We should get out of Afghanistan.

I am reminded of Rousseau
"a society built around self interested individuals will necessarily lack a common morality."

...............................
one wonders
when Obama violated the war powers act, (see below)did he know that that was wrong?
Or
Do we lack a common morality?

"Despite the failure of the President to receive legal authorization from Congress, the Obama administration continued its military campaign,"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_military_intervention_in_Libya
 
sculptor said:
when Obama violated the war powers act, (see below)did he know that that was wrong?
Or
Do we lack a common morality?
Click to expand...
We lack a common morality in Congress, and with regard to the Republican Party generally.

Re-electing both Reagan and W came with a price.
So did the determination by the leadership of the Republicans in Congress - immediately after Obama's becoming the sitting President - to oppose everything he attempted regardless of merit.

That was a coalition of self-interested individuals displaying a lack of common morality.
The result was that nothing the Republican Congress did could have moral significance, or mean anything ethically, or be taken as expressing the will of their constituents. The only weight it had was technical legality,

The entire US involvement in the Middle East at the time was in probable violation of various US laws etc designed to prevent Presidents from doing what W did. But that horse was long gone from the barn. Obama, meanwhile, could spin technical confusion around the status of his actions - given US treaty commitments to the UN and/or NATO, and the fact that the US did not start or launch the war involved, he could pretend to not be making the wrong kind of war.
 
iceaura said:
- - - -

Too bad Obama isn't "we" - he even gets blamed for the budget deficits of his tenure.
Click to expand...
Why are we talking about Obama? Have you seen me blaming him for anything? He took some heat for his Syrian policies, didn't get us out of Afghanistan, etc. I liked Obama.

Why is everything politics with you?
 
iceaura said:
Getting out of Afghanistan is nothing but politics, with me. That's true.
What else would be involved, according to you?
Click to expand...

We've been in Afghanistan though Republican and Democratic administrations. It's foreign policy at a certain point and not just "they", "Republican talking points", people who are either "stupid" or "lying".

Your approach has more in common with Trump than with anything else. Trump has never been wrong, has a name for everyone who disagrees with him, fake news, deep state. I'm sure Trump would like to reverse history and dismiss any change.

You know, like you.
 
iceaura said:
Getting out of Afghanistan is nothing but politics, with me. That's true.
What else would be involved, according to you?
Click to expand...
Do u seriously think it is about politics?
Try maintaining regional instability. Opium supply, both legal and illegal. Maintaining low oil price. Prevent Islamic unity. prevent OPEC trading extortion... etc...
Got little to do with politics IMO. More about pain killers, narcotics, guns and money...
 
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Quantum Quack said:
Do u seriously think it is about politics?
Click to expand...
Yep.
Quantum Quack said:
Got little to do with politics IMO. More about pain killers, narcotics, guns and money...
Click to expand...
Yep. Politics, the lot of it. That's what drugs, guns, and money is all about.
Seattle said:
We've been in Afghanistan though Republican and Democratic administrations.
Click to expand...
Like you said elsewhere: easier to get in than get out, not the equivalent fault of those unable to get out.
I did remind you to remember that, if you recall. It's going to keep coming up.
Seattle said:
It's foreign policy at a certain point and not just "they", "Republican talking points", people who are either "stupid" or "lying".
Click to expand...
It's Republican warmongering and oil grabbing and pipeline routing and regime changing and tax cutting and dictator coddling and arms dealing and governmental corruption, at this point and for 40 years.

We were there, remember? As Americans, we had access to information. Cheney's prewar meetings with oil company execs and the private safe in his office; the shifting of military focus from Afghanistan to Iraq on lies; W's strutting folly; the pallet loads of cash forklifted off cargo planes and vanished without a trace into war zones; the string of black site torture centers from Diego Garcia to Bagram to Iraq to the Baltics to Guantanamo Bay - the most corrupt war in American history, and all of it from one Party: the Republican War.
Seattle said:
Your approach has more in common with Trump than with anything else
Click to expand...
In a world with no physical reality.
The common nature of lies and facts, slander and accurate description, corruption and honest policy, information and fantasy, discussion and propaganda, what anybody says and what anybody else says - it's all the same, in Republican Retcon world. There is no reality.

Until it bites them in the ass. Until the levee breaks. Until the fired army of Saddam reorganizes. Until the photos hit the internet. Until the cash flow to the US's biggest energy company from ripped off Californians runs dry. Until the mortgage holder walks away from the house. Then it's bothsides to blame and who could have known and we need bipartisan cooperation and W wasn't a real Republican anyway. I mean Trump - Trump isn't a real Republican.

Both sides is bullshit. It's also a major Republican talking point, being pushed on all corporate US media. If you want something other than Republican talking points in your posts, post something other than Republican talking points.
 
iceaura said:
That entire matter is political. If politics serves the money, that is a political issue. If money serves the politics that is a political issue.
Click to expand...
nah...it is just money men wanting a front man politician to lie for them. ( knowingly or not)

After all is that not the definition of politics is... Lying.. "May the best liar win"
 
sculptor said:
It seems
Click to expand...

... retro-spective reason...
to speculate after the fact and derive a reasoning that defines the previous cause & effect

it is not my area of reading.
i have seen a few odd documentary's.
the one about male sexuality of homosexual indoctrination of young boys by bi-sexual men self defining as heterosexual was quite amazing.

western concepts of "what they want" and "what drives their culture" may not be as easy to sustain their own relevance.

homosexuality as a cultural practice in Afghanistan is normal
however
tali ban & conservative christian and colonial-christianity is forthright anti homosexuality.

what is the average life span ? 50 years old ?
what age must they start breeding to enable a basic 3 tier system of community survivalism based on no health care technology & infant and adult mortality ?

probably most girls need to have 2 children before they get to 20 years old.

they have hundreds if not thousands of years of history of child marriage(like india & most asian countrys and most european countrys)

sculptor said:
pouring money into Afghanistan,
Click to expand...

you mean seeking to purchase oil & mineral rights while fighting geo-political world wars to maintain market position ?

are you talking about the Afghani people ?
or are you talking about war investor European profit margins ?

or... are you talking about 1st world citizens in far off countrys ?
 
RainbowSingularity said:
honest genuine politicians are public servants and very very nice people.
however the job attracts those who covet power for personal gain.
Click to expand...
The honest and genuine politicians are not politicians.... they are leaders.
The mark of a successful politician is how successful he is at telling lies.
The mark of a successful leader is how successful he is at telling the truth...
Or something to that effect....
 
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