In both jokes the atheist has the capacity to see to his own benefit ... and in both cases he fails due to being fixed in his beliefs
Why do people believe in God?
- Thread starter aaqucnaona
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The fact that the two belivers got of the hook despite the evident malfuction in the machine does not bother you in the slighest?
"Skeptic"-Hey i think i know why the two guys before me weren't killed.
"Executioner"-Really? Explain this to me good sir
" Skeptic"-While i was down here i saw that a gear was out of place, and it had been blocking the path of the blade froming coming down.
"Executioner"-Well...would you look at that! Guess i should have paid more attetion before the executions
"Skeptic"-So...are you going to execute the first two guys or are they off the hook?
"Executioner"-HOW DARE YOU! THOSE TWO MEN CALLED UPON THEIR GODS IN THEIR HOURS OF NEED AND WERE SAVED FROM DEATH BY THE DIVINE WILL. YOU SICKIN ME, PERSECUTING AGAINST SUCH NOBLE SPIRITUAL MEN!
"Skeptic"-:facepalm: With that i embrace the sweet release of death.
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What benefits? Mauled by bear or put to death? If god wanted atheist to believe then why he wouldn’t just use his powers to convince them of his existence?
The second joke had rational skeptic not an atheist as the third protagonist unless that is what you think of the definition of atheism to be?
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How many skeptics does it take to change a lightbulb?
Actually, they won't do it--they have no sense of urgency about the situation--they aren't sure they're really in the dark.
That's straight from Paranoia 101.
You call this a "theist world"?
Well, if you consider worship of money to be "theism," then you might have a point. Otherwise - not.
World Population Percentages by Religious Group
religious 86%, non-religious and anti-religious 14%.
Religious Groups
monotheists 54%, reincarnationists 20%, ethno religions 10%
Monotheists
Christians 33%, Muslims 21%
Reincarnationists
Hindu 13%, Buddhist 6%
Ethno Religions Chinese 6.3%, tribal 4%
Non-religious groups
Non-religious and agnostic 11.9%, anti-religious and atheist 2.3% It may be a singular god world...however it is still the majority beliving in god(s) in comparision to those who do not.
Visit the sights from post #96 and you will see why i'm paranoid.
the benefit of living of course
well in the joke he did just appear before the atheist ... who was still reluctant to completely back down from their world view ... hence the dogmatic belief thing
Its a term they commonly identify themselves as ..... "free thinker" is another
hence : Anyway regardless of which ever way you want to twist the jokes mentioned, its more about the nature of dogmatism of a certain type of atheist that drives the humor.
:shrug:
I am new to this site. I have been trying to find people who like me wants to talk about all those ISMS . I can't believe that people believe that all the groups of humans on this planet came from 2 people, who had only 2 sons one who was suppose to have been slain, To be the bible is a narrative composed by someone to control a tribe of people. When you talk to people who believe that dogma, they say you or the Antichrist, Satan and a host of other things, When you ask them about things concerning the bible , they say if God wanted us to know that he would have put it in the bible. To me the big bang and creationist or one in the same, they both or hypotheses, When we die the earth will remain, We will become part of this planet just as all the other species who had came before us.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
Actually, of all the things the monotheistic Abrahamists (Jews, Christians, Muslims, Rastafarians: "Children of the Book") believe, that is perhaps the least ridiculous. It is, after all, theoretically possible for one male and one female of a species to propagate an entire population. All that's required is a phenomenal run of good luck, but that is merely unlikely, not impossible.
Yes, the people who wrote the Mesopotamian Creation Myth (it's attributed to the Babylonians because they were the first ones to write it down, but it could have been passed down orally from some forgotten tribe back in the Stone Age) didn't even try to make it seem plausible. It would have worked out much better if Adam and Eve had daughters. Human males produce sperm until they die, so Adam could have impregnated all his daughters until they reached menopause, creating an impressively large third generation. Instead, their one surviving son had to impregnate his mother before she reached menopause.
None of this, of course, produces the kind of genetic variation we associate with a healthy population. So the "phenomenal run of good luck" I cited includes no bad genes. Once again, very very unlikely, but not impossible.
It's been suggested that religions were institutionalized by the first large-scale multi-level governments of the Bronze Age. If you tell a fellow that the antisocial act he is about to commit is merely illegal, so that if A. someone catches him doing it and B. he doesn't have an influential friend or relative who can get his sentence dismissed or softened, he will be punished... a rational fellow will think long and hard and might decide the reward is worth the risk.
But if you tell this same nefarious fellow that God is watching him, that God does not miss anything, that God does not forgive (he had not yet taken that anger management class and sent down The First Hippie to preach about peace and brotherhood), and the punishment will be eternity in a very hot place rather than incarceration with a bunch of guys who will exchange their tricks of the trade with him... a rational fellow would be more likely to obey the law.
Sounds like you live in the part of America where the Religious Redneck Retard Revival is still in full swing. In the more cosmopolitan cities many of the Christians take their cue from the Pope, the Archbishop of Canterbury, and the leaders of most of the respectable Christian sects. They admit that much of what's in the Bible is metaphor, but that doesn't dilute its value.
The problem with the Religious Redneck Retards is that their model of the universe only has truth and lies, no metaphors. If you ask them about the statement, "The moon is a golden chariot traveling across the night sky," they will say, "That is a lie." So lots of luck trying to explain the metaphors that comprise the Bible.
:facepalm:
So any atheist is dogmatic if they are open about themselves? How was that individual in the story being dogmatic at all? Did he say their was no god,... no, did he say anything negative against theist...no, at what point during that entire story did he display traits or mannersims that could classify him as an atheist? Could you fucking underline,label and quote those parts for me?
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No
not quite what I said
Anyway regardless of which ever way you want to twist the jokes mentioned, its more about the nature of dogmatism of a certain type of atheist that drives the humor
Did he point out to the executioner how that it wasn't a miracle and how he could go about his business (which inevitably involved killing him)?
OK
During the Reign of Terror of the French Revolution, one morning’s executions began with three men: a rabbi, a Catholicpriest, and a rationalist skeptic.
By operating out of a substandard or mistaken understanding of a phenomenon, one can end up getting upset unnecessarily.
Tout comprendre c’est tout pardonner.
Humans are the only species on earth that have a religious instinct. This behavior has persisted for thousands of years since it provides a basis for natural selection for the human animal. According to evolution, natural selection has a connection to breeding rates, with religions being very high. This has always been valid behavior for the religious. It still aligns with rational science that would appear thousands of years later which gives this breeding rate a selective advantage. How did they know how to align correctly thousands of years before science could prove it?
One important reason the religious instinct gives selected advantage is it exercises the imagination. For example, the gods of mythology require one leave their sensory systems and use the imagination. The imagination is the basis for all innovation. Innovation, as a seed idea, requires belief in a seed, that cannot yet be proven, nor can one see it with the eyes or allow others to see it with their eyes. This separates humans from the animals who can only see with the eyes.
Religion was necessary to get humans past the pre-human semi-animal stage where imagination was taboo and even fearful. The pre-humans preferred to remain within sensory reality. Although this would maximize survival, in the short term, that would make it hard to overcome the inertia of instinct, so humans could start all unseen wild cards of civilization.
Picture the pre-humans with little imagination lacking the faith to pursue raw ideas in within their budding imagination, since it cannot yet be proven. We would still be in the stone age. The cavemen would freak out and destroy raw invention if anyone suggested anything they could not see. There was no proof a pyramid could be built. Humans needed to evolve faith, first.
Once religion was added, there was now a higher cause/power that supported the unproven images within the imagination. Now it was the gods who gave the inspiration for innovation, like the pyramids. The cavemen now had to use willpower, resisting their primitive feat of novelty and let the innovation unfold. This made it possible for the unproven and the unseen to be brought to light.
If you look at the farming, which was important to the formation of civilization, one would need strong faith in an unproven outcome that has no guarantee of success. There are more things that can go wrong, especially when the entire innovation requires a wide range of unseen innovations such as tools, irrigation and storage. At the same time, one is competing with the established nomad tradition which were around for thousands of years. Without religion they would undermine the effort so nothing will change.
Yet humans would need this unknown and this unproven or else civilization could not form. This was made easier when a higher power, in the imagination, chose and motivated farming, given it a better chance for success.
In modern times, innovation has created sufficient logistics where they may less need for the unknown and unproven. But the human imagination is still one of the last frontiers of science.
One important reason the religious instinct gives selected advantage is it exercises the imagination. For example, the gods of mythology require one leave their sensory systems and use the imagination. The imagination is the basis for all innovation. Innovation, as a seed idea, requires belief in a seed, that cannot yet be proven, nor can one see it with the eyes or allow others to see it with their eyes. This separates humans from the animals who can only see with the eyes.
Religion was necessary to get humans past the pre-human semi-animal stage where imagination was taboo and even fearful. The pre-humans preferred to remain within sensory reality. Although this would maximize survival, in the short term, that would make it hard to overcome the inertia of instinct, so humans could start all unseen wild cards of civilization.
Picture the pre-humans with little imagination lacking the faith to pursue raw ideas in within their budding imagination, since it cannot yet be proven. We would still be in the stone age. The cavemen would freak out and destroy raw invention if anyone suggested anything they could not see. There was no proof a pyramid could be built. Humans needed to evolve faith, first.
Once religion was added, there was now a higher cause/power that supported the unproven images within the imagination. Now it was the gods who gave the inspiration for innovation, like the pyramids. The cavemen now had to use willpower, resisting their primitive feat of novelty and let the innovation unfold. This made it possible for the unproven and the unseen to be brought to light.
If you look at the farming, which was important to the formation of civilization, one would need strong faith in an unproven outcome that has no guarantee of success. There are more things that can go wrong, especially when the entire innovation requires a wide range of unseen innovations such as tools, irrigation and storage. At the same time, one is competing with the established nomad tradition which were around for thousands of years. Without religion they would undermine the effort so nothing will change.
Yet humans would need this unknown and this unproven or else civilization could not form. This was made easier when a higher power, in the imagination, chose and motivated farming, given it a better chance for success.
In modern times, innovation has created sufficient logistics where they may less need for the unknown and unproven. But the human imagination is still one of the last frontiers of science.
Tis better to die with truth and integrity than live with the knowledge of a lie.
So any rational skeptic is automatically dubbed an atheist?
It's very hard to tolerate or even forgive those types of people. Especially if you’re at the focal point of their hatred and intolerance.
Tout comprendre c’est tout pardonner= http://www.butterfliesandwheels.org/2003/tout-comprendre-cest-tout-pardonner/
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Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
The invention of the technology of language was also a major factor in our transcendence of nature. Non-verbal species certainly can and do communicate, but the bandwidth of language is many orders of magnitude greater than theirs. Discussing an idea with another member of the tribe who may not entirely agree with you is a tremendous aid to progress.
Your taxonomy is a little off. The first cities were built from stone and wood, using only stone and wooden tools and the musclepower of domesticated animals. (And the poor Olmecs didn't even have that since their largest domesticated animal was the turkey.) The Bronze Age didn't arrive until around 3000BCE.
Also, you don't give sufficient credit to coincidence. Occasionally a pile of rocks falls over and by chance is arranged into a vaguely pyramid-like structure. This is more than enough to encourage a band of curious Great Apes into duplicating the process.
Where is this "primitive fear of novelty" attested to? The other Great Apes are noted for their curiosity and creativity. And their forebrain doesn't outweigh their combined midbrain and hindbrain like ours does. It's much easier for us to override instinctive behavior with reasoned and learned behavior than it is for them.
Again you discount coincidence. By the end of the Paleolithic Era humans were building such huge trash middens that a few wolves were tempted to overcome their own instincts in order to A) become scavengers instead of hunters and B) create a multi-species pack in which members of the other species would be acknowledged as the leaders. These middens were full of seeds. Surely after a good rain the humans would have noticed seedlings popping up in that rich pile of fertilizer. It's been suggested that the key to inventing the technology of farming was not the discovery that plants grow from seeds, but rather the invention of irrigation canals, which is a considerably less brilliant bit of cognition.
Pre-human species had been inventing flint tools for millions of years. Even the Paleolithic hunter-gatherers had developed primitive food preservation technologies such as drying and smoking. They had already invented storage containers, even waterproof ones like otterskin, so storing a modest quantity of food for a journey was no great accomplishment. Once the Neolithic Revolution occurred and people settled into permanent villages the building of larger storage facilities wasn't much of a stretch. The real advance was the invention of pottery, which provided storage that was more secure, more protected from the weather, and more portable.
Millions of years, going back at least to Ardipithecus. Nonetheless this transition was not abrupt. Human tribes established headquarters to which they returned frequently during their treks, and it's reasonable to wonder whether some of the older and less mobile members of the tribe were simply stationed there to preserve the meat, make some clothes and shoes, and keep the scavengers out.
It's not at all clear that belief in the supernatural was necessary for humans to invent the technology of farming. The other technology which, in concert with farming, forms the Paradigm Shift of agriculture is animal husbandry. It's virtually certain the wolves domesticated themselves (just as cats did several thousand years later) and were welcomed for their janitorial services as well as protection and help with the hunting. The earliest livestock probably did the same, since goats and pigs are scavengers like dogs and would certainly have been tempted to eat our ever-growing piles of garbage. Once a few baby animals were fully domesticated by the children as playmates, the herding and corraling of them as adults would have been neither a leap of logic nor particularly difficult.