans rights?

So you've got a moral text that reads exactly like the typical bronze age morals, yet claimed to be the word of a divine just omnipotent being. Maybe it is just a bronze age text?

So our slavery condeming, equal womans rights human society has higher morals than gods word.
 
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