Truth be known? Christianity was borrowed!

What religions did Judaism borrow from? To my knowledge Judaism is the only monotheistic religion of that region. Unless you mean that there are similar stories in each. If this isn't the case, then ignore what follows. If so, then I guess you'll keep reading on.

Someone once said that real-life things change to legends, but never the other way around. Indeed it can be seen that there are striking similarities between the Bible's OT stories and groups' legends. Now this makes sense since the predominant form of communication was word-of-mouth. Thus eventually a story such as a singular God causing a great flood with an ocean liner vessel in it to save the righteous turns into a polytheistic flood with a quasi-cube boat. That's the nature/flaw of that kind of that communication. Now that doesn't mean that one borrowed from the other; it simply means that an event like that did actually occur. The recently discovered Ebla tablets, dated back before the cunieform, etc., seem to confirm much of what the Bible says. This appears to show that the monotheistic story degenerated into the various polytheisms.
 
jcarl said:
....This appears to show that the monotheistic story degenerated into the various polytheisms.
I believe that the Jewish used to believe in other gods – they only worshipped one though. Anyway, It’s ironic you should mention the flood - are you referring to how the Epic of Gilgamesh was adopted into the Judaism? Or are you suggesting the similarities are just coincidence?

Here is someone’s opinion:

i. Antiquity. The writing of the epic of Gilgamesh has been dated by archaeologists to the third millenium BC. Thus it predates the Genesis account by at least a few centuries.

ii. The general flow of influence. We would expect the greater civilization to have a greater cultural influence on a lesser on. Compared to Babylonia, Israel was a backwater of sorts.

iii. The original source of the myth. Floods are common in the Mesopotamian plains, it is unusual in usually arid Israel. It is easy to see how the flood myth could have originated from some stories told in the Babylonian plains, it is not so easy to see how anyone from Israel could have thought of that myth originally.

iv. The location of the story gives a clue to its origins. The geography of the ark story points towards its Mesopotamian origin. Noah’s ark landed on Mount Ararat, which is at the headwaters of the Tigris and Euphrates.

v. The presence of loan words. The Akkadian word for pitch (or bitumen): kofer. This is precisely the word used in the Genesis story. Nowhere else in the Bible does the word kofer appears except in the story of the flood.


Here’s an interesting site:
Parallels Between Flood Myths

here’s a few I found quite similar:

"coming of the flood on the seventh night" Atrahasis,III,i,37
"after seven days the waters of the flood came" Genesis 7:10

"the decision that mankind is to be destroyed" Ziusudra iv,157-158
"The gods commanded total destruction" Atrahasis II,viii,34
"The great gods decided to make a deluge" Gilgamesh XI,14
"God...decided to make an end of all flesh" Genesis 6:13

"The dove went out and returned" Gilgamesh XI,147
"sent forth the dove and the dove came back to him" Genesis 8:10b-11
"let out the birds and they again returned to the ship" Berossus.

"who protected the seed of mankind" Ziusudra vi,259
"Bring into the ship the seed of life of everything" Gilgamesh XI,27
"to keep their seed alive" Genesis 7:3 (KJV)

"Enki...over the capitals the storm will sweep" Ziusudra iv,156
"He [Enki] told him of the coming of the flood" Atrahasis III,i,37
"God said to Noah...I will bring a flood" Genesis 6:13,17
"Kronos...said...mankind would be destroyed by a flood" Berossus
 
Michael said:
I believe that the Jewish used to believe in other gods – they only worshipped one though.[/B]

According to the Bible, they strayed numerous times from the true God and to these other, pagan idols.

Anyway, It’s ironic you should mention the flood - are you referring to how the Epic of Gilgamesh was adopted into the Judaism?[/B][/Quote]

No, I am suggesting that that isn't the case. It's not coincidence that the two are similar, for I believe that they portray the same story. Look at my last post: the two ideas spring back to an actual event. The Elba tablets confirm that this occurred, along with affirming several other Biblical stories.

Or are you suggesting the similarities are just coincidence?[/B][/Quote]

If two different people wrote about the same event, would we consider the similarities to be coincidence? No.

Here is someone’s opinion:

i. Antiquity. The writing of the epic of Gilgamesh has been dated by archaeologists to the third millenium BC. Thus it predates the Genesis account by at least a few centuries.

ii. The general flow of influence. We would expect the greater civilization to have a greater cultural influence on a lesser on. Compared to Babylonia, Israel was a backwater of sorts.

iii. The original source of the myth. Floods are common in the Mesopotamian plains, it is unusual in usually arid Israel. It is easy to see how the flood myth could have originated from some stories told in the Babylonian plains, it is not so easy to see how anyone from Israel could have thought of that myth originally.

Herein lies the whole idea of Divine Inspiration. It's not easy to see how any Israeli could've thought of the idea. If Moses could be led write about his own death, could he not also be led to write of things before his time?
 
jcarl said:
According to the Bible, they strayed numerous times from the true God and to these other, pagan idols.
True, but that’s not what I was getting at.

To reiterate, a faithful Jewish (back then) believed that there were other gods but only worshiped one. So if there were a Mosses he believed that there were other Gods but only worshipped one God.

jcarl said:
No, I am suggesting that that isn't the case. It's not coincidence that the two are similar, for I believe that they portray the same story. Look at my last post: the two ideas spring back to an actual event.
What event are you referring to? A local flood?

Just because two stories are similar doesn’t mean that the event happened. If that were the case then aliens landed in Roswell. I mean there’s 20 stories about Roswell.

Anyway, I think that the simper answer is probably the correct and in all likelihood the Jewish were influenced by the Mesopotamian culture and subsequently plagiarized the Mesopotamian mythical stories and that is why the flood stories are similar.
 
jcarl said:
If Moses could be led write about his own death, could he not also be led to write of things before his time?
Or someone else may have written it. Which is much more believable wouldn't you say?
 
Directly after the flood of Noah, historians such as Wilkinson and Mallett have proven conclusively from the ancient documents that at one time all the peoples of the earth believed in ONE GOD, supreme, eternal, invisible, Who by the Word of His mouth spoke all things into existence, and that in His character He was loving and good and just. But as Satan will always corrupt whatever he can, we find him corrupting the minds and hearts of men so that they reject the truth. As he has always attempted to receive worship as though he were God and not the servant and creation of God, he drew worship away from God to the end that he might draw it unto himself and so be exalted. He certainly did accomplish his desire to spread his religion throughout the whole world. This is authenticated by God in the Book of Romans, "When they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, until they became vain in their imaginations, and through darkness of heart accepted a corrupted religion to the extent that they worshipped creatures and not the Creator." Remember, Satan was a creature of God (Son of the Morning). Thus we find that where once truth was disseminated amongst men, and all held to that one truth, there later came a day when a vast group turned from God and spread a diabolical form of worship around the world. History bears it out that those of the tribe of Shem that stood with the unchanging truth were in solid opposition to those of Ham who turned away from truth to the devil's lie.
Monotheism turned to polytheism in Babylon.
The polytheistic religion of the enemy began with the trinitarian doctrine. It was way back there in antiquity that the "one God in three persons" idea came into existence. How strange that our modern theologians have not spotted this; but evidently just as duped by Satan as their forebears were, they still believe in three persons in the Godhead. Let us be shown just one place in Scripture where there is any authority for that doctrine. Is it not strange that while the descendants of Ham went on their way in Satanic worship which involved a basic concept of three gods that there is not one trace of the descendants of Shem believing such a thing or having any ceremonial worship that involved even a type of it? It is not strange that the Hebrews believed, "Hear, O Israel, the Lord thy God is ONE God", if there were three persons in the Godhead? Abraham, the descendant of Shem, in Genesis 18 saw only ONE God with two angels.

Now how was this trinity expressed? It was expressed by an equilateral triangle even as it is expressed in Rome today. Strange, the Hebrews did not have such a concept. Now who is right? Is it the Hebrews or the Babylonians? In Asia the polytheistic idea of three gods in one came out in an image with three heads on one body. He is expressed as three intelligences. In India, they found it in their hearts to express him as one god in three forms. Now that really is good modern day theology. In Japan there is a great Buddha with three heads like the one we previously described. But the most revealing of all is that which sets forth the trinitarian concept of God in a triune form of: 1. The head of an old man symbolizing God the Father, 2. A circle which in the mysteries signified "Seed" which in turn means the Son. 3. The wings and tail of a bird (dove). Here was the doctrine of Father, Son and Holy Ghost, three persons in the Godhead, a veritable trinity. You can see the same thing in Rome.
Now that is what modern theologians try to tell us when they talk about a trinity.
According to history it did not take long for a change to be made in this concept of a Father and a Son and the Holy Ghost. Satan took them a step at a time away from the truth. The evolved concept of Deity was now: 1. The eternal father, 2. The Spirit of God incarnate in a HUMAN mother. (Does that make you think?) 3. A Divine Son, the fruit of that incarnation, (Woman's seed).

But the devil is not content. He hasn't achieved worship of himself yet, except in an indirect way. So he takes the people away from the truth still further. Through his mysteries he reveals to the people that since the great invisible father God does not concern himself in the affairs of men, but remains silent relative to them, then it follows that he may well be worshipped in silence. Actually it means to ignore him as much as possible, if not altogether. This doctrine spread around the world also, and right today in India you can see that temples to the great creator, the silent god, are strikingly few in number.
Since it was not necessary to worship the creator-father, it was only natural that worship swung to the "Mother and Child" as the objects of adoration. In Egypt there was the same combination of mother and son called Isis and Osiris. In India it was Isi and Iswara. (Note the similarity of names even.) In Asia it was Cybele and Deoius. In Rome and in Greece it followed suit. And in China. Well, imagine the surprise of some Roman Catholic missionaries as they entered China and found there a Madonna and Child with rays of light emanating from the head of the babe. The image could well have been exchanged for one in the Vatican except for the difference of certain facial features.
All that survived after the flood were Noah, his three sons and their wifes.
All the world belived in One God untill Nimrod, and from there you get your similar accounts of the same things, but twisted into Gods instead of the One God.
The most ancient and accurate is the Genesis account, and this is only a small exerpt of how this happened.
 
TheVisitor said:
Directly after the flood of Noah, historians such as Wilkinson and Mallett have proven conclusively from the ancient documents that at one time all the peoples of the earth believed in ONE GOD, supreme, eternal, invisible, Who by the Word of His mouth spoke all things into existence, and that in His character He was loving and good and just.
Cute :) seeing as there is no evidence for a world-wide flood! Anyway, can you provide a link to a book of some sorts and a quotation stating what you have stated. How else agrees with this statement that is also qualified? I mean it's like me saying: Historians like Michael have PROVEN CONDLUSIVELY that after the flood of Noah all peoples of the Earth worshipped and loved Satan because he took away the waters from the tyrannical evil Flood-God Jehovah.

But I digress, what about the Japanese? Did they believe in the same ONE god? IS that proven? Also, just wondering, in what year did the waters subside?
 
It wasn't meant to be "cute".
It was meant to refute lies and disinformation, that have been used to deceive the masses.
As for there not being any evidence for a world-wide flood.......thats a classic example of the atheist agenda at work.
Some people are so bent on proving the bible wrong that no amount of proof would convince them otherwise, but thats really more of a personal problem than a lack of evidence.
How do you "explain away" fossils of ocean life organisms found on the top of Mount Everest 29,500 ft. above sea level, or wooden planks and pictures of a large boat frozen beneath the ice at exactly the place on Mount Arat the bible said the Ark landed.
My point is not to debate or argue with anyone but only to stand for the truth, and offer it to those who are willing to listen.
Feel free to do a search on the matter if you won't take these two reputable historians as sources.
As for the date the waters went down..........somewhere around 2500B.C. according to the bible.
If some other sources disagree, then I guess you'll have to decide who to believe.
I posted more of this article in 1+1+1=1 Trinty thread, if you care to read it.
It talks more of these religious beliefs of china, india, and japan being started from a common source.
Also Job is considered to be the oldest book in the bible, and Job's comforters were oriental, yet believed in the same One God at the time.
 
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Here is the whole article.
It explains how the religions of the ancient world started.
After reading this you will see that christianty was not "borrowed".

The ancient histories agree with the Bible that this Babylonish religion was most certainly not the original religion of earth's early peoples. It was the first to drift away from the original faith; but it was not itself the original one. Historians such as Wilkinson and Mallett have proven conclusively from the ancient documents that at one time all the peoples of the earth believed in ONE GOD, supreme, eternal, invisible, Who by the Word of His mouth spoke all things into existence, and that in His character He was loving and good and just. But as Satan will always corrupt whatever he can, we find him corrupting the minds and hearts of men so that they reject the truth. As he has always attempted to receive worship as though he were God and not the servant and creation of God, he drew worship away from God to the end that he might draw it unto himself and so be exalted. He certainly did accomplish his desire to spread his religion throughout the whole world. This is authenticated by God in the Book of Romans, "When they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, until they became vain in their imaginations, and through darkness of heart accepted a corrupted religion to the extent that they worshipped creatures and not the Creator." Remember, Satan was a creature of God (Son of the Morning). Thus we find that where once truth was disseminated amongst men, and all held to that one truth, there later came a day when a vast group turned from God and spread a diabolical form of worship around the world. History bears it out that those of the tribe of Shem that stood with the unchanging truth were in solid opposition to those of Ham who turned away from truth to the devil's lie. There is no time to engage in a discussion of this; it is merely introduced that you may see there were two religions and two only, and the evil one became world wide.

Monotheism turned to polytheism in Babylon. The devil's lie and the devil's mysteries rose up against the truth of God and the mysteries of God in that city. Satan truly became the god of this world and exacted worship from those that he had duped, causing them to believe that he was truly the Lord.

The polytheistic religion of the enemy began with the trinitarian doctrine. It was way back there in antiquity that the "one God in three persons" idea came into existence. How strange that our modern theologians have not spotted this; but evidently just as duped by Satan as their forebears were, they still believe in three persons in the Godhead. Let us be shown just one place in Scripture where there is any authority for that doctrine. Is it not strange that while the descendants of Ham went on their way in Satanic worship which involved a basic concept of three gods that there is not one trace of the descendants of Shem believing such a thing or having any ceremonial worship that involved even a type of it? It is not strange that the Hebrews believed, "Hear, O Israel, the Lord thy God is ONE God", if there were three persons in the Godhead? Abraham, the descendant of Shem, in Genesis 18 saw only ONE God with two angels.

Now how was this trinity expressed? It was expressed by an equilateral triangle even as it is expressed in Rome today. Strange, the Hebrews did not have such a concept. Now who is right? Is it the Hebrews or the Babylonians? In Asia the polytheistic idea of three gods in one came out in an image with three heads on one body. He is expressed as three intelligences. In India, they found it in their hearts to express him as one god in three forms. Now that really is good modern day theology. In Japan there is a great Buddha with three heads like the one we previously described. But the most revealing of all is that which sets forth the trinitarian concept of God in a triune form of: 1. The head of an old man symbolizing God the Father, 2. A circle which in the mysteries signified "Seed" which in turn means the Son. 3. The wings and tail of a bird (dove). Here was the doctrine of Father, Son and Holy Ghost, three persons in the Godhead, a veritable trinity. You can see the same thing in Rome. Now let me ask once again, is it not strange that the devil and his worshipers actually had more truth revealed than the father of faith, (Abraham) and his descendants? Is it not strange that the worshipers of Satan, knew more about God than the children of God? Now that is what modern theologians try to tell us when they talk about a trinity. Just remember this one thing from now on: these records are facts and this is a fact--Satan is a liar and the father of lies, and whenever he comes with any light it is still a lie. He is a murderer. And his doctrine of the trinity has destroyed the multitudes and will destroy until Jesus comes.

According to history it did not take long for a change to be made in this concept of a Father and a Son and the Holy Ghost. Satan took them a step at a time away from the truth. The evolved concept of Deity was now: 1. The eternal father, 2. The Spirit of God incarnate in a HUMAN mother. (Does that make you think?) 3. A Divine Son, the fruit of that incarnation, (Woman's seed).

But the devil is not content. He hasn't achieved worship of himself yet, except in an indirect way. So he takes the people away from the truth still further. Through his mysteries he reveals to the people that since the great invisible father God does not concern himself in the affairs of men, but remains silent relative to them, then it follows that he may well be worshipped in silence. Actually it means to ignore him as much as possible, if not altogether. This doctrine spread around the world also, and right today in India you can see that temples to the great creator, the silent god, are strikingly few in number.
Since it was not necessary to worship the creator-father, it was only natural that worship swung to the "Mother and Child" as the objects of adoration. In Egypt there was the same combination of mother and son called Isis and Osiris. In India it was Isi and Iswara. (Note the similarity of names even.) In Asia it was Cybele and Deoius. In Rome and in Greece it followed suit. And in China. Well, imagine the surprise of some Roman Catholic missionaries as they entered China and found there a Madonna and Child with rays of light emanating from the head of the babe. The image could well have been exchanged for one in the Vatican except for the difference of certain facial features.

It now behooves us to discover the original mother and child.
The original goddess-mother of Babylon was Semiramis who was called Rhea in the eastern countries. In her arms she held a son, who though a babe, was described as tall, strong, handsome and especially captivating to the women. In Ezekiel 8:14 he was called Tammuz. Amongst classical writers he was called Bacchus. To the Babylonians he was Ninus. What accounts for the fact that he is represented as a babe in arms and yet described as a great and mighty man is that he is known as the "Husband-Son". One of his titles was "Husband of the Mother", and in India where the two are known as Iswara and Isi, he (the husband) is represented as the babe at the breast of his own wife.

That this Ninus is the Nimrod of the Bible we can affirm by comparing history with the Genesis account. Pompeius said, "Ninus, king of Assyria, changed the ancient moderate ways of life by the desire for conquest. HE WAS THE FIRST WHO CARRIED WAR AGAINST HIS NEIGHBORS. He conquered all nations from Assyria to Lybia as these men knew not the arts of war." Diodorus says, "Ninus was the most ancient of Assyrian kings mentioned in history. Being of warlike disposition he trained many young men rigorously in the arts of war. He brought Babylonia under him while yet there was no city of Babylon." Thus we see this Ninus started to become great in Babylon, built Babel and took over Assyria, becoming its king, and then proceeded to devour other vast territories where the people were unskilled in war and lived in a moderate way as said Pompeius. Now in Genesis 10, speaking of the kingdom of Nimrod it says, "And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh in the land of Shinar. Out of that land went forth Asshur and builded Nineveh, and Calah etc." But the translators made a mistake in translating Asshur as a noun for it is a verb, and in the Chaldee means 'to make strong.' Thus it is Nimrod, who having been made strong (he established his kingdom by building the world's first army which he trained by drilling and through the rigors of hunting) went beyond Shinar with his strong army and subdued nations and built such cities as Nineveh, which was named after him, for even today a chief part of the ruins of that city is called Nimroud!

Since we have discovered who Ninus was, it is now necessary to discover who his father was. According to history it was Bel, the founder of Babylon. (Now it is to be noted here that Bel founded it in the sense that he started this whole move, but it was the son, Ninus, that established it and was the first king etc.) But according to the Scripture, the father of Nimrod was Cush: "And Cush begat Nimrod." Not only is this so but we find that Ham begat Cush. Now, in the Egyptian culture Bel was called Hermes, and Hermes means, "THE SON OF HAM". According to history Hermes was the great prophet of idolatry. He was the interpreter of the gods. Another name by which he was called was Mercury. (Read Acts 14:11-12)

Hyginus says this about that god who was known variously as Bel, Hermes, Mercury etc, "For many ages men lived under the government of Jove (not the Roman Jove, but Jehovah of the Hebrews who predates Roman history) without cities and without laws, and all speaking one language. But after that Mercury (Bel, Cush) interpreted the speeches of men (whence an interpreter is called Hermeneutes) the same individual distributed the nations. Then discord began." It is seen from this that Bel or Cush, the father of Nimrod, originally was the ring leader that led the people away from the true God and encouraged the people as the "interpreter of the gods" to take another form of religion. He encouraged them to go ahead with the tower which his son actually built. This encouragement is what brought the confusion and the division of men, so that he was both, "interpreter and confuser".

Cush, then, was the father of the polytheistic system and when men were deified by men, he of course, became the father of the gods. Now Cush was called Bel. And Bel in Roman mythology was Janus. He is pictured as having two faces and he carried a club by which he confounded and "scattered" the people. Ovid writes that Janus said concerning himself, "the ancients called me Chaos". Thus we find that the Cush of the Bible, the original rebel against monotheism was called Bel, Belus, Hermes, Janus, etc. amongst the ancient peoples. He purported to bring revelations and interpretations from the gods to the people. In so doing he caused the wrath of God to scatter the people, bringing division and confusion.

Now up to this point we have seen whence polytheism or the worship of many gods came. But did you notice that we also found a mention of a man named Cush who was given a title of "the father of the gods."? Did you notice here the old theme of ancient mythologies, that gods identify themselves with men? That is where ancestor worship comes from. So we might just examine history to find out about ancestor worship. Well, it was brought out that Cush introduced a three god worship of father, son and spirit. Three gods who were all equal. But he knew about the seed of the woman coming, so there would have to be a woman and her seed come into the picture. This was brought to pass when Nimrod died. His wife, Semiramis deified him, and thus made herself the mother of the son and also the mother of the gods. (Just exactly as the Roman church has deified Mary. They claim she was without sin and was the Mother of God.) She (Semiramis) called Nimrod "Zeroashta" which means, "the woman's promised seed".

But it wasn't too long until the woman began to attract more attention than the son, and soon she was the one who was depicted as trampling underfoot the serpent. They called her "the queen of the heaven" and made her divine. How like today wherein Mary, the mother of Jesus, had been elevated to immortality and in September 1964 the Vatican council attempted to give a quality to Mary she does not possess, for they would like to call her, "Mary the Mediatrix," "Mary the Mother of All Believers," or "Mother of the Church." If there was ever Babylonish ancestor worship in a religion, it is the religion of the Church of Rome.

Not only was ancestor worship originated in Babylon but so also was the worship of nature. It was in Babylon the gods were identified with the sun and moon, etc. The chief object in nature was the sun which has light giving and heat giving properties and appears to man as a ball of fire in the heavens. Thus the chief god would be the sun god whom they called Baal. Often the sun was depicted as a circle of flame and soon around that flame there appeared a serpent. It wasn't long until the serpent became a symbol of the sun and consequently worshipped. Thus the desire of Satan's heart became full-fledged. He was worshipped as God. His throne was established. His slaves bowed to him.

Can you see now why John in Revelations 17, called her Mystery Babylon, the mother of harlots and abombinations of the Earth.?
It is a perfect type of what we have today...organized religions created by men.
The "Mother Church" is catholism, and her protestant daughters are the harlots and abombinations of the Earth.
They have all exalted themselves against the pure Word of God and taught for doctrine the comandments of men.
This spirit is against God and what was started in Babylon has come down to be manifested in these organizations we have today.
 
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TheVisitor said:
Here is the whole article.
It explains how the religions of the ancient world started.
After reading this you will see that christianty was not "borrowed".
*************
M*W: Have you never heard of the Sumerian stories of creation and the flood, etc.?
*************
The ancient histories agree with the Bible that this Babylonish religion was most certainly not the original religion of earth's early peoples.
*************
M*W: The ancient histories don't just "agree with the Bible," they preceded Genesis. It's well-documented that Genesis is not the oldest book of the Bible.
*************
It was the first to drift away from the original faith; but it was not itself the original one.
*************
M*W: What was the "original faith?"
*************
Historians such as Wilkinson and Mallett have proven conclusively from the ancient documents that at one time all the peoples of the earth believed in ONE GOD, supreme, eternal, invisible, Who by the Word of His mouth spoke all things into existence, and that in His character He was loving and good and just.
*************
M*W: This was during Abraham's time (or earlier) who were monotheistic. In fact, Abraham was the father of Islam because he totally submitted to one god.
*************
But as Satan will always corrupt whatever he can, we find him corrupting the minds and hearts of men so that they reject the truth. As he has always attempted to receive worship as though he were God and not the servant and creation of God, he drew worship away from God to the end that he might draw it unto himself and so be exalted.
*************
M*W: What if it was Satan who created this world?
*************
He certainly did accomplish his desire to spread his religion throughout the whole world. This is authenticated by God in the Book of Romans, "When they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, until they became vain in their imaginations, and through darkness of heart accepted a corrupted religion to the extent that they worshipped creatures and not the Creator."
*************
M*W: The Book of Romans was written by Paul, a self-serving man who never knew Jesus. I think you are correct in your statement, because I think Paul is the Antichrist. The "corrupted religion" refers to Christianity.
*************
Remember, Satan was a creature of God (Son of the Morning). Thus we find that where once truth was disseminated amongst men, and all held to that one truth, there later came a day when a vast group turned from God and spread a diabolical form of worship around the world. History bears it out that those of the tribe of Shem that stood with the unchanging truth were in solid opposition to those of Ham who turned away from truth to the devil's lie. There is no time to engage in a discussion of this; it is merely introduced that you may see there were two religions and two only, and the evil one became world wide.
*************
M*W: "...there later came a day when a vast group turned from God and spread a diabolical form of worship around the world," refers to Christianity.
*************
Monotheism turned to polytheism in Babylon. The devil's lie and the devil's mysteries rose up against the truth of God and the mysteries of God in that city. Satan truly became the god of this world and exacted worship from those that he had duped, causing them to believe that he was truly the Lord.
*************
M*W: Monotheism covered Abraham and the Jews. Polytheism refers to Christianity, the Trinity, the Apostles as gods, all ruled by Satan who caused "them to believe that he was truly the Lord."
*************
The polytheistic religion of the enemy began with the trinitarian doctrine. It was way back there in antiquity that the "one God in three persons" idea came into existence. How strange that our modern theologians have not spotted this; but evidently just as duped by Satan as their forebears were, they still believe in three persons in the Godhead. Let us be shown just one place in Scripture where there is any authority for that doctrine. Is it not strange that while the descendants of Ham went on their way in Satanic worship which involved a basic concept of three gods that there is not one trace of the descendants of Shem believing such a thing or having any ceremonial worship that involved even a type of it? It is not strange that the Hebrews believed, "Hear, O Israel, the Lord thy God is ONE God", if there were three persons in the Godhead? Abraham, the descendant of Shem, in Genesis 18 saw only ONE God with two angels.
*************
M*W: The trinity comprises three gods in one. This is polytheism because Christians pray to God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, not just One God.
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Now how was this trinity expressed? It was expressed by an equilateral triangle even as it is expressed in Rome today. Strange, the Hebrews did not have such a concept. Now who is right? Is it the Hebrews or the Babylonians? In Asia the polytheistic idea of three gods in one came out in an image with three heads on one body. He is expressed as three intelligences. In India, they found it in their hearts to express him as one god in three forms. Now that really is good modern day theology. In Japan there is a great Buddha with three heads like the one we previously described. But the most revealing of all is that which sets forth the trinitarian concept of God in a triune form of: 1. The head of an old man symbolizing God the Father, 2. A circle which in the mysteries signified "Seed" which in turn means the Son. 3. The wings and tail of a bird (dove). Here was the doctrine of Father, Son and Holy Ghost, three persons in the Godhead, a veritable trinity. You can see the same thing in Rome. Now let me ask once again, is it not strange that the devil and his worshipers actually had more truth revealed than the father of faith, (Abraham) and his descendants? Is it not strange that the worshipers of Satan, knew more about God than the children of God? Now that is what modern theologians try to tell us when they talk about a trinity. Just remember this one thing from now on: these records are facts and this is a fact--Satan is a liar and the father of lies, and whenever he comes with any light it is still a lie. He is a murderer. And his doctrine of the trinity has destroyed the multitudes and will destroy until Jesus comes.
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M*W: For the most part, I agree with you. The trinity takes away belief in the one god. The trinity distracts one from their creator. The trinity is a satanic detour from god.
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According to history it did not take long for a change to be made in this concept of a Father and a Son and the Holy Ghost. Satan took them a step at a time away from the truth. The evolved concept of Deity was now: 1. The eternal father, 2. The Spirit of God incarnate in a HUMAN mother. (Does that make you think?) 3. A Divine Son, the fruit of that incarnation, (Woman's seed).
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M*W: These are myths and not reality.
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But the devil is not content. He hasn't achieved worship of himself yet, except in an indirect way. So he takes the people away from the truth still further. Through his mysteries he reveals to the people that since the great invisible father God does not concern himself in the affairs of men, but remains silent relative to them, then it follows that he may well be worshipped in silence. Actually it means to ignore him as much as possible, if not altogether. This doctrine spread around the world also, and right today in India you can see that temples to the great creator, the silent god, are strikingly few in number.
Since it was not necessary to worship the creator-father, it was only natural that worship swung to the "Mother and Child" as the objects of adoration. In Egypt there was the same combination of mother and son called Isis and Osiris. In India it was Isi and Iswara. (Note the similarity of names even.) In Asia it was Cybele and Deoius. In Rome and in Greece it followed suit. And in China. Well, imagine the surprise of some Roman Catholic missionaries as they entered China and found there a Madonna and Child with rays of light emanating from the head of the babe. The image could well have been exchanged for one in the Vatican except for the difference of certain facial features.
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M*W: The virgin birth, Jesus' crucifixion, and his resurrection, are all depicted in the earlier texts. There were some 16 dying demigod saviors out there before Jesus.
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It now behooves us to discover the original mother and child.
The original goddess-mother of Babylon was Semiramis who was called Rhea in the eastern countries. In her arms she held a son, who though a babe, was described as tall, strong, handsome and especially captivating to the women. In Ezekiel 8:14 he was called Tammuz. Amongst classical writers he was called Bacchus. To the Babylonians he was Ninus. What accounts for the fact that he is represented as a babe in arms and yet described as a great and mighty man is that he is known as the "Husband-Son". One of his titles was "Husband of the Mother", and in India where the two are known as Iswara and Isi, he (the husband) is represented as the babe at the breast of his own wife.
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M*W: There are millions of icons worldwide that represent alternate forms of Christian beliefs.
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That this Ninus is the Nimrod of the Bible we can affirm by comparing history with the Genesis account. Pompeius said,
"Ninus, king of Assyria, changed the ancient moderate ways of life by the desire for conquest. HE WAS THE FIRST WHO CARRIED WAR AGAINST HIS NEIGHBORS. He conquered all nations from Assyria to Lybia as these men knew not the arts of war." Diodorus says, "Ninus was the most ancient of Assyrian kings mentioned in history. Being of warlike disposition he trained many young men rigorously in the arts of war. He brought Babylonia under him while yet there was no city of Babylon." Thus we see this Ninus started to become great in Babylon, built Babel and took over Assyria, becoming its king, and then proceeded to devour other vast territories where the people were unskilled in war and lived in a moderate way as said Pompeius. Now in Genesis 10, speaking of the kingdom of Nimrod it says, "And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh in the land of Shinar. Out of that land went forth Asshur and builded Nineveh, and Calah etc." But the translators made a mistake in translating Asshur as a noun for it is a verb, and in the Chaldee means 'to make strong.' Thus it is Nimrod, who having been made strong (he established his kingdom by building the world's first army which he trained by drilling and through the rigors of hunting) went beyond Shinar with his strong army and subdued nations and built such cities as Nineveh, which was named after him, for even today a chief part of the ruins of that city is called Nimroud!
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M*W: There has always been a tug-of-war between good and evil, positivity and negativity.
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Since we have discovered who Ninus was, it is now necessary to discover who his father was. According to history it was Bel, the founder of Babylon. (Now it is to be noted here that Bel founded it in the sense that he started this whole move, but it was the son, Ninus, that established it and was the first king etc.) But according to the Scripture, the father of Nimrod was Cush: "And Cush begat Nimrod." Not only is this so but we find that Ham begat Cush. Now, in the Egyptian culture Bel was called Hermes, and Hermes means, "THE SON OF HAM". According to history Hermes was the great prophet of idolatry. He was the interpreter of the gods. Another name by which he was called was Mercury. (Read Acts 14:11-12)
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M*W: I thought Mercury was a mythological god.
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Hyginus says this about that god who was known variously as Bel, Hermes, Mercury etc, "For many ages men lived under the government of Jove (not the Roman Jove, but Jehovah of the Hebrews who predates Roman history) without cities and without laws, and all speaking one language. But after that Mercury (Bel, Cush) interpreted the speeches of men (whence an interpreter is called Hermeneutes) the same individual distributed the nations. Then discord began." It is seen from this that Bel or Cush, the father of Nimrod, originally was the ring leader that led the people away from the true God and encouraged the people as the "interpreter of the gods" to take another form of religion. He encouraged them to go ahead with the tower which his son actually built. This encouragement is what brought the confusion and the division of men, so that he was both, "interpreter and confuser".
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M*W: Mercury was a messenger.
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Cush, then, was the father of the polytheistic system and when men were deified by men, he of course, became the father of the gods. Now Cush was called Bel. And Bel in Roman mythology was Janus. He is pictured as having two faces and he carried a club by which he confounded and "scattered" the people. Ovid writes that Janus said concerning himself, "the ancients called me Chaos". Thus we find that the Cush of the Bible, the original rebel against monotheism was called Bel, Belus, Hermes, Janus, etc. amongst the ancient peoples. He purported to bring revelations and interpretations from the gods to the people. In so doing he caused the wrath of God to scatter the people, bringing division and confusion.
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M*W: Hermes is symbolized as a cadeusus.
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Now up to this point we have seen whence polytheism or the worship of many gods came. But did you notice that we also found a mention of a man named Cush who was given a title of "the father of the gods."? Did you notice here the old theme of ancient mythologies, that gods identify themselves with men? That is where ancestor worship comes from. So we might just examine history to find out about ancestor worship. Well, it was brought out that Cush introduced a three god worship of father, son and spirit. Three gods who were all equal. But he knew about the seed of the woman coming, so there would have to be a woman and her seed come into the picture. This was brought to pass when Nimrod died. His wife, Semiramis deified him, and thus made herself the mother of the son and also the mother of the gods. (Just exactly as the Roman church has deified Mary. They claim she was without sin and was the Mother of God.) She (Semiramis) called Nimrod "Zeroashta" which means, "the woman's promised seed".
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M*W: There are many comparisons between older gods and religions and the RCC,
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But it wasn't too long until the woman began to attract more attention than the son, and soon she was the one who was depicted as trampling underfoot the serpent. They called her "the queen of the heaven" and made her divine. How like today wherein Mary, the mother of Jesus, had been elevated to immortality and in September 1964 the Vatican council attempted to give a quality to Mary she does not possess, for they would like to call her, "Mary the Mediatrix," "Mary the Mother of All Believers," or "Mother of the Church." If there was ever Babylonish ancestor worship in a religion, it is the religion of the Church of Rome.
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M*W: I certainly cannot disagree with this.
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Not only was ancestor worship originated in Babylon but so also was the worship of nature. It was in Babylon the gods were identified with the sun and moon, etc. The chief object in nature was the sun which has light giving and heat giving properties and appears to man as a ball of fire in the heavens. Thus the chief god would be the sun god whom they called Baal. Often the sun was depicted as a circle of flame and soon around that flame there appeared a serpent. It wasn't long until the serpent became a symbol of the sun and consequently worshipped. Thus the desire of Satan's heart became full-fledged. He was worshipped as God. His throne was established. His slaves bowed to him.
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M*W: The serpent actually doesn't represent evil. The serpent represents wisdom and healing.
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Can you see now why John in Revelations 17, called her Mystery Babylon, the mother of harlots and abombinations of the Earth.?
It is a perfect type of what we have today...organized religions created by men. The "Mother Church" is catholism, and her protestant daughters are the harlots and abombinations of the Earth. They have all exalted themselves against the pure Word of God and taught for doctrine the comandments of men.
This spirit is against God and what was started in Babylon has come down to be manifested in these organizations we have today.
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M*W: I couldn't agree with you more. Good post.
 
TheVisitor said:
As for there not being any evidence for a world-wide flood.......thats a classic example of the atheist agenda at work.
X files aye?

TheVisitor said:
Some people are so bent on proving the bible wrong that no amount of proof would convince them otherwise, but thats really more of a personal problem than a lack of evidence.
”prove the Bible wrong” means nothing and is endemic of the way you think. Visitor your thinking is so skewed it isn’t even funny.

Let me give you an example. Here’s my Bible.
I Michael created the world. The world revolves around the sun. A^2 + B2 = C^2 for certain triangles. I am three like a triangle and I am god.

Is it right or wrong?

TheVisitor said:
How do you "explain away" fossils of ocean life organisms found on the top of Mount Everest 29,500 ft. above sea level,
If that was the case then I’d say that part of the Earth was covered in water before it rose to it’s present heights.

TheVisitor said:
…. or wooden planks and pictures of a large boat frozen beneath the ice at exactly the place on Mount Arat the bible said the Ark landed.
If this was the case why hasn’t someone gone up there and did a little archeology? Me thinks you made this one up or are pure gullible. Think for one minute. If there were a huge Boat on Mt Arat don’t you think that at least one church in the last 2000 years would go up there and dig it up? And please don’t tell me it’s to cold!

TheVisitor said:
My point is not to debate or argue with anyone but only to stand for the truth, and offer it to those who are willing to listen
And you never did leave a citation so I am assuming that these people haven’t written a reputable book and they’re full of shit. I mean if that were not the case you’d have cited their “world famous” book and you didn’t. Which is odd – according to you they are “world famous” historians after all.

TheVisitor said:
As for the date the waters went down..........somewhere around 2500B.C. according to the bible.
That funny because the Japanese along with most other cultures didn’t have a system of writing at that time. OH but I forgot you’re historians can see the past using their god-rings and when held together they say the phrase “wonder-twin-powers-activate” and “poof” back in time they travel!

If not then how would your “world famous super great historians” have known what the hell the Ainu Japanese, Indonesian, Australian Aboriginal, Mori, and a host of many African and American peoples thought about their godS at that time? Those people didn’t write anything down. So why don’t you use your brain for one second and tell me one thing: HOW did these historians know exactly what these people believed?

OH and I’m still waiting on that CITATION …….. if there even is one.


TheVisitor said:
these religious beliefs of China, India, and Japan being started from a common source.
Which says nothing.

I’ll leave you with this: The oldest religion still practiced is Hinduism not Judaism.
 
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