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river

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Now you're moving the goalposts with the weasel word "physical". One possible interpretation of that word is that everything described by physics is "physical". But that does not imply that everything described by physics is a substance (stuff).
Oh, "physical" is a weasel word? I see.
But you seem to struggle with its meaning, repeatedly.

Physical need not be a thing which is "stuff you can put in a bottle". I can put a vacuum in a bottle, the bottle has "nothing" in it, is nothing a physical thing? It has a volume, maybe that's the physical thing. Or maybe nothing isn't really empty, or something equally vague.
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Disagree arfa ( high lighted )

Vacuum is sucked out of the bottle , not put into it . By the physical .

Further without the physical structure of the bottle its self , where would your nothing exist ? No where .
 
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river said:
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Disagree arfa ( high lighted )

Vacuum is sucked out of the bottle , not put into it . By the physical .

Further without the physical structure of the bottle its self , where would your nothing exist ? No where .
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How does the air get into the bottle? We have to breathe it in, a bottle cannot do that.

EDIT: That is specifically aimed at River.
 
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Disagree arfa ( high lighted )

Vacuum is sucked out of the bottle , not put into it . By the physical .

Further without the physical structure of the bottle its self , where would your nothing exist ? No where .
Click to expand...


davewhite04 said:
How does the air get into the bottle? We have to breathe it in, a bottle cannot do that.

EDIT: That is specifically aimed at River.
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Strange question really .

Air flows around the bottle , all the time , regardless of whether you are there or not .
 
davewhite04 said:
What is space?
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At any point , anywhere out there something passes thru any point travelling along a geometrically infinite number of trajectories, from perhaps ,originating from every object in the observable universe and certainly the radiation from the big bang such that for me it is difficult to conceive there is any place where there is nothing..space is full of something ..not an eather mind you just lots of stuff.
Alex
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
At any point , anywhere out there something passes thru any point travelling along a geometrically infinite number of trajectories, from perhaps ,originating from every object in the observable universe and certainly the radiation from the big bang such that for me it is difficult to conceive there is any place where there is nothing..space is full of something ..not an eather mind you just lots of stuff.
Alex
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A good test.

Leave a plastic bottle in a dusty cupboard and see if dust settles inside. Simple science test.

This way you can find out first hand and keep away from secondhand information in books/internet etc.
 
Xelasnave.1947 said:
At any point , anywhere out there something passes thru any point travelling along a geometrically infinite number of trajectories, from perhaps ,originating from every object in the observable universe and certainly the radiation from the big bang such that for me it is difficult to conceive there is any place where there is nothing..space is full of something ..not an eather mind you just lots of stuff.
Alex
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You wouldn't be able to find a volume of space that does not contain photons. It would have to be at absolute zero. And it would have to not even be accessible from anywhere else in the universe, else it would be bombarded by photons from those other places.
 
davewhite04 said:
Leave a plastic bottle in a dusty cupboard and see if dust settles inside. Simple science test.
Click to expand...

an expanding plastic bottle that is rotating around a super massive coke machine that has small drinks fridges orbiting it ?
(coke will likely steel my idea and make an advert now[& not pay me for it], it wont be the first, ok well actually the first i was asked and i said yes, i wasn't paid for it and it made quite a bit of good publicity however now i am particularily liking th eidea of orbiting coke machines and fridges inside a multi coloured galactic orbital frame with zooming views into worlds spinning around...)
 
the difference is, you filled the coke bottle with air
like saying a planet suddenly clicked into existence instantly from nothing...

you are ignoring some pretty big fundamental concepts.
i am well aware of new age(modern forward thinking secular tech orientated) christians who have some science knowledge.
but you need to do your own homework on some things to realize that while some quantum stuff sounds very ... almost divine magical being like... a lot of the other stuff is very basic and practical like building a house
hammers hitting nails
walls being put up.
fundamental concepts that required specific actions that in so define specific natures of those things

like saying imagine a house with completely see through walls and no sound proofing
so anything you say in any room is clearly audible in every other room at the same volume it is spoken

then suggesting that house has the same properties as a normal common house that people live in.

the abstract conceptualization of the principals are critical to the nature of the intrinsic functionality of the modes & processes of direct and indirect laws of physics and unknown physics.

Xelasnave.1947 said:
conceive there is any place where there is nothing
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and where nothing has previously been trajectoried[?] ...
and that what is passing through has come from somewhere else, a few hundred million years ago...
 
DaveC426913 said:
You wouldn't be able to find a volume of space that does not contain photons. It would have to be at absolute zero. And it would have to not even be accessible from anywhere else in the universe, else it would be bombarded by photons from those other places.
Click to expand...
Absolutely.
I sit by the scope when imaging and hold my finger in from of me and wonder how many things must reach it and from where ..
Another thought exercise is to try to imagine the stuck with no ends and all the objects and perhaps creatures it could pass thru in its unending length.
Then imagine every possible trajectory is a never ending stick.
What struck me was your observation about temperature...I probably will be thinking about that all day.
Alex
 
RainbowSingularity said:
that what is passing through has come from somewhere else, a few hundred million years ago
Click to expand...
I often wonder about neutrinos and think of them travelling without ever "stopping" and so when I hold out my finger as I described above believe that it is reasonable to expect that a little piece of every part of the universe along every trajectory is passing thru the countless points you could find in just the tip...and so it would seem reasonable to assume that such is so for every point in the universe...including those points found in the most less dense regions of space...and as you say their ages could be millions of years and perhaps, indeed almost certainly billions of years old...think background radiation..we think of it relating it firstly to the visable spectrum but what other electromagnetic radiation may have set out at that time...I don't know as I have never considered that aspect until now...but why would things be limited to the small part of the spectrum humans can see...what else set out I wonder...
Alex
 
RainbowSingularity said:
the difference is, you filled the coke bottle with air
like saying a planet suddenly clicked into existence instantly from nothing...

you are ignoring some pretty big fundamental concepts.
i am well aware of new age(modern forward thinking secular tech orientated) christians who have some science knowledge.
but you need to do your own homework on some things to realize that while some quantum stuff sounds very ... almost divine magical being like... a lot of the other stuff is very basic and practical like building a house
hammers hitting nails
walls being put up.
fundamental concepts that required specific actions that in so define specific natures of those things

like saying imagine a house with completely see through walls and no sound proofing
so anything you say in any room is clearly audible in every other room at the same volume it is spoken

then suggesting that house has the same properties as a normal common house that people live in.

the abstract conceptualization of the principals are critical to the nature of the intrinsic functionality of the modes & processes of direct and indirect laws of physics and unknown physics.


and where nothing has previously been trajectoried[?] ...
and that what is passing through has come from somewhere else, a few hundred million years ago...
Click to expand...

I answered River's question, and he give a perfect reply.

Continue your quest at a quantum level, you won't find a more perfect answer as River's.
 
The opening post here is an attempt (a) to carry on a discussion from a thread that was closed, and (b) to circumvent the opening poster's ban from posting to our Science subforums.

This thread is closed.

Apologies to the other participants who might have been participating in an interesting discussion. Try another thread, perhaps.
 
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