UFOs (UAPs): Explanations?

[DaveC426913]

LOL... In 2003 not alot of people had smart phones back then.

Yeah, "only" one-in-three people back then (That's a paltry 100 million Americans).

So if there were any more than two people in that (what did he say?) "large group" of Boeing contractors that day...


Also, "In 2003, more camera phones were sold worldwide than stand-alone digital cameras", so there's that.

Lesson here discerning readers: don't let researching facts stand in the way of a good, awkward "LOL"...


Just for gits and shiggles, if that "large group" of contractors were more than ten, the chance that none of them had a camera phone are approx one in ten thousand.

If 20 contractors constitutes a "large group" then the chances are less than one in a billion.

 

[Magical Realist]

"In 2003, more camera phones were sold worldwide than stand-alone digital cameras", so there's that.

Yeah I checked on that. Here's the complete stat that you dishonestly snipped:

"Cameras on cell phones proved popular right from the start, as indicated by the J-Phone in Japan having had more than half of its subscribers using cell phone cameras in two years. The world soon followed. In 2003, more camera phones were sold worldwide than stand-alone digital cameras largely due to growth in Japan and Korea."---- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camera_phone#:~:text=The first commercial camera phone was the Kyocera Visual Phone,in Japan in May 1999.

So there's that...lol

 

[DaveC426913]

Yeah I checked on that. Here's the complete stat that you dishonestly snipped:

"Cameras on cell phones proved popular right from the start, as indicated by the J-Phone in Japan having had more than half of its subscribers using cell phone cameras in two years. The world soon followed. In 2003, more camera phones were sold worldwide than stand-alone digital cameras largely due to growth in Japan and Korea."---- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camera_phone#:~:text=The first commercial camera phone was the Kyocera Visual Phone,in Japan in May 1999.

So there's that...lol

Exactly, "phones sold worldwide" thanks to Japan and Korea leading the pack.

I am proud as punch that our MR is actually learning to check facts. A little too late this time to avoid having to eat his words, but progress is progress...

Back to the point. People have been snapping pics of UAPs for a large fraction of a century, but this "large group" of engineers, here in the 21st century, failed - not once, but twice - to nab a single shot, even when they had a 45 second window
And none of them had a single regular camera between them. That day OR the next.

And, apparently, not a single security camera on the whole base...

And no operating radar.


I suspect this Graves guy is actually playing for the other team. What he has done here is tell the account of what can only be described as The Holy Grail of sightings - a recent (21st century) account, of a large group of professional aircraft contractors, on a military base, surrounded by trained military, where there is radar, and the account spanned , not merely 45 seconds, but TWO DAYS. You just can't get much better than that.

The best possible chance - the UFO enthusiast's wet dream - and they STILL can't produce an iota of evidence.

 

[Magical Realist]

this "large group" of engineers, here in the 21st century, failed - not once, but twice - to nab a single shot, even when they had a 45 second window.

LOL...Guess these American engineers just didn't have their Japanese camera phones with them at that time.

 

[DaveC426913]

In 2003, virtually all smartphones - including those owned by Americans - were made in Asia. 90% of Apple phones were made in China.

Not sure why you care where they were made, except as an attempt at distraction.

:LOLs getting more awkward:

 

[C C]

There were two new previously unreported and multiply-witnessed UAP encounters relayed by Ryan Graves during Wednesday's Congressional hearing:

[...] https://thedebrief.org/the-congressional-hearing-on-uap-what-we-learned-from-yesterdays-testimony/

Mick West (below) actually quotes the part where Graves says the incidents were officially documented. But no one has been able to locate them yet (or sadly, maybe aren't even trying to). If granting that they do exist, any images would be just as difficult to find -- either still held by some of the original workers or maybe attached to the reports. Most likely no one took any, but if they did, it's no mystery why they're not available since the reports themselves haven't turned up.

https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ry...00-yard-red-square-over-vandenberg-afb.13066/

_

 

[Yazata]

Access to most of Vandenberg is tightly controlled, with only military and necessary civilian contractors allowed. I would assume that use of cameras is restricted. They will almost certainly be subject to non-disclosure agreements either as condition of employment or as part of a security clearance process.

So any photographs that were or weren't taken are probably the property of the government.

 

[DaveC426913]

So any photographs that were or weren't taken are probably the property of the government.

Why does he even bother to mention this account? Not just no photos, but no eyewitness testimony. It's just straight up gossip.

I don't think he could have chosen a less credible account if his life depended on it. It's ... bizarre.

 

[Magical Realist]

Grave's testimony under oath is a solid example of how the uap phenomenon defies expectations at every turn. Just when we're thinking tic tacs and metallic spheres, a giant red square the size of a football field pops up that is multiply-witnessed near a military base, Every account is important in our trying to understand this mystifying phenomenon. That's why it is vital such incidents be reported and be made public. They also serve to refute the skeptic's habitual one line reaction demonstrated here by Dave of "nothing to see here move along." There's SOMETHING extraordinary going on here. That's for sure. And ever data point is another piece of the puzzle.

 

[DaveC426913]

Every account..."

Ah. But there's the rub.

It's not an account.

It's hearsay. Literally gossip.

 

[foghorn]

Sue Gough, a Pentagon spokesperson, tells TIME in a statement.
"To date, the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO) has not discovered any verifiable information to substantiate claims that any programs regarding the possession or reverse-engineering of extraterrestrial materials have existed in the past or exist currently, "
https://time.com/6298287/congress-ufo-hearing/

All together now...They would say that wouldn’t they.

 

[foghorn]

The most interesting bit to me is that members of Congress who have heard the classified briefings are starting to look like they believe that the American (and world) people are being bullshitted. I'd like to see them try to make that case without revealing classified information.

Believer Yazata talks for the people of the world and how they are ''bullshitted''.

 

[DaveC426913]

This distribution of sightings is kind of awkward to explain.


(Full disclosure: the provenance of this rendering and the data it's based on is not clear. Could use confirmation.)

In case you're wondering, it does not correspond with worldwide population density.

 

[exchemist]

This distribution of sightings is kind of awkward to explain.

View attachment 5520

In case you're wondering, it does not correspond with worldwide population density.

The Netherlands is interesting. But they speak excellent English and watch a lot of UK and US TV.

 

[C C]

This distribution of sightings is kind of awkward to explain.

View attachment 5520
(Full disclosure: the provenance of this rendering and the data it's based on is not clear. Could use confirmation.)

In case you're wondering, it does not correspond with worldwide population density.

It's also a matter of how conviently UFOs could even be officially reported in countries outside the Anglophone world. Or the availability and receptivity of local authorities to such a thing and bothering to earnestly file it. Especially back in the days before the internet and devices (and repression of information in some authoritarian-like states during the 20th-century).

Entrepreneurs, media, and market wizards in the U.S. were once at the forefront of recognizing oddball items and trends that could be capitalized upon with some additional tweaking and proper formatting. And afterward accommodating those who become interested/addicted. With the rest of the English-speaking domain picking up on _X_ next, and then gradually spreading (like Rock'n'Roll) to the rest of the globe (or not).

Mystery airships sightings encouraged by yellow journalism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_airship

Aurora, Texas incident (1897)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora,_Texas,_UFO_incident

_

 

[C C]

Browsing the prominent headlines, appeared all of this was going to die with a whimper. Nothing about further hearings interrogating Grusch's list of witnessess. Congress reported as feeling too embarrassed after the last one ("like an investigation of professional wrestling").

But... NewsNation ... again.

Lawmakers raise possibility of UFO select committee
https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/lawmakers-raise-possibility-of-ufo-select-committee/

EXCERPTS: Rep. Tim Burchett, R-Tenn., has asked for more UFO hearings, and House Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer tells NewsNation there’s a strong possibility Burchett will get them.

[...] “There are other authorities that would require the establishment of a select committee, and we’re going to be chatting with the speaker about those things in the coming days,” said Rep. Matt Gaetz, R-Fla.

If a select committee is formed, that group could have the power to subpoena records, images, videos and even testimony from people under oath.

Congress is [...] hoping to get whistleblower David Grusch into a SCIF, a private, secure room inside the Capitol. Lawmakers want to discuss potentially sensitive or even classified information with Grusch that he was not allowed to share publicly at the hearing.
- - - - - - - -

Defense contractors silent on whistleblowers’ UFO claims
https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/defense-contractors-mum-on-whistleblowers-ufo-claims/

EXCERPTS: During the hearing, former officials alleged that defense contractors are doing the work of covering up UFOs — along with the federal government.

[...] “Questions about UAPs are best addressed by the U.S. government,” a Lockheed Martin spokesperson told NewsNation.

Former federal agent Ben Hansen [...he's host of a UFO TV show...] offered an explanation as to how a potential secret this big could be kept secret.

“The units of people working on this could be very small. [...] the way that this operates is that they will pull in people from across the country and different parts to work on it, where they’re not always perhaps housed in the same area,” said Hansen. “So one person will be working on one part of a team and they have no idea of the larger picture. And I have had whistleblowers come to me with little bits of the puzzle.”​

_

 

[Yazata]

I don't know if anyone has posted this earlier in the thread, but it's an absolute treasure-trove of quotations about UFOs/UAPs from various prominent individuals. For whatever that's worth.

https://www.uap.guide/

(Ducking my head to keep it from being blown off by incoming fire.)

 

[Magical Realist]

Thanks for the link Yazata! Good authorative source for UAP information. I would probably get banned by James if I posted it.

"Usually we have multiple sensors picking up these things... There are a lot more sightings than have been made public... Objects that have been seen by Navy or Air Force pilots, or in satellite imagery, that engage in actions that... we don't have the technology for, or traveling at speeds that exceed the sound barrier without a sonic boom... Technologies that we don’t have and, frankly, that we are not capable of defending against."— John Ratcliffe Director National Intelligence
3/22/2021 | Fox News

 

[Yazata]

This distribution of sightings is kind of awkward to explain.

View attachment 5520
(Full disclosure: the provenance of this rendering and the data it's based on is not clear. Could use confirmation.)

In case you're wondering, it does not correspond with worldwide population density.

I don't believe that distribution. It looks like it might be an artifact of only counting English language reports.

Anyone who follows UFO lore knows that many reports originate in Latin America. There's a whole Spanish/Portugese literature on it. Jacques Vallee (the inspiration for French UFO expert Lacombe in Close Encounters) wrote about many French sightings. The French government UFO agency GEIPAN has extensive files of Francophone sightings.

We know that there's long been a great deal of Russian interest and didn't MR write about Ukrainian sightings earlier in the thread? China has a government UFO investigation effort. UFO's are seen in the Middle East (where the famous Tehran UFO incident occurred, to say nothing of Sean Kirkpatrick's metallic sphere seen over Iraq).

 

[exchemist]

Browsing the prominent headlines, appeared all of this was going to die with a whimper. Nothing about further hearings interrogating Grusch's list of witnessess. Congress reported as feeling too embarrassed after the last one ("like an investigation of professional wrestling").

But... NewsNation ... again.

Lawmakers raise possibility of UFO select committee
https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/lawmakers-raise-possibility-of-ufo-select-committee/

EXCERPTS: Rep. Tim Burchett, R-Tenn., has asked for more UFO hearings, and House Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer tells NewsNation there’s a strong possibility Burchett will get them.

[...] “There are other authorities that would require the establishment of a select committee, and we’re going to be chatting with the speaker about those things in the coming days,” said Rep. Matt Gaetz, R-Fla.

If a select committee is formed, that group could have the power to subpoena records, images, videos and even testimony from people under oath.

Congress is [...] hoping to get whistleblower David Grusch into a SCIF, a private, secure room inside the Capitol. Lawmakers want to discuss potentially sensitive or even classified information with Grusch that he was not allowed to share publicly at the hearing.
- - - - - - - -

Defense contractors silent on whistleblowers’ UFO claims
https://www.newsnationnow.com/space/ufo/defense-contractors-mum-on-whistleblowers-ufo-claims/

EXCERPTS: During the hearing, former officials alleged that defense contractors are doing the work of covering up UFOs — along with the federal government.

[...] “Questions about UAPs are best addressed by the U.S. government,” a Lockheed Martin spokesperson told NewsNation.

Former federal agent Ben Hansen [...he's host of a UFO TV show...] offered an explanation as to how a potential secret this big could be kept secret.

“The units of people working on this could be very small. [...] the way that this operates is that they will pull in people from across the country and different parts to work on it, where they’re not always perhaps housed in the same area,” said Hansen. “So one person will be working on one part of a team and they have no idea of the larger picture. And I have had whistleblowers come to me with little bits of the puzzle.”​

_

I must say I think this looks increasingly like a Republican strategy of gaslighting the American public, to further weaken their hold on reality, already made shaky by four years of relentless lies from Trump.

There is just no way, no way, that a secret programme like this could remain so for years and years as claimed. All manner of specialist experts would have to be involved, not to mention all the presidents, defence secretaries etc, who would have to be in on it. And what would be the motive for keeping it secret anyway?

This is a wacko paranoid conspiracy theory. But it will suit Trump if nobody has any idea what to believe, and if they have doubts about some imaginary "deep state" with a supposed agenda of its own that is hiding things from the public. Don't believe the "mainstream media". Trust instead the Personality, the Orange One, die Führer.