Who was Jesus talking to when he said...

Medicine*Woman said:
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M*W: This is not my speculation. It has been documented by people smarter than me. It's documentation, the scientific peer-reviewed kind, can be found online or in libraries. For now, we'll have to use the online kind where information on this subject is rife.
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Science is only applicable to events that haven't been proven yet that took place in the bible for example (I use the bible as I know more about it then other religious texts). It cannot and never will disprove the existence of the characters in the bible.

I understand that you feel you must have wasted years and years believing something that is not true and that must be frustrating, and this must fuel your passion to discredit what you no longer believe.
 
davewhite04 said:
If you want to validate your point regarding Mithras, then produce the evidence instead of sporadically spouting out random names and so called facts.
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M*W: Here's some references. Please note the endnotes:

http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Mithras

http://eawc.evansville.edu/essays/mithraism.htm

http://www.crystalinks.com/mithraism.html

http://www.answers.com/topic/mithras

http://www.iranvision.com/mithras.html

http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/0690Mithras.php

http://www.carnaval.com/mithras/

Enjoy reading!
 
Medicine*Woman said:
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M*W: Here's some references. Please note the endnotes:

http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Mithras

http://eawc.evansville.edu/essays/mithraism.htm

http://www.crystalinks.com/mithraism.html

http://www.answers.com/topic/mithras

http://www.iranvision.com/mithras.html

http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/0690Mithras.php

http://www.carnaval.com/mithras/

Enjoy reading!
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The only sort of none biased website you provided stated this:

"Although no written records have survived, many inscriptions to Mithras have been discovered and a series of Mithraistic temples in Italy have been excavated, one existing right under the present Church of Saint Clemente, near the Coliseum in Rome."

Which is interesting actually, but also indicates what I suspected... no written records. So basically people have speculated a characters life based on stone work AFTER Christianity was born, LONG after.

So in essence, the Jesus story came first and this stone work was compared to it to try and discredit Christianity in most cases...
 
davewhite04 said:
Science is only applicable to events that haven't been proven yet that took place in the bible for example (I use the bible as I know more about it then other religious texts). It cannot and never will disprove the existence of the characters in the bible.

I understand that you feel you must have wasted years and years believing something that is not true and that must be frustrating, and this must fuel your passion to discredit what you no longer believe.
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M*W: Yes, I was furious that I had been lied to, but I remember all the questioning I did and got no answers until I set out on my own to find out. Not only did I find out that others had been lied to as well, and to all of us to a varying degree. It's like a lightbulb flashed on in my head, and all the questions I had ask were finally being answered. Sometimes it takes someone who is strong in their belief system to actually question it. It takes guts and the letting go of the fear and guilt of using the brain I was born with. I decided to use it, and consequently, I found out the truth.

You won't find out the truth until you stop letting the status quo rule your life. Reach out beyond your comfort zone. You will find out that you are not as alone as you may have thought.
 
davewhite04 said:
the only sort of none biased website you provided stated this:

"although no written records have survived, many inscriptions to mithras have been discovered and a series of mithraistic temples in italy have been excavated, one existing right under the present church of saint clemente, near the coliseum in rome."

which is interesting actually, but also indicates what i suspected... No written records. So basically people have speculated a characters life based on stone work after christianity was born, long after.

So in essence, the jesus story came first and this stone work was compared to it to try and discredit christianity in most cases...
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m*w: Is there anybody out there who can tell this guy something that i am missing, so that he will see this is not just me making shit up?????
 
davewhite04 said:
Science is only applicable to events that haven't been proven yet that took place in the bible for example (I use the bible as I know more about it then other religious texts). It cannot and never will disprove the existence of the characters in the bible.

I understand that you feel you must have wasted years and years believing something that is not true and that must be frustrating, and this must fuel your passion to discredit what you no longer believe.
Click to expand...
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M*W: Dave, you are afraid to look elsewhere. You believe something that is for the most part myth. You admit you haven't looked elsewhere, so you are no authority on the stuff we are discussing (and that's so one-sided that it's impossible). You don't have a clue! You are still lost in ancient lies, and if that's where you're comfortable, then stay there and wallow in the lies. I don't really care what you believe. I only care about what I believe, and I'm not afraid to search beyond the lies I've been told. (And we've all been told lies about christianity and other religions).
 
Medicine*Woman said:
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m*w: Is there anybody out there who can tell this guy something that i am missing, so that he will see this is not just me making shit up?????
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why is it that important?
you are only responsible for shareing what you know to be true..it is not your job to convert anyone..
 
NMSquirrel said:
why is it that important?
you are only responsible for shareing what you know to be true..it is not your job to convert anyone..
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M*W: Well, I thought that's what I was doing, sharing what I know to be true. It's just frustrating when someone obviously doesn't want to read the information that is out there, and it didn't originate from me. I think I'm just the first person who has ever pointed certain things out, so he thinks I made it up.

As an atheist, I am not trying to convert anyone to anything. I only want them to read and be aware that what they are believing is just a myth. They can keep right on being a christian if they want. That part is not up to me. That is up to them. I just hate to see people who refuse to accept what has been proven, but I know christians are probably the most stubborn, because they have been brainwashed for so long.

I shouldn't take it so personally, and I don't for the most part. It's just when I spend a lot of time and effort discussing these things with someone, and they just refuse to do any extra-biblical reading because they're afraid they might find out that their god is a myth. It's hopeless.
 
Medicine*Woman said:
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M*W: Dave, you are afraid to look elsewhere. You believe something that is for the most part myth. You admit you haven't looked elsewhere, so you are no authority on the stuff we are discussing (and that's so one-sided that it's impossible). You don't have a clue! You are still lost in ancient lies, and if that's where you're comfortable, then stay there and wallow in the lies. I don't really care what you believe. I only care about what I believe, and I'm not afraid to search beyond the lies I've been told. (And we've all been told lies about christianity and other religions).
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I am certain that you have either not read what I've written or have not understood it, one of the two.

"you are afraid to look elsewhere"

Very presumptuous and totally wrong.

"You admit you haven't looked elsewhere, so you are no authority on the stuff we are discussing (and that's so one-sided that it's impossible). You don't have a clue! "

Another statement straight out of the hogwash factory.

READ what I say if you want to respond in a debatable fashion.
 
davewhite04 said:
If you're incapable of supporting your position, you should give up now.
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M*W: What's the point, when I've given you peer-reviewed scientific references by scholars who have done the background research for the things I talk about on this forum. You choose not to go there to read the data, so it's like beating my head against a brick wall. Any discussions with you are all one-sided, so you are stuck where you are in your archaic belief system, and apparently you're not going to read anything but what's in your immediate belief system, and sadly, that is where you'll stay.
 
Medicine*Woman said:
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M*W: What's the point, when I've given you peer-reviewed scientific references by scholars who have done the background research for the things I talk about on this forum.
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If you're talking about them links you provided I already refuted the point you made using one those links, do you know which link?

You choose not to go there to read the data, so it's like beating my head against a brick wall.
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I did indeed read them, obviously you didn't.

Any discussions with you are all one-sided,
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Probably because I'm in a stronger position.

so you are stuck where you are in your archaic belief system, and apparently you're not going to read anything but what's in your immediate belief system, and sadly, that is where you'll stay.
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What belief system exactly?
 
davewhite04 said:
If you're talking about them links you provided I already refuted the point you made using one those links, do you know which link?
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M*W: The links I provided you contained scholarly peer-reviewed scientific publications, if you read the endnotes.

Probably because I'm in a stronger position.
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M*W: You're not in the stronger position when you can't discuss peer-reviewed scientific publications. Also, you have not provided any scholarly refutations.

What belief system exactly?
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M*W: I'm assuming you are a christian, and therefore, are coming from that standpoint.
 
Medicine*Woman said:
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M*W: Well, I thought that's what I was doing, sharing what I know to be true.
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It's just frustrating
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emotional response,usually associated with someone who appears not to be listening..(the excuse of wife beaters everywhere)..

when someone obviously doesn't want to read the information that is out there,
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A) it wouldn't be much fun if everyone posted "I agree with you" all the time..besides that,what if everyone agreed with you? 1; it would kinda take all the wind out of your sails..(and make all your work pointless) 2 ; it would kill forum bases communications..

B) ahh..there is the issue..both with christians and non-christians alike..we all use the excuse :
i dont have time to do all the research to find out whether X is tru or not,maybe i can trust in that guy that did all the research for me so i can just ask his opinion and do like he does:
Reality check of this is 'someone else make the decision for me, if it goes wrong i'll blame you'

IOW i didn't even read all of it..it was like TOO much information to read..
i believe you when you post the referances but also i know (im too busy to do all of this..cough..cough..) that if i wanted to, i could post just as many referances that would cancel out any data you would have,
so im left with what do I think it is..

so i post..once written,it is there..i dont intend for others to believe like i do..even if it just makes them think about it a little bit i'm happy, and if god wants them to learn it, he will put others in the position to teach him,better than i.

and it didn't originate from me.
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LOL..funny timing..we were talking about the Originality of jesus (yes from the book i linked elsewhere).. in bible study this morning.. it says he wasn't oringinal..everything he taught was borrowed from elswhere..so nothing he taught originated from him..

LOL..doesn't that kinda make you christ like?:eek:

I think I'm just the first person who has ever pointed certain things out,
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Really? think or feel?

so he thinks I made it up.
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think,feel,know,or believe?


As an atheist, I am not trying to convert anyone to anything. I only want them to read and be aware that what they are believing is just a myth. I just hate to see people who refuse to accept what has been proven,
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like some want you to be aware that there is more to life than any one man can comprehend,it takes faith and trust to believe another..
i would rather put my faith in god than in man..
man has been proven to let me down..god hasn't..

but I know (insert any name here) are probably the most stubborn, because they have been brainwashed for so long.
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so this is how you were taught? sounds like a script. something you learned from..there are more ways than one to teach.

just cause it worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone..(see No kids left behind policy)

I shouldn't take it so personally, and I don't for the most part. It's just when I spend a lot of time and effort discussing these things with someone, and they just refuse to do any extra-biblical reading .
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hmmm..
sounds like something a pastor would feel..
 
NMSquirrel said:
emotional response,usually associated with someone who appears not to be listening..(the excuse of wife beaters everywhere)..

A) it wouldn't be much fun if everyone posted "I agree with you" all the time..besides that,what if everyone agreed with you? 1; it would kinda take all the wind out of your sails..(and make all your work pointless) 2 ; it would kill forum bases communications..

B) ahh..there is the issue..both with christians and non-christians alike..we all use the excuse :
i dont have time to do all the research to find out whether X is tru or not,maybe i can trust in that guy that did all the research for me so i can just ask his opinion and do like he does:
Reality check of this is 'someone else make the decision for me, if it goes wrong i'll blame you'

IOW i didn't even read all of it..it was like TOO much information to read..
i believe you when you post the referances but also i know (im too busy to do all of this..cough..cough..) that if i wanted to, i could post just as many referances that would cancel out any data you would have,
so im left with what do I think it is..

so i post..once written,it is there..i dont intend for others to believe like i do..even if it just makes them think about it a little bit i'm happy, and if god wants them to learn it, he will put others in the position to teach him,better than i.

LOL..funny timing..we were talking about the Originality of jesus (yes from the book i linked elsewhere).. in bible study this morning.. it says he wasn't oringinal..everything he taught was borrowed from elswhere..so nothing he taught originated from him..

LOL..doesn't that kinda make you christ like?:eek:

Really? think or feel?

think,feel,know,or believe?

like some want you to be aware that there is more to life than any one man can comprehend,it takes faith and trust to believe another..
i would rather put my faith in god than in man..
man has been proven to let me down..god hasn't..

so this is how you were taught? sounds like a script. something you learned from..there are more ways than one to teach.

just cause it worked for you doesn't mean it will work for everyone..(see No kids left behind policy)

hmmm..
sounds like something a pastor would feel..
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M*W: Yes, you're right. It's a lost cause. I did what I could, but I was talking to a brick wall. I feel sorry for his wife.
 
Medicine*Woman said:
M*W: The links I provided you contained scholarly peer-reviewed scientific publications, if you read the endnotes.
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That was an answer to:

"If you're talking about them links you provided I already refuted the point you made using one those links, do you know which link?"

Seriously, are you on crack?

The rest of your post is bollocks as its based on a false premise.

I won't discuss anything else with you until you actually read my posts, before you respond.
 
davewhite04 said:
That was an answer to:

"If you're talking about them links you provided I already refuted the point you made using one those links, do you know which link?"

Seriously, are you on crack?

The rest of your post is bollocks as its based on a false premise.

I won't discuss anything else with you until you actually read my posts, before you respond.
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M*W: You did not refute the point. You are blinded by 'the opiate of the masses'. It's time we agree to disagree.
 
davewhite04 said:
I refuted your point with a link you provided, how dumb is that?

Here, I did the donkey work, one of the links you provided:

http://eawc.evansville.edu/essays/mithraism.htm

Once again.

Goodbye.
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Now i am not even sure if there ever was a character named Mithras. As far as i can tell everything comes from a few drawings and the details were added hundreds and thousands of years later but only as speculation from some images that supposedly are of "Mithras". But i dont know how THAT is even known.
 
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