Why George Floyd matters?

[billvon]

That's true and no one has argued that it's OK to kill black people or to rape women, so why bring that up?

Because you posted "but people should really learn to not argue with police or resist them." I disagree at a general level that one should change one's behavior to placate a criminal. If people are having to do that, the problem is not that more people aren't trying to placate criminals, the problem is the criminals.

I have known 20-30 police in my life. Most were friends or was someone I was working with constructively. A few times the interactions have been unpleasant. I've never had any need to argue with police. But if that day comes up, I expect them to behave professionally and do their jobs.

 

[parmalee]

Because you posted "but people should really learn to not argue with police or resist them." I disagree at a general level that one should change one's behavior to placate a criminal. If people are having to do that, the problem is not that more people aren't trying to placate criminals, the problem is the criminals.

I have known 20-30 police in my life. Most were friends or was someone I was working with constructively. A few times the interactions have been unpleasant. I've never had any need to argue with police. But if that day comes up, I expect them to behave professionally and do their jobs.

Can you imagine if every time you get into some sort of argument with another poster online, you have to take steps to protect your identity to make damn sure they don't decide to track you down and off you?

 

[Seattle]

Because you posted "but people should really learn to not argue with police or resist them." I disagree at a general level that one should change one's behavior to placate a criminal. If people are having to do that, the problem is not that more people aren't trying to placate criminals, the problem is the criminals.

I have known 20-30 police in my life. Most were friends or was someone I was working with constructively. A few times the interactions have been unpleasant. I've never had any need to argue with police. But if that day comes up, I expect them to behave professionally and do their jobs.

If you come across one that is thinking about arresting you, will you attempt to struggle with them?

 

[billvon]

Can you imagine if every time you get into some sort of argument with another poster online, you have to take steps to protect your identity to make damn sure they don't decide to track you down and off you?

Sure, stalking on line is bad. But you should really learn not to reveal your identity at all.

 

[billvon]

If you come across one that is thinking about arresting you, will you attempt to struggle with them?

Depends. Will that leave my five year old unprotected? Then you bet I will. If I can afford the time to go down to the station and clear it up? Then I would go with them. But then again I'm white, so much less likely to be "accidentally" murdered.

 

[kx000]

If cops arent held accountable for their crimes, I fear something even worse could occur.

 

[parmalee]

Sure, stalking on line is bad. But you should really learn not to reveal your identity at all.

Not as easy as it might seem. For instance, I've figured out your full name from the info you've posted here, and could easily track down your address and other contact info if I so desired. Don't worry!. I have absolutely no intention of stalking you or harassing you or anything of the sort. I'm just sayin...

I think a lot of us occasionally slip out details which make it quite easy for even the not-so-web-savvy to glean this information. That there are so relatively few problems as a consequence somewhat restores my "faith" in humanity... Or maybe people are just really stupid or lazy.

 

[Seattle]

Depends. Will that leave my five year old unprotected? Then you bet I will. If I can afford the time to go down to the station and clear it up? Then I would go with them. But then again I'm white, so much less likely to be "accidentally" murdered.

True, but you're less likely to be "accidentally" murdered if you don't struggle with the cops to the point where you have you on the ground. I can't think of anyone who has been murdered by the police not struggling.

It's not about whether they are wrong or not. They are wrong. Still, it makes sense to take precautions. It's hard for things to get out of hand when you aren't struggling.

When I go to the dentist I have a right to move around and I can probably sue the dentist if I'm injured in his/her chair...yet I don't move around when I'm in the dentist's chair.

That's not "blaming" the victim. It's just pointing out ways to reduce the chances of becoming a victim.

 

[CptBork]

True, but you're less likely to be "accidentally" murdered if you don't struggle with the cops to the point where you have you on the ground. I can't think of anyone who has been murdered by the police not struggling.

It's not about whether they are wrong or not. They are wrong. Still, it makes sense to take precautions. It's hard for things to get out of hand when you aren't struggling.

When I go to the dentist I have a right to move around and I can probably sue the dentist if I'm injured in his/her chair...yet I don't move around when I'm in the dentist's chair.

That's not "blaming" the victim. It's just pointing out ways to reduce the chances of becoming a victim.

Attention: kicking an armed police officer in the nuts may or may not result in an illegal and regrettable response. This has been a public safety announcement brought to you by your friendly local elected officials. Also, Smokey the Bear says please don't throw any more Molotovs in the woods.

 

[CptBork]

Can you imagine if every time you get into some sort of argument with another poster online, you have to take steps to protect your identity to make damn sure they don't decide to track you down and off you?

I don't get where that came from, did someone threaten billvon?

 

[parmalee]

I don't get where that came from, did someone threaten billvon?

I was speaking to Seattle's idiotic suggestion that a mere "argument" is some sort of justification for escalating to actual violence and retaliation.

 

[billvon]

True, but you're less likely to be "accidentally" murdered if you don't struggle with the cops to the point where you have you on the ground. I can't think of anyone who has been murdered by the police not struggling.

2009. Oscar Grant. Pulled off a subway, sat against the wall, pushed onto the floor, shot in the back. Then handcuffed.

When I go to the dentist I have a right to move around and I can probably sue the dentist if I'm injured in his/her chair...yet I don't move around when I'm in the dentist's chair.

Agreed. Although if you are injured whether or not you are moving around - probably time to find another dentist.

 

[Seattle]

2009. Oscar Grant. Pulled off a subway, sat against the wall, pushed onto the floor, shot in the back. Then handcuffed.

Agreed. Although if you are injured whether or not you are moving around - probably time to find another dentist.

True.

Was George Floyd not struggling before the knee? I understand that what the cops did was illegal which was never my point, which you already know.

 

[sculptor]

True.

Was George Floyd not struggling before the knee? I understand that what the cops did was illegal which was never my point, which you already know.

Yeh
Mr. Floyd was struggling
His breathing was compromised by covid 19
and then, add in fentanyl which can cause respiratory distress, add in methamphetamines, and then, add in cigarettes and ............
that big man had some serious health and psychological risks
..................
He said that he couldn't breathe while still standing
and...................
.........................................
The policemen were acting out of fear of the big man, and ignorance of his underlying conditions.....with fatal consequences

I do not know what life in like in minneapolis, but they can take me off of their potential tourist list.

 

[Seattle]

Yeh
Mr. Floyd was struggling
His breathing was compromised by covid 19
and then, add in fentanyl which can cause respiratory distress, add in methamphetamines, and then, add in cigarettes and ............
that big man had some serious health and psychological risks
..................
He said that he couldn't breathe while still standing
and...................
.........................................
The policemen were acting out of fear of the big man, and ignorance of his underlying conditions.....with fatal consequences

I do not know what life in like in minneapolis, but they can take me off of their potential tourist list.

I'll probably stay away as well but if I do go, I won't fight with the police or attempt to use counterfeit money. Just in case I get stopped by a group of bad cops.

I pretty much act as if they all are bad cops and if they aren't, that's even better for me.

 

[billvon]

Yeh
Mr. Floyd was struggling
His breathing was compromised by covid 19
and then, add in fentanyl which can cause respiratory distress, add in methamphetamines, and then, add in cigarettes and ............
that big man had some serious health and psychological risks
The policemen were acting out of fear of the big man, and ignorance of his underlying conditions.....with fatal consequences.

"He was struggling and the officer feared for his life. No, he was on drugs. He had a heart condition, that's it! What really happened is Floyd tripped and fell under that officer's knee. He was a smoker. He's no choir boy! Plus he was crazy. He had COVID-19. The officer forgot his handcuffs so he had to use his knee. The cop was distraught because he had gotten a bad review. He was late for a meeting. He was getting a divorce. His dog just died. IT WASN'T HIS FAULT!"

 

[Seattle]

Except that no one that I've seen is arguing that any of the cops weren't at fault but please continue with your post...

 

[CptBork]

Yeh
Mr. Floyd was struggling
His breathing was compromised by covid 19
and then, add in fentanyl which can cause respiratory distress, add in methamphetamines, and then, add in cigarettes and ............
that big man had some serious health and psychological risks
..................
He said that he couldn't breathe while still standing
and...................
.........................................
The policemen were acting out of fear of the big man, and ignorance of his underlying conditions.....with fatal consequences

I do not know what life in like in minneapolis, but they can take me off of their potential tourist list.

Well I guess now we all know why you like guns so much. In the case of the police though, they're supposedly fit men with proper training who know how to fight their own battles and handle things with their arms and legs just fine. If they have guns, tasers, nightsticks, pepper spray, and there's 3 guys pinning a man in cuffs to the ground with another controlling the crowd while even the paramedics are telling them to let up, just how scared do they actually need to be? What exactly do you think your objections are good for, do you expect an acquittal?

Black guy sees three scary cops with guns coming after him, and he knows they have a reputation for assaulting and killing people such as himself. Do you sympathize with him if he gives in to fear and tries to resist arrest?

 

[billvon]

Except that no one that I've seen is arguing that any of the cops weren't at fault . . . . .

Sure, the cops were at fault. But look at that list of mitigating circumstances! They were certainly not intending for him to die. It's all a sad coincidence that he had COVID-19 and was disobedient and had a bad heart and was on meth and fentantyl and cigarettes and had some psychological problems and . . . .

You know what's missing from that list? The #1 reason he died? He was black.

 

[Seattle]

Sure, the cops were at fault. But look at that list of mitigating circumstances! They were certainly not intending for him to die. It's all a sad coincidence that he had COVID-19 and was disobedient and had a bad heart and was on meth and fentantyl and cigarettes and had some psychological problems and . . . .

You know what's missing from that list? The #1 reason he died? He was black.

That's probably the case but it's hard to tell. Do you think the cops treat big white guys with all those issues with a kid glove?

Back in the day in NYC it was the Italians and the Irish that got mistreated by the cops. Why, because they were the poor group and they committed a majority of the crimes that the beat cops dealt with on a daily bases and therefore when things got out of hand they were the ones who suffered.

The Italian and Irish kids of future generations improved their chances in life and all the beatings stopped. There was prejudice toward those groups because most Irish and Italians didn't commit crimes yet when most crimes stopped being committed by those groups their treatment by the cops changed.

So while it's probably true that the main reason he is dead is because he is black, that's always been the result of being associated with a group that is committing most of the violent crimes that a cop deals with in his beat.