Time to Evolve?

[John Connellan]

TruthSeeker,

Look up selfish genetics or "the selfish gene", a fascinating theory on how greed and selfishness is programmed into all life. The violence we commonly see is a result of this greed and selfishness.

I still prefer the theory of the cheater defeating mechanism for violent behaviour (and the emotion of anger) but I can see some examples which might be through the genes selfishness alright.

 

[ElectricFetus]

I don't know selfish genetics has a very logical argument: if organism were not selfish they would not survive!

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

I don't see why wanting peace is any less selfish.
The individual wanting peace is just as selfish, he just knows his chances of survival are better without violence. As a species, wanting to be peaceful is more selfish than not. Because it will inevitably negatively affect other species, it requires you only think of your own comfort. Its particularly selfish when you think about it.
I understand what you're saying about the selfish gene, but it applies to everyone. There is nothing altruistic about truthseeker wanting there to be no more violence.

And where have you been fetus?

 

[ElectricFetus]

The 5th dimension having fun with sex demons.

Anyways as the theory goes creatures that wasted time try to help others that were not at least genetic offspring or close genetic relatives is a determent and less productive then only caring about ones self and family. Social animals work together because it provides an advantage for the individual and the genes. Note that most social animals only work together in seeming altruism in tribal groups and will often fight other groups of the same species, this one of the many things predicted by selfish genetic.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I don't see why wanting peace is any less selfish.
The individual wanting peace is just as selfish, he just knows his chances of survival are better without violence. As a species, wanting to be peaceful is more selfish than not. Because it will inevitably negatively affect other species, it requires you only think of your own comfort. Its particularly selfish when you think about it.
I understand what you're saying about the selfish gene, but it applies to everyone. There is nothing altruistic about truthseeker wanting there to be no more violence.

Have you ever thought I could actually want peace for the sake of people? :bugeye:

I wish I was selfish.... it would make my life much better and people would just love me... :bugeye:

I wouldn't be lonely anymore...

 

[ElectricFetus]

Altruist are rare and don’t reproduce as well as greedy people, hence greedy people will always represent the vast majority of the population.

TruthSeeker,
If you could help people at the cost of your own life and health without any form of payment, would you?

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

ts;

Have you ever thought I could actually want peace for the sake of people?

Not for a second.

Altruists aren't "rare" fetus, they are non-existent.

 

[ElectricFetus]

What about mother Teresa?

 

[spuriousmonkey]

and ghandi?

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

and sally struthers?

 

[TruthSeeker]

If you could help people at the cost of your own life and health without any form of payment, would you?

Without even blinking. Yes, sure. I would have carried the cross, if it was my job to do so. I would actually be happy to do that. And, in fact, every Christian should be like that. As far as I know, my life is completely worthless because every attempt that I have to make this world a better place fails miserably. Often it is because of people not allowing me to do anything for them. God doesn't give me any power anyways. If there is any gift I want from God in my birthday, that, is a meaning for my life. Because as far as I know my life is meaningless and worthless.

If life is a movie I'm a mere extra that can be easily replaced in everyone's life. I wish I were one of the main characters, at least for someone... :bugeye:

 

[ElectricFetus]

so you be good... to go to heaven. Or are you just being good because it makes you feel like you’re a good person? Both of those frames are mind are selfish in that your doing it to please your self.

 

[TruthSeeker]

so you be good... to go to heaven. Or are you just being good because it makes you feel like you’re a good person? Both of those frames are mind are selfish in that your doing it to please your self.

I would be good because it is the right thing to do. It is also a part of my nature. I'm the kind of person that would die very quickly on a war. I would never be able to kill anyone, so I would easily get killed. It's part of my personality. It is not just like a clothe that I have, or a believe, it is something that is in me and that cannot get out. It's part of me.

Being good is extremely hard because people seem to hate that. I don't. I like being good, it is part of me, of my personality.

 

[ElectricFetus]

and why do you do the "right thing"? I tell you one thing it isn't genetically programmed into you.

I have played alot of 1ps and have learned from experience that in a war I too would also die quickly!

people don't hate being good, its just most of them can't do it.

 

[TruthSeeker]

and why do you do the "right thing"?

Huuhhh... because it is the right thing to do...
And, again, it is within me to do the right thing.

I tell you one thing it isn't genetically programmed into you.

Maybe it is not genetic, but it is part of my personality and part of my character. It's something I earned very early in life.

I have played alot of 1ps and have learned from experience that in a war I too would also die quickly!

I know what you mean.

people don't hate being good, its just most of them can't do it.

I can't not agree with you on that...
It's not easy...

 

[ElectricFetus]

being selfish is just instinct: what the first thing people think about when there in a fire? them selves. After getting out who do you think they will save first their child or someone elses child?

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

Its a matter of perspective TS because I would consider setting dogs on you to be the "right thing to do". Everyone does what they feel is right. Its just that no one agrees on what is right and wrong.
Some people are brainwashed by the bible into thinking what they think is right is actually wrong but essentially everyone always does what they think is right.
What makes you so sure your idea of right isn't terribly wrong?

No matter what, as fetus said, every act is selfish. Helping someone makes you feel better, thats why you do it, thats selfish.
Even if you would carry a cross, you would be doing it to feel like a martyr and feel good about yourself, which is selfish. By nature everything we do is selfish.
I want to be killed and eaten by hyenas to give back to the earth, at first like your tendencies it seems altruistic but really it makes me happy for the earth to be working properly and so I am being selfish.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Yes thank you Dr Lou Natic, though selfish genetics is only effective if you reproduce, though I don’t think anyone going to argue and say sex isn’t fun just to disprove the effectiveness of selfish genetic theory.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Its a matter of perspective TS because I would consider setting dogs on you to be the "right thing to do". Everyone does what they feel is right. Its just that no one agrees on what is right and wrong.

Which makes the law completely pointless...
No, it is not just a matter of perspective. Killing for no reason, for example, is not right. People agree with that, so we have a law.

Some people are brainwashed by the bible into thinking what they think is right is actually wrong but essentially everyone always does what they think is right.

You know that the law that we have today has its origins in the Ten Commandments that God gave to Moses, do you?

What makes you so sure your idea of right isn't terribly wrong?

It's like an instinct. In my "idea of right" nobody would be sad nor suffering, which makes it imposible for more pain...

No matter what, as fetus said, every act is selfish. Helping someone makes you feel better, thats why you do it, thats selfish.

That's not why I do it. Intention plays an important role here. And in fact, some things that are "right" I only do them because they are right, eventhough they hurt me.

Even if you would carry a cross, you would be doing it to feel like a martyr and feel good about yourself, which is selfish.

It's written in the Bible that we shouldn't do anything for recognition or for any self-sufficiency. Of course we need to take care of ourselves and we can wish things. But what is right should be done just because it is right. It is also written that we usually don't like to do what is right.

By nature everything we do is selfish.

Only if you are self-centered

I want to be killed and eaten by hyenas to give back to the earth, at first like your tendencies it seems altruistic but really it makes me happy for the earth to be working properly and so I am being selfish.

It is only selfish if your intentions are selfish.

 

[TruthSeeker]

being selfish is just instinct: what the first thing people think about when there in a fire? them selves. After getting out who do you think they will save first their child or someone elses child?

That's a matter of self-preservation. That can't be considered selfish. I would be a hypocrite if I would say that I would stop eating to feed people in Africa. Because then I would die without food. I need first to feed myself, so that I can help them. It is not a matter of selfishness, it is a matter of self-sufficiency. Read this:

Matthew 7:3-5
"3 "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
4 "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?
5 "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. "

PS: I don't know if you guys realised, but my intention in the beginning of the thread was not to go into the religion side of it. If you want to discuss some of the religion, that is fine. But, please, let's not turn this into a pure theological discussion.