I'm not sure whether fetuses should be classified as human or not, but i don't think that its relevant to this issue. What interests me is whether or not a fetus is concious. Life may begin at conception, but even so that life is not the same as a fully developed human, or even an infant. If a human being suffers an injury that renders them essentially brain dead, but still breathing, then often familys will reach the conclusion that their life is over and pull the plug, not because they are no longer human, but because they are no longer concious. At the point where a fetus becomes concious therefore is the point where it should recieve considerations due to anyone else.
What is a Fetus?
- Thread starter ElectricFetus
- Start date
Greatly agree
One could say the consciousness is are soul; as such feti do not have souls if they have no consciousness. If they have no souls then they do not deserve the same rights as a person or even a high animal. Feti would rank in the same category as plants.
One could say the consciousness is are soul; as such feti do not have souls if they have no consciousness. If they have no souls then they do not deserve the same rights as a person or even a high animal. Feti would rank in the same category as plants.
We aren't talking unfortunetly about a brain-dead person who got involved in an accident. We are talking about a member of our species is growing into a fully developed human. Sure, there are families who would pull the plug on a brain-dead person, but to be fair, hospitals do that too without a family consent.
That having been said, no one knows what instant in which the brain "turns on" in a fetus and it becomes human by the standards that you have set.... for that matter, there isn't really any much of a lightbulb in a newborn either, so as I said, why stop there? Who has the right to really decide what is the right moment in which to say it is a human being now? No one does.
That having been said, no one knows what instant in which the brain "turns on" in a fetus and it becomes human by the standards that you have set.... for that matter, there isn't really any much of a lightbulb in a newborn either, so as I said, why stop there? Who has the right to really decide what is the right moment in which to say it is a human being now? No one does.
to be aware of ones existence... even a baby has that, A fetus has nothing before the development of a higher brain. It is the mothers right to decide if it is a baby or if it is a fetus. It’s her body and she can do what she wants with it.
Exactly.
Before a fetus becomes self-aware it is just a collection of cells, sure it has the potential to eventually become self-aware, just as it did when the sperm and ova that created it where still within its seperate parents. Would you argue that every egg and sperm should be treated with the same respect that a human being is? If not whats the difference between them before and after conception?
from a practical perspective:
in my research I work with mice and since I look at developmental aspects I have to work with fetuses (or however you want to write fetus in plural).
A mouse fetus in any stage of development is a mouse to me. There is no point in which I would say. This is a mouse and this is just some fetus/object. The older the fetus gets the more difficult it becomes to kill it. Not because they are more mouse, but because of superficial things. Such as when they start moving. You are reminded (to a higher degree) that you are dealing with a living animal. It is not that it is more mouse to you than before.
We might therefore have a problem of sentiment. The more a human fetus resembles baby the more difficult it becomes to approve killing it. Hence morals are kicking in. There is no real difference between a baby and a fetus. They are both humans.
Morals might be strongly related to sentiment. That's why it is so easy to breach them under certain situations.
in my research I work with mice and since I look at developmental aspects I have to work with fetuses (or however you want to write fetus in plural).
A mouse fetus in any stage of development is a mouse to me. There is no point in which I would say. This is a mouse and this is just some fetus/object. The older the fetus gets the more difficult it becomes to kill it. Not because they are more mouse, but because of superficial things. Such as when they start moving. You are reminded (to a higher degree) that you are dealing with a living animal. It is not that it is more mouse to you than before.
We might therefore have a problem of sentiment. The more a human fetus resembles baby the more difficult it becomes to approve killing it. Hence morals are kicking in. There is no real difference between a baby and a fetus. They are both humans.
Morals might be strongly related to sentiment. That's why it is so easy to breach them under certain situations.
Spurious Monkey is saying it like I think it is.
If you want to go with what is "self-aware" then you must surely realize the danger such a caste system offers. If what you are saying is true, then there are plenty of people in mental hospitals who don't fit your description. It is possible to become so mentally unstable that you are no longer self-aware. Are insane people human? I bet you are going to argue they are... but by your definition, they are not. Similarly, those who have a lower IQ must be less human because they are LESS self-aware.
Be very careful where you stick the shades of grey philosophy. I don't think this is a topic it should be applied to.
If you want to go with what is "self-aware" then you must surely realize the danger such a caste system offers. If what you are saying is true, then there are plenty of people in mental hospitals who don't fit your description. It is possible to become so mentally unstable that you are no longer self-aware. Are insane people human? I bet you are going to argue they are... but by your definition, they are not. Similarly, those who have a lower IQ must be less human because they are LESS self-aware.
Be very careful where you stick the shades of grey philosophy. I don't think this is a topic it should be applied to.
You know the guy who came up with these chatchy slogans as he called them, admitted they are very cynacle. The rhetoric is rediculously emotional and irrational, not to mention is the belief that any one human being should have the power to decide what is human based on personal decision. If we follow that way of thinking, then genocide, slavery, and racism can also be justified.
How??? Are slaves attached to my body like parasites? Are black people? Are jews?
There is a big difference between a brain dead comatose person and a catatonic schizophrenic! I’m basing my measure on consciousness… you know what that is right? It has no connection to IQ: even a Dog has it! Consciousness is the ability to be aware of ones existence and the environment around. Even a catatonic has this since s/he is still aware of s/he self but has no ability or will power to move (defined from: Psychology in the New Millennium, Six edition by Spencer A. Rathus)