UFO technology Level....

Btw more from what Shulman had once upon a time here:
[WARNING: This Cgi loads a very long list of BBS entries, and it will kill your browser, be patient and increase your cache size if you truly want to view it.]
http://byamerican.com/cgi-bin/archiveast/config.cgi?

(Btw you will find some very "Kooky" post by yours truly when I was younger, thats teh main reason I thought I could deal with this section of Sciforums.com... I *was* like "them" once. At least till I put the drugs down and sobered up.)

As for your evidence using Hoover, some wouldn't of suggested him credible either.

You should also note that they are pointing to a document on the FBI website which is in regards to the Balloons that people had been letting off all over the states with things like Circular saw blades attached to the bottom. What the FBI was upset over was that the US Military was taking control of such crashes/evidence.

However it should be noted that the Japanese during the second world war attempted to use Balloon bombs along with the US's attempts at high altitude surveillance, so in either case the first people that would of wanted to be at the scene would have been the military either to keep their blackproject veiled or to defuse anything that might blowup.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/jbb.htm
 
Credibility is only as good as their critical thinking. Jimmy Carter saw Venus.

Ronald and Nancy Reagan believed in astrology.

George W. Bush believes god wants him to be President.

Adolf Hitler thought there should be a master race.

Lots of otherwise "credible" people believe in everything from magnatherapy to cold fusion to tarot to channelling to creationism and strict literalism of the bible.

Their credibility in areas of personal expertise (i.e. politics, law enforcement, or engineering) isn't in question... it's their belief systems regarding the incredible that is.

The UFO-ETI Community has some very religious-like tendancies, particularly when it comes to accepting doctrine and testimony at face-value. I see you questioning that very notion in the "Religion" forum, but so accepting of it when the belief fits your own worldview.

I wrote a paper on this topic, which I'm considering updating... http://home.earthlink.net/~ctfeagans/uforeligion.htm
 
Stryderunknown said:
(Btw you will find some very "Kooky" post by yours truly when I was younger, thats teh main reason I thought I could deal with this section of Sciforums.com... I *was* like "them" once. At least till I put the drugs down and sobered up.)
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Ha! I used to run a BBS in Germany called "Another Brick In The Wall" and had a huge UFO section! I later started a website in 1995-97 called Alien Implant, moving most of the crap I had to that site. Everything I posted as "proof" was simply anecdotal accounts and some, very obviously concocted, tales of alien abductions, implants, implant removals, close encounters, etc....... ughh... how ignorant and unenlightened I was then :cool:
 
SkinWalker said:
Lots of otherwise "credible" people believe in everything from magnatherapy to cold fusion to tarot to channelling to creationism and strict literalism of the bible.

Their credibility in areas of personal expertise (i.e. politics, law enforcement, or engineering) isn't in question... it's their belief systems regarding the incredible that is.

The UFO-ETI Community has some very religious-like tendancies, particularly when it comes to accepting doctrine and testimony at face-value. I see you questioning that very notion in the "Religion" forum, but so accepting of it when the belief fits your own worldview.[/url]
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Click on this Skinwalker and I hope you just try to disprove the NPC.
http://www.disclosureproject.org/npcwebcast.htm

How can you take a credible individual who you agree is credible and state they are not credible. This is very contradictory to say the least. You mean you believe only what you want to believe of their statments?

UFO's are not a "Religion" they are unidentifyed flying objects.

To except doctrine or testimony in one instance regarding Aliens from another world would be hard to except without physical evidence.

However when you have a group of credible individuals whose testimony cannot be dismissed as anything other than credible such is the case with Gordon Cooper and you add up the all the Airline Pilots testimony this from individuals who have a great risk of loosing credibility and are vastly educated then I tend to take notice of what they say.

How can you believe the "Weather Ballon Story" and everything else our government says is true when in fact it is a lie. Do you believe in Weapons of Mass Destruction in Irac? Maby you are a little Religous about believing everything you hear from the Government?

Here is a link abou Gordon Cooper.
http://www.outoftheblue.tv/clips/clips.html
 
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Of course I'm not denying the existance of ufo's... I'm only skeptical of claims that they explainable only as "alien spacecraft."

When will you get it through your head that social status does not imply credibility? Hell, you brought up the Iraq WMD issue... we were told they were there... so where are they? (rhetorical question... the answer goes to another thread)

UFOs are not a religion, but the "UFO-ETI movement" is very religious-like and, indeed, several religious cults have developed from it: Heaven's Gate, Raelians, et al.

The "weather balloon" story has credibility. It implies a technology that was available, explains the debris, explains the secrecy (the balloons weren't for "weather," they were for high-altitude observation). I'm sorry, but this is the simplest, most probable answer. To believe otherwise, one must embrace a religious-like belief system.
 
SkinWalker said:
Of course I'm not denying the existance of ufo's... I'm only skeptical of claims that they explainable only as "alien spacecraft."
I'm sorry, but this is the simplest, most probable answer. To believe otherwise, one must embrace a religious-like belief system.
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Simple but not probable specialy when you take notice to the memo that Ramey had in his hand discribing the baloon coverstory.

Did you even whatch the complete video from the NPC? Even a skeptic like you will not be able to disavow this compelling evidence.
 
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I did watch the complete video... ages ago. Its old news, you know. I came to the conclusion that much of what was being said was simply self-agrandizing behavior that is common and expected among people. Our common characteristic is that we seek status among our peers. If any of these so-called highly-placed, credible eyewitnesses had supplied a relic or artifact for study and examination, had any of them written a scholarly paper with duplicatable methodology, then they would have had true credibility.

They were living their own self-aggrandizing, deluded fantasies... there's little difference between these people and the attendees of a Star Trek convention. With exception to the costumes. And the fact that most of the ST fans are willing to accept that they are fantasizing.
 
SkinWalker said:
They were living their own self-aggrandizing, deluded fantasies... there's little difference between these people and the attendees of a Star Trek convention. With exception to the costumes. And the fact that most of the ST fans are willing to accept that they are fantasizing.
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I did a survey of a random group of 50 individuals in Las Cruces New Mexico.

The question was simple.

Have Astronauts landed on the moon refering to the Apollo Program?

48 of the 50 answered that we have never landed on the Moon and that it was all Staged in Hollywood in a Soundstage.

This reinforces my statement that common sense is not common.

Without common sense it is hard to assimilate in some cases fact from fiction.

There are some things that some people will not understand because of the limmitations of their thought process. This is more common when reality of the situation is beyond the everyday experience of the individual.
 
You are making my case for me quite well. People (being Homo sapiens) are subject to hardwired tendencies to engage in belief. Those that you sampled were evident of the power of belief. For whatever reason, they have instilled in themselves a system of beliefs that excludes the possibility of human visitation to the Moon. It is not a matter of "common sense," it's a matter of belief.

I did a survey myself of teenagers in Dallas County (n=30) and discovered that nearly all believe that life on the planet began with Creation and people began with Adam and Eve. Only one thought otherwise. That's not a matter of common sense, it's a matter of belief.
 
SkinWalker said:
You are making my case for me quite well. People (being Homo sapiens) are subject to hardwired tendencies to engage in belief. Those that you sampled were evident of the power of belief. For whatever reason, they have instilled in themselves a system of beliefs that excludes the possibility of human visitation to the Moon. It is not a matter of "common sense," it's a matter of belief.

I did a survey myself of teenagers in Dallas County (n=30) and discovered that nearly all believe that life on the planet began with Creation and people began with Adam and Eve. Only one thought otherwise. That's not a matter of common sense, it's a matter of belief.
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On the other side I forgot to mention that 49 of the 50 stated that they did believe in God.

Now Im perplexed, dosen't it take some kind of a sense to understand Religion for what it really is? According to my observation not many can understand the origins of Religion let alone the fact that it is a man made entity.

You can call it a matter of belief I would add that it is a matter of faith vrs common sense.
 
Lets try something different in regards to the truth of Roswell. Let's say it was a spacecraft engineered to travel light years and survive the harshness of space, why prey tell would such an "invincible" craft, crash?

Lets also take into consideration the number of cars on our roads, Okay we know there are alot of accidents however the accidents are in a minority percentage, if Roswell was an alien craft does that mean it's a high percentage that all occupants die from space travel???? If thats the case I wouldn't want to insure spaceflight for aliens.

(This does not cover our own craft which occasionally do have glitches that end in catastrophes)

Another question there would be where are all the other "Space hogs"?

As for religion, it's just an enforced belief system to keep the Lower classes from beheading the state heirarchy.
 
Stryderunknown said:
Lets if Roswell was an alien craft does that mean it's a high percentage that all occupants die from space travel???? If thats the case I wouldn't want to insure spaceflight for aliens.
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Not all occupants die that is evident with our own space program.
 
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I'd ask Stryder to delete that last line as derogatory and disrespectful towards the 7 people who had gave their lives for science... except I'm naught sure what an astronaught is.

I'd suggest as reading materials Ramachandran and Boyer, both of which I've cited elsewhere, in order to further your knowlege and insight in the quest for discovering why people believe in gods and religion.

I'd also suggest Michael Shermer's Why People Believe Weird Things as well as Why Smart People Believe Weird Things (the sequal).

I also see it as ironic that you criticize those who cling to religion whilst clinging to the UFO-ETI notion like it's a raft in the ocean :cool: The belief systems in charge of sustaining and justifying the core tenets of each are more similar than dissimilar.
 
Starman

Excuse me! What the hell is that supposed to mean? I do not care for jokes of that ilk. Making fun of a tragic accident is banning material in my book.

[Edited by Stryder]
I apologise for editing since the poster didn't write anything to be edited, it's just I've removed the comment that sparked complaint because of the complaints and therefore had to edit.
 
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I too think that "joke" was in extremely bad taste.
Is that how low you have to stoop to make a point? Are you really that devoid of substance?
 
Now do you see my point about how even people who profess to have "common sense" can lose credibility?
 
SkinWalker said:
Now do you see my point about how even people who profess to have "common sense" can lose credibility?
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I appoligise for the joke. I never ment any disrespect for the people who have given their lives for the Space Program.

I used a poor example the dangers of Space Exploration. I was trying to explain that Space travel is dangerous to almost all life forms. I do not believe you can compare Space travel to other modes of travel here on Earth.

And what is "Common Sense".

according to the dictionary.

1 : the unreflective opinions of ordinary people
2 : sound and prudent but often unsophisticated judgment

I am in no way ordinary however I am unsophisticated. So I am unsure if I possess a common sense for my thoughts are not often common.
 
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Boris2 said:
http://www.visi.com/~markg/haunted.html

you might be interested in this read on belief......
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To discover that the Universe is some 8 to 15 billion years and not 6 to 12 thousand years old improves our appreciation of its sweep and grandeur; to entertain the notion that we are a particularly complex arrangement of atoms, and not some breath of divinity, at the very least enhances our respect for atoms; to discover, as now seems probable, that our planet is one of billions of other worlds in the Milky Way Galaxy and that our galaxy is one of billions more, majestically expands the arena of what is possible; to find that our ancestors were also the ancestors of apes ties us to the rest of life and makes possible important - if occaisionally rueful - reflections on human nature. Carl Sagan.
 
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