Why does the government hide UFO's?

Xelasnave.1947 said:
I think it probably was a hot air balloon being attacked by coloured parrots.

The event has not been explained so like others I am free to make something up.

The eye witnesses were out on the town and needed a story for their wives to explain them getting home late.
The malfunction on the plane simply an excuse for overtime and not actually doing any work.


Why is it that the most extreme made up explanations will be hastely set aside by those who insist their make believe is the only make believe that is valid.

Let's take a vote..who thinks a hot air balloon being attacked by parrots is as reasonable as aliens if not more reasonable.

Oh that's right no one said aliens ( except one person in the video) and there should be no implication of aliens even though MR hints at that being the best explanation.

Tiresome.

Predictable.

Any questioning and MR pounces on his stereotype sceptic who refuses to accept the proposition without question.

Typical for a person who thinks brown paper bags are squirrels.

MR you are intelligent I suspect and I think this is a game you like to play to satisfy some desire to argue the inarguable.

I forgot it was a game and made the mistake of giving you and the event serious consideration.

But you just wanted the opportunity to cry sceptic.

Silly me..predictable you.

What's your game?

Attention seeking perhaps, I don't know the answer to that... anymore than I can answer why so many humans are clearly delusional and many more possibly liars.


This video may all be fiction.

I have yet to find anything taking it from fairy tale to a news item.

Now there's a belly full, chew it well and let it digest.

My feeding duties are complete.

Alex
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Awww...I didn't mean to set you off with this compelling evidence. Calm down now and just repeat to yourself "It's all fake...It's all fake." lol!
 
Magical Realist said:
I don't deal in belief.
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Sure you do. Everyone does. Science is nothing but belief. (An elementary error that people make on discussion boards like this is to assume that 'belief' means 'bullshit'.)

A 'factual belief' (a belief about a matter of fact) is a psychological state, with a proposition as its content and reality as its object, in which the truth of the proposition regarding the reality is asserted. My belief that a large body of lead is massive has the proposition 'a large body of lead is massive' as its content, it's about physical reality, and it's only going to be true if a large body of lead really is massive.

I present solid evidence of a phenomenon that's been occurring around the world for over 70 years now.
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More than 70 years.

People have been exclaiming about extraordinary events in the sky since ancient times. I expect that stone-age people did as well. What's changed are the interpretations. The ancient Mesopotamians thought that they were observing the movements of the gods 'in the heavens' (a phrase that they used quite literally, they thought that they could look up and see the realm of the gods), and hence that turbulence in heaven might foretell turbulence on the ground. (Astrology evolved out of that.) The ancient Romans reported seeing glowing shields in the sky. The medieval Christians reported flying ships or heavenly appearances of the Blessed Virgin or things like that. In the 1800's people saw mysterious airships chugging through the sky, apparently powered by steam engines. (That was science-fictionish high-tech to the Victorians.) And after World War II and the sudden appearance of jet planes, nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles, people started seeing what they said were alien spaceships in the skies.

My point is that 20th century ufos are just the latest manifestation of something that's been happening throughout human history.

I don't presume to believe anything more about it than that it is real
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I agree that it's real, but we would probably disagree in how we interpret 'real'. I think that ufos and the other heavenly manifestations are real in much the same way that religious beliefs are real. They are real cultural manifestations and real items of belief. But I'm much more skeptical about whether alien spaceships, the Blessed Virgin or the Babylonian god Marduk literally exist. What is real is the fact that people have believed in all of these things and associated them with things seen in the sky.

In other words, while I think that ufos are a real phenomenon, I'm inclined to see them as a cultural, historical, mythological and psychological phenomenon. Not necessarily a physical or interdimensional phenomenon. Having said that, I am happily willing to speculate that there may be one or more as yet unknown physical (or other) phenomena that are generating some of this.

and driven by some sort of transhuman intelligence
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That looks like speculation to me and I don't share it. It sounds like a remnant of religious belief, the heavenly gods making their appearance once again. But I can't conclusively rule it out either, so I'll leave it as an open possibility, albeit one that I would currently assign a low probability.

What I will not tolerate is the abuse of the noble name of science to defend your own faithheld worldview that ufos are not real or are somehow unexplainable. I will also not accept the glib dismissal of all this empirical evidence for ufos as nothing worth being concerned about.
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Here on Sciforums, the word "science" seems to be used in a peculiar way, to refer to any and all examples of sound reasoning and empirical justification. So 'science' becomes conflated with 'reason' generally, with logic, epistemology and even with common-sense. Unfortunately some of our fellows have never studied logic or epistemology and are prone to ignorance and naivete regarding them. Even worse, they sometimes take an aggressively hostile attitude of willful-ignorance towards them.

What I don't like ("will not tolerate" is probably too strong, since there's nothing I can do about it) is the way that people believe that even bad arguments for what they are convinced is a true conclusion somehow become good arguments. You do that with some of the things you say, because you seemingly want the conclusion to be true. And your opponents are equally prone to doing it.
 
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More than 70 years.

People have been exclaiming about extraordinary events in the sky since ancient times. I expect that stone-age people did as well. What's changed are the interpretations. The ancient Mesopotamians thought that they were observing the movements of the gods 'in the heavens' (a phrase that they used quite literally, they thought that they could look up and see the realm of the gods), and hence that turbulence in heaven might foretell turbulence on the ground. (Astrology evolved out of that.) The ancient Romans reported seeing glowing shields in the sky. The medieval Christians reported flying ships or heavenly appearances of the Blessed Virgin or things like that. In the 1800's people saw mysterious airships chugging through the sky, apparently powered by steam engines. (That was science-fictionish high-tech to the Victorians.) And after World War II and the sudden appearance of jet planes, nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles, people started seeing what they said were alien spaceships in the skies.

My point is that 20th century ufos are just the latest manifestation of something that's been happening throughout human history.
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Yes indeed. Here's a good rundown of some of the most notable ufo sightings in all of history. To deny this is a real phenomenon at this point in time is really just intellectually dishonest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reported_UFO_sightings
 
Magical Realist said:
Calm down now
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Well you did stir things up when you resorted to using the dictionary.

You must admit that was un necessarily provocative.

In law the test for accepting evidence for a civil matter is " what a reasonable man would accept" and in criminal matters " beyond a reasonable doubt".
Both rather vague on the face of it but I like the introduction of the concept of reasonable.
And let's also consider unreasonable as a further tool.
It would seem all folk wish for is to be offered reasonable evidence and that you do not be unreasonable when they ask you to support your belief.
I would also say if you would have us accept the vision was a craft and that craft was out of this world the onus be upon you to offer evidence or proof that puts the conclusion you would have us draw beyond a reasonable doubt.

But I suspect your motive must be to generate site traffic on the one hand if for no other reason for personal attention or on the other to remind the membership there are folk like you out there.

And of course my claims are unsupported pop into the head stuff but such an approach fits the mood here nicely.

I am into astronomy and astro photography and have spent many hours under the stars, all night, night after night. There are also observers of the Sun providing day time observation and camera exposures.

There are many folk like me.

We join astronomy forums. I belong to a forum with 15,000 + members ...dedicated observers of the night sky...and yet in over 10 years on that forum we have not had one report of a UFO.

That does not mean much but its is curious that these folk spend so much time looking up, many running camera gear set up to do hours of exposure, have not picked up even one craft that you would have us believe are somewhat common place.

Anyways this thread has the numbers so that's great for the site and you, me and others get to rattle our keyboards, in my case tap my touch screen.

But know this you have made no case other than there are folk like you out there.

All good.

Alex
 
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In other words, while I think that ufos are a real phenomenon, I'm inclined to see them as a cultural, historical, mythological and psychological phenomenon.
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Cultural/psychological phenomena don't fly alongside of airplane and jet pilots, register on multiple radars, manifest to multiple eyewitnesses, leave soil impressions and burnt vegetation where they land, damage trees, get photographed and videotaped, power down flight panels and automobiles, and radiate eyewitnesses' bodies causing burns, paralysis, and something like microwave sickness .

http://www.ufoevidence.org/newsite/files/WeinsteinPilotCatalog.pdf

http://www.angelfire.com/mo/cptr/topcases.html

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc491.htm

http://www.nicap.org/papers/ufointerf.htm
 
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Xelasnave.1947 said:
Well you did stir things up when you resorted to using the dictionary.
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I find that when people resort to the dictionary to find meanings of words that let them win their arguments, it is not worth your time to read their material any further.
But I suspect your motive must be to generate site traffic on the one hand if for no other reason for personal attention . . .
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Ding ding! You've hit the nail on the head. Attention seekers often do things like this.
 
billvon said:
it is not worth your time to read their material any further.
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If I was fully mobile I would not waste any time at all on this subject or in the religious section.

But as I get to lay on my back a bit with no one around dealing with nonsence is almost not a waste of time.

In fact if I really thought for one second MR believed any of the nonsence he presents I would avoid him...but I think he must be a playful intelligent chap and I regard myself similar...he clearly enjoys getting folks barking at shadows... I have done similar .... It is a sin but one must sin if one is to seek forgiveness.

Alex
 
I find that when people resort to the dictionary to find meanings of words that let them win their arguments, it is not worth your time to read their material any further.
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More likely at the point someone confirms they are using a term in line with it's universally accepted definition you simply have nothing more to say and so lose the argument.

Ding ding! You've hit the nail on the head. Attention seekers often do things like this.
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LOL! He barks as he gives me more attention..I'm such a devious manipulator.:rolleyes:
 
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Xelasnave.1947 said:
But I suspect your motive must be to generate site traffic on the one hand if for no other reason for personal attention or on the other to remind the membership there are folk like you out there.
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I see it more as an episode by all quacks and cranks that through there own in depth lack of reasoning ability and gullibility, that they become fanatical in upholding there mythical beliefs, despite the mountainous build up of evidence invalidating their stance.
And in actual fact, the longer these mythical claims persist, the more and more likely that they will in time be revealed for the nonsensical myths that they truly are. eg: The Faked Moon Landings nonsense: We hear little of these fools now and in time, particularly when we go back to the Moon, their myth and their time wasted in projecting that myth, will fade into oblivion.
The same is now happening with this UFO/Alien nonsense. While most probably agree "we are not alone" the numbers believing that they have come to Earth to conduct their medical experiments is falling off dramatically, as people become more aware.
They gullible are more to be pitied then anything else, and the tripe they post on forums such as this, will amount to zero.
 
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