What would you do?

[wellwisher]

The reaction depends. If by-standers were carrying legal guns, this opens the options for more people to help. Even the little old lady with a 38 will be able to control the crime scene, from a safe distance. But if we have no weapons, this narrows who might attempt to help since they need to be trained in close combat, which eliminates the old lady. Removing legal guns makes it easier to murder since people are too afraid to help by close quarter combat.

 

[Rita]

Police departments do discourage people from being the hero for their own safety. But there are many people that just could not watch someone else being murdered and do nothing to prevent it. Sometimes they pay the ultimate price and sometimes they become a real hero. I say pull your cell phone out call 911 and then take a picture then let the killer know and run like hell.

I was thinking that is the way to handle it, but I don't carry a cell phone. For sure police in the US give the same advise as the police in Australia. But I do like the answer of someone with a gun, putting an end to the problem. There are people who can do well with guns. I am not one of them. I am also close to the wild west where individuals had to be able to defend themselves. We have rural areas without good police protection. Hum, you have me thinking- in many rural areas there are volunteer fire fighters and volunteer emergency responders. These folks have regular meetings and training. Perhaps the NRA should organize gun packing people, and perhaps some teachers should belong to the organization?

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

In some EU countries, the official instruction from police authorities for such situations is to not intervene in any way, and call the police.

Indeed. The attacker is usually either certifiably crazy or extremely angry. In both cases he's very likely to have both great strength and reduced sensation of pain. If you intervene you could very well become his first victim, without providing any help to his original victim at all. Sacrificing your life (or a long hospitalization and possibly a lifelong disability) for nothing. If you're not trained in handling such situations, or at least a strong, quick, tough kid with lots of fighting experience, leave it to the professionals.

And I doubt that any of those kids hang out on SciForums.

After coming that close to killing someone, I decided I should not have a gun.

The odds are 3:1 that instead of stopping an intruder or a cougar/panther/mountain lion/whatever you call it where you live, your gun will be: A) Used by you in anger against someone who is in your house with your permission, very commonly your spouse; B) Discharged by you by mistake against someone who you're not expecting, don't recognize, came to the wrong house out of confusion, or came to your house to beg you to call 911; C) Taken from you by a strong, crazy intruder and used to kill somebody else. Every gun in private hands in America makes every one of us a tiny bit less safe. Guns now kill more Americans than road accidents (if we count suicides, and guns make suicide so easy that we should definitely count them) and over the past 30 years they have killed nine times as many of us as terrorists. In fact, you are five times as likely to use your gun to kill yourself as an intruder or dangerous wildlife!

The only reason we don't all know that is that the news media report every single death or injury caused by terrorists, but they only report one out of eight gun deaths and only one out of sixty injuries! The NRA has tremendous influence.

Perhaps the NRA should organize gun packing people, and perhaps some teachers should belong to the organization?

Have you ever talked to the "gun-packing people"? They are utterly irrational. They have no logic, no position to argue, guns are just a religion to them. If you think I'm wrong and they're really as sane as you and me, consider the fact that their current "justification" for having military-style weapons is that some day our own government will turn against us and we'll all be glad they have those weapons to fight off the government.

Really??? Have you seen the weapons the government has? These wackos with their machine guns and body armor will last about eight seconds!

Besides, the next war, whether it's a civil war or a war between countries or a religious war, will be fought in cyberspace. In fact it's already happening! We're really lucky that we owe so much money to China. They would never attack the USA, it would destroy their own economy. Their government hackers are probably working overtime to clandestinely strengthen our pathetic computer security, so the Russians and Iranians don't break into it!

 

[Rita]

Indeed. The attacker is usually either certifiably crazy or extremely angry. In both cases he's very likely to have both great strength and reduced sensation of pain. If you intervene you could very well become his first victim, without providing any help to his original victim at all. Sacrificing your life (or a long hospitalization and possibly a lifelong disability) for nothing. If you're not trained in handling such situations, or at least a strong, quick, tough kid with lots of fighting experience, leave it to the professionals.

And I doubt that any of those kids hang out on SciForums.

The odds are 3:1 that instead of stopping an intruder or a cougar/panther/mountain lion/whatever you call it where you live, your gun will be: A) Used by you in anger against someone who is in your house with your permission, very commonly your spouse; B) Discharged by you by mistake against someone who you're not expecting, don't recognize, came to the wrong house out of confusion, or came to your house to beg you to call 911; C) Taken from you by a strong, crazy intruder and used to kill somebody else. Every gun in private hands in America makes every one of us a tiny bit less safe. Guns now kill more Americans than road accidents (if we count suicides, and guns make suicide so easy that we should definitely count them) and over the past 30 years they have killed nine times as many of us as terrorists. In fact, you are five times as likely to use your gun to kill yourself as an intruder or dangerous wildlife!

The only reason we don't all know that is that the news media report every single death or injury caused by terrorists, but they only report one out of eight gun deaths and only one out of sixty injuries! The NRA has tremendous influence.

Have you ever talked to the "gun-packing people"? They are utterly irrational. They have no logic, no position to argue, guns are just a religion to them. If you think I'm wrong and they're really as sane as you and me, consider the fact that their current "justification" for having military-style weapons is that some day our own government will turn against us and we'll all be glad they have those weapons to fight off the government.

Really??? Have you seen the weapons the government has? These wackos with their machine guns and body armor will last about eight seconds!

Besides, the next war, whether it's a civil war or a war between countries or a religious war, will be fought in cyberspace. In fact it's already happening! We're really lucky that we owe so much money to China. They would never attack the USA, it would destroy their own economy. Their government hackers are probably working overtime to clandestinely strengthen our pathetic computer security, so the Russians and Iranians don't break into it!

I love your argument, especially when you get going on civil war and cyberwar. I roared with laughter about China's panic to strengthen our computer security so the Russians and Iranians don't hack our system. Wouldn't that make a great comedy movie? How about that for a weapon of peace, great comedies that make us laugh at ourselves.

But back on topic. I know plenty of gun owners, and although some people think I hate men, I really love some men. I have known men who are so cool tempered and have such great people skills, I am 100% in favor of them packing guns. There are women with the character traits that would make as good as these men. I am not one of them.

During the second world war, it was our men too old or too young for war, who defended our coast. At the beginning of the war, we helped arm Europe with our family guns. Our coast was defended by family guns and dynamite. That's all these folks had when they watched a Japanese sub in a bay until a bomber could get there.

There are two mountain ranges between our coast and the inland valleys. These old and young men planned to hold mountain passes if the Japanese invaded, with their family guns and dynamite. Each time they had to fall back, the plan was to dynamite the pass. You see our defense forces were over seas, and we didn't have much defense at home. Today the Military Industrial Complex has changed everything, and people insist the Military Industrial Complex is just conspiracy theory, but hopefully our ability to defend ourselves is not as pathetic it was. However, I am not so sure we should be 100% dependent on a government to defend us. Until we return public education to defending democracy in the classroom, I am not so sure the government will never become our enemy. I am one of those nuts who thinks we should have citizens should be armed and organized. However, I am not someone who should have a gun, because of the reasons you listed.