Whats the best way to deal with indoctrinated people?

[lightgigantic]

Am I wrong to engage people in debates?

a key ingredient to successful debating is to know the quality of the person you are dealing with ... any specifics of knowledge is a secondary consideration

Is me wanting to engage in open dialog about issues that most people would rather push under the rug a form of indoctrination in itself?

Liberalism can also be dogmatic

Is there a point in discussing reality with people who are indoctrinated?

I trust you use the word reality in a culturally engineered sense - Its not just that other people are indoctrinated - we all are - and if we fail to examine how we are culturally established, and also fail to determine an over-arching philosophical value system that delegates and relegates all values, we run the risk of coming across as naive, conceited, abnoxious, rude, etc etc (IOW we send out the wrong signals, even if we are well-meaning)

I want true freedom of speech (like you almost get on the Internet),

I want governments to serve their people and not the other way around. I want people to say what they want without fear of death or persecution. I want people to live with the freedoms I have.

These things can only be catalyzed by exemplary behaviour and not liberal politics.
IOW if you can lead others with a serving attitude, if you can avoid displays of petty vehemence when your ego is bruised, if you can display the appropriate level of detachment from superficial demands, etc etc .... then perhaps others might see the value in it too.

In short, the problem with extolling values is this - the higher the values, the higher the opportunity for hypocrisy . That is why you really have to have a clean house before you begin this sort of stuff.

However, I also realize that when discussing things like "basic human rights" vs "cultural rights".. that I may be in a way trying to indoctrinate people into my way of thinking... which kinda gives me some moral confusion.

Whats the best way to deal with these people or these kind of situations? I feel I need to speak to people and help them think differently as I am a stickler for honesty and truth. I feel education is the only weapon against indoctrination.

education is futile unless it has an example

While speaking to these people I dont try break their world view bubbles and (say with the Chinese), tell them that Mao was the sickest thing to happen to China. My recent method of engagement is identify the criteria that Mao is respected, and using those same criteria apply it to Hitler and Stalin and basically point out that if Mao is a "respected leader", then by same criteria.. so are Stalin and Hitler.

Rather than attacking their point of view, I try guide it into perspective.

This won't work - as sci so nicely illustrates ... for every argument there is another one

I dont know if what I am doing is right or wrong, and I dont know the best way to deal with these kinda situations. What do you suggest?

action speaks louder than words

 

[iceaura]

I read up how he screwed up the food supply by trying to increase iron and steel production which led to the food shortage.

And you are comparing that (don't forget the drought) with Stalin and Hitler?

Thats like saying Apartheid was good for South Africa because it brought low crime to white people, produced an electric and nuclear infrastructure and created a massive mining industry.

Not apartheid, a side effect, but white subcolonial rule.

Now imagine the infrastructure after the freeing from colonization and the unification of the entire African continent south of the Congo, with all the benefits of infrastructure etc extended accordingly.