Why I am sinner ?

Originally posted by Saint
it depends on which religion.
for buddhism, it talks about cause-and-effect, do bad get bad,do good get good. Even go to hell, you'll escape one day after the due punishment.

but christianity is cruel, the reason of going to hell is disbelieving in jesus.
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Hell is just the natural place you go when you die, i.e. the grave and whatever that entails. Think about it: 70 or so years of life, an eternity of death (or recycling until the earth becomes uninhabitable). Since you are a natural man, you will have to die a natural death no matter what you believe. You can't escape death. Christ does not send you to hell, He saves you from it since He has conquered death. No one else has.
 
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Jesus is big business!

Originally posted by Saint
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it depends on which religion. for buddhism, it talks about cause-and-effect, do bad get bad,do good get good. Even go to hell, you'll escape one day after the due punishment.

but christianity is cruel, the reason of going to hell is disbelieving in jesus.
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(Yes, you are right. When Saul/Paul successfully created Jesus as a deity by commissioning the Gospels to be written to reflect that, he created a big profitable business for himself. He sold amulets and coins to people with Jesus' image promising cures and everlasting life. He hawked his business all the way to Rome. Is it any wonder that he was beheaded for creating this "god" he was selling to the people of Rome? Hey, the whole Holy Roman Empire was based upon Xianity. No wonder it fell! It never ceases to amaze me that people still call themselves "Xians." I liken them to the story of the Emperor's New Clothes. If any of you aren't familiar with this story, I will be glad to relate to you the symbolism. How can so many millions of people believe a lie? Is it out of shear desperation for believing they will have everlasting life and win over death? You'd think that by NOW they would have realized that they are waiting in vain. There is no hope for these people. Even if it's a lie, they desperately cling to it. How pathetic!)
 
Believing the truth

Originally posted by Jenyar
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M*W, how do you know what you believe is true?
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(Jenyar, how do you know what YOU believe is true?)
 
Ouch.

Well... I'm not her, but i can say this- no one can possibly know until after we die if what we believe is true. Christians can believe in their god, i can have my belief, atheists can believe in nothing.. but no one really knows. It can't be scientifically disproven or proven, so all one can do is believe in what they believe in, let other people have their beliefs, and hope that, if there's another side, they don't get in big trouble because what they believed was the wrong thing. Then again.. there could be no other side, just eternal darkness.

Since no one ever comes back from death and remembers it, we'll probably never know. What about people remembering deaths from past lives? Maybe, but i'm not going to put a ton of stock in anyone who claims they remember a past life, since memory is a fickle thing, and lying comes easily to many people.. and if there are ones that aren't lying, they'll never be believed.
 
Everyone to his own belief

Originally posted by Silivren
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...i can say this- no one can possibly know until after we die if what we believe is true.
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(A very good post, thanks! Why do you think it is only AFTER we die that we will know the truth?)
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Christians can believe in their god, i can have my belief, atheists can believe in nothing.. but no one really knows. It can't be scientifically disproven or proven, so all one can do is believe in what they believe in, let other people have their beliefs, and hope that, if there's another side, they don't get in big trouble because what they believed was the wrong thing.
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(This just seems too disjointed. If there's only one Creator, then there has to be only one truth. I think the problem was caused by man-made religions when egos got involved. They all became "holier than thou," but they're ALL wrong! There's no need for man-made religion when it all boils down to God and you, or I'd rather say, "God=You." This leaves no room for doubt.)
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Then again.. there could be no other side, just eternal darkness. Since no one ever comes back from death and remembers it, we'll probably never know. What about people remembering deaths from past lives? Maybe, but i'm not going to put a ton of stock in anyone who claims they remember a past life, since memory is a fickle thing, and lying comes easily to many people.. and if there are ones that aren't lying, they'll never be believed.
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(Well, here's the problem: In human form, we only use 4-10% of our brains, so we're not running at full capacity. In spiritual form, we have 100% of our brain faculties up and running. When that portion of our spirit returns to another Earthsuit, 90-96% of our brain shuts down for about 80 years while we atone for our mistakes in previous trips in the Earthsuit.)
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(I like to think of the entire human race as one body that contains the One Spirit of God. This one body is the vehicle for the Spirit of God on the face of the Earth. While we are alive, we carry the spirit. When we are no longer breathing, we are one in the spirit. That's eternity. There is no death, so we needn't ever worry about that.)
 
(A very good post, thanks! Why do you think it is only AFTER we die that we will know the truth?)
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Because there are so many different ways of belief that, while there might be one certain belief that is true, every person will believe in their hearts that their way of thinking is true. Unless the creator fufills whatever we think is true after death, we won't know 'till then what truly is true.
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(This just seems too disjointed. If there's only one Creator, then there has to be only one truth. I think the problem was caused by man-made religions when egos got involved. They all became "holier than thou," but they're ALL wrong! There's no need for man-made religion when it all boils down to God and you, or I'd rather say, "God=You." This leaves no room for doubt.)
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See, you believe it's true, so it's true for you. But saying there isn't a possibility that someone else's religion might be true is sort of hypocritical. Someone of another religion could come up to you and say that your wrong, and their beliefs are true.. and backing yourself up by saying the exact same thing, just worded to fit what you believe in, isn't backing anything up. In a way, some of your posts take on the Holier-than-though stanpoint, though you tend to have better points them most of the christians i've seen here.. all they blow off is bible quotations that have been force fed.

All religions are man made, in some way, even the oldest ones.. I honestly think that what people believe in their hearts is true for them, and they have every right to believe that as long as they don't try to limit the rights of others.
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(Well, here's the problem: In human form, we only use 4-10% of our brains, so we're not running at full capacity. In spiritual form, we have 100% of our brain faculties up and running. When that portion of our spirit returns to another Earthsuit, 90-96% of our brain shuts down for about 80 years while we atone for our mistakes in previous trips in the Earthsuit.)
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Exactly, though scientists try to dispute that figure. Which is why i will never stop believing in the paranormal, or something after the death of our coporeal selves.

But there's always the small chance that maybe we've stopped using that large amount of brain due to evolution; maybe it's for smell, or hearing, or something that we have lost use for over the aeons. No matter how deeply i will ever believe in something, the thought that are spirits are nothing will always be in a dark, hidden corner of my mind, if only to remind myself that my beliefs may hold no more sway than those of others.
 
You can only be a sinner if you buy into the ridiculous concept of "sin".

Well I guess you could buy into someone else labelling you as such, but that's pretty much the same thing.

So you are a sinner because you believe in sin or you're buying that someone else's label of you.
 
Originally posted by Jenyar
Think about it: 70 or so years of life, an eternity of death (or recycling until the earth becomes uninhabitable).
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70 or so years of life, one death. After death, there is no time. As there is no time, it certainly can't last an eternity.
 
posted by Medicine*Woman
Jenyar, how do you know what YOU believe is true?
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I know it because the Bible corroborates with experience. When I live according to God's will, I can see God's will in action, and it leaves little doubt that the author of the experience wasn't me, but God. Left to my own natural desires, I would never have felt any need to act or think like I do. Faith works, and works build faith.

posted by Silivren
Well... I'm not her, but i can say this- no one can possibly know until after we die if what we believe is true. Christians can believe in their god, i can have my belief, atheists can believe in nothing.. but no one really knows. It can't be scientifically disproven or proven, so all one can do is believe in what they believe in, let other people have their beliefs, and hope that, if there's another side, they don't get in big trouble because what they believed was the wrong thing. Then again.. there could be no other side, just eternal darkness.
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Only a God who exists is possible to know, so the one we have knowledge about is the true God. Not stories about God, because those cannot be corroborated. Not just stories about people, because that's called history or myth. But stories about people in a living relationship with God, because that is what you will also have if you could believe in Him.

"No-one really knows" is no excuse, because God has made himself known. It would be more accurate to say you don't believe God revealed himself to his creation, which means you ignore anything that claims to be revelation.

posted by Medicine*Woman
Well, here's the problem: In human form, we only use 4-10% of our brains, so we're not running at full capacity. In spiritual form, we have 100% of our brain faculties up and running. When that portion of our spirit returns to another Earthsuit, 90-96% of our brain shuts down for about 80 years while we atone for our mistakes in previous trips in the Earthsuit.
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That's a myth. You use all of your brain: Do we use only 10% of our brain?.

You mean our potential is always greater than our abilities.
posted by wesmorris
You can only be a sinner if you buy into the ridiculous concept of "sin".
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A sinner is anybody born under the consequences of sin, whether they believe or not. Since the consequences are universally visible: hatred, immorality, lawlessness, etc. - it is quite easy to recognize yourself as trapped by it. "Sin" is just a collective word for life without God. If someone tells you you live in the earth's atmosphere, it will be true even if you don't believe him.
70 or so years of life, one death. After death, there is no time. As there is no time, it certainly can't last an eternity.
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Eternity is what we call it when there is no time - "time" loses any meaning. You're not just dead for a moment, you're dead for eternity.
 
(Only a God who exists is possible to know, so the one we have knowledge about is the true God. Not stories about God, because those cannot be corroborated. Not just stories about people, because that's called history or myth. But stories about people in a living relationship with God, because that is what you will also have if you could believe in Him.

"No-one really knows" is no excuse, because God has made himself known. It would be more accurate to say you don't believe God revealed himself to his creation, which means you ignore anything that claims to be revelation.)
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That's what you believe in, and by all means, it might be true for you... But think for a moment. What if God wasn't who you thought he was. Say, what if god is a woman? Black? What if there's more than one god, or anything and anything is part of god? There are so many possibilities for a higher power that could be translated into the christian god, which may or may not have revealed themselves. If that means i ignore your god, so be it.

And... i choose to ignore the bible because it is a confusing, bigoted, contradicing, and hypocritical piece of work. Everything in there, at least by non-christians, must be taken with a grain of salt
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(A sinner is anybody born under the consequences of sin, whether they believe or not. Since the consequences are universally visible: hatred, immorality, lawlessness, etc. - it is quite easy to recognize yourself as trapped by it. "Sin" is just a collective word for life without God. If someone tells you you live in the earth's atmosphere, it will be true even if you don't believe him.)
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So, you're saying that even though i live the best life i can, try to be kind and equal to everyone... I'm still going to hell? Nice god to believe in, condemning the people who are a little teensy bit skeptical to an eternity of torture. Yeah. Uh-huh. Karma

And umm... You can definately feel the earth's atmosphere. It is there, in front of you.. You can't see it, most of the time, but you can feel it, taste it... hear the wind, smell things carried by it. Definately a very very physical thing to believe in. If someone didn't believe in the atmosphere.. i'd be suprised. Very suprised.

Now.. Something like other galaxies that we only have pictures of and i have no personal experiance? If someone didn't believe in those, it wouldn't be as implausible.

:D
 
you are beast!
no dignity of human
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The naturalist holds humanity with more dignity than the religious, because he sees everything, not what his sheltered eyes wish to see.
 
This just seems too disjointed. If there's only one Creator, then there has to be only one truth.
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This is the biggest distinction between the ancient way of thinking and the Judeo-Christian way of thinking, which is the plague upon modern human thought. In pagan times all concepts and perspectives of a god were true, and each path was different but equally true (thus 'Poly' theism). Even the earliest Jews approached their one god in this manner, but they were ultimately genocided by their peers.

Now people get frustrated because their religious ideas are 'more true' than the other. Infinite reality=infinite perspectives. If a Creator created this world, then all persectives are right. Call it a post-moral monotheism. If there is no creator, then all activities have no value (other than the ones we give them). This is nihilism.
 
Originally posted by and2000x
The naturalist holds humanity with more dignity than the religious, because he sees everything, not what his sheltered eyes wish to see.
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To quote a few non-religious people here:

posted by Dr Lou Natic
we are its [the universe's] dogs which it rewards and punishes to get jobs done, and like dogs we have no idea what the jobs are, we just know if we do them we'll get a treat (ie pleasure, satisfaction etc)
Perhaps the universe isn't the one doing this, it could be a dog as well, but the bottom line is we are employees that don't have a clue what we are working on, the only thing about us that could possibly be of any significance is the task we are doing and we don't even know what that is.

posted by atheroy
we give no meaning to the world around us, such an arogant view gets on my nerves. look at how big we are, then look at how big the universe is. purpose we give to ourselves because we feel important, god is a manifestation of our feelings of importance.

we give purpose to oursleves, but we don't actually have any purpose. if we are bestowing something on ourselves it has as much relevance to the rest of the universe as me singing rubber ducky in nordic. we don't have purpose, the universe doesn't have purpose.

So we are only significant in our own eyes, and even that is just a lie we tell ourselves to feel better about being basically animals. Apparently we don't deserve dignity, we create it artificially.
 
Originally posted by Cris
There was never a “mind” behind the awful mystery.
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Of course! How could i have been so blind.
So when he said; "I want to know how God thinks. Everything else is a detail." What he was really saying was; "I want to know how nature thinks. There is nothing else. :D

Love

Jan Ardena.
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/A sinner is anybody born under the consequences of sin, whether they believe or not.

Wrong. That's your presumption. I think you're sick. I reject your bullshit. Label me as you must, but I reject your label as simplistic, presumtuous, arrogant, ignorant, shallow and sheepish.

/Since the consequences are universally visible: hatred, immorality, lawlessness, etc. - it is quite easy to recognize yourself as trapped by it.

That is an incredibly shallow analysis. Man what is wrong with you? Everything has to be your way cuz that's what screepsher sez huh? Man that is flabbergasting.

/"Sin" is just a collective word for life without God.

RETARDS is just a collective word for religious people. Do you refute my label? Oh but I can't refute yours? Wow, how convenient for you to justify your arrogance. Nice.

/If someone tells you you live in the earth's atmosphere, it will be true even if you don't believe him.

Comparing a physical requirement for life to a pychosis instilled in you by your cult is stupid. I mean, literally stupid. Der. It's like "der, yeah well if you steal all my blood then I'll die and the same thing will happen if you don't accept jesus into your heart". Man that's just sickening.

DO YOU HAVE A BRAIN OR DID YOU PUT IT IN THE COLLECTION PLATE?

I suspect the latter.
 
not all religious people are totally retarded.. I actually have a friend who is a jehovah's witness (of all things,) and while we can't discuss religion around her, she is one of the sweetest people you could ever meet. And she never preaches...

... Though it's the retarded ones that argue their religion most vehemently. I actually had a guy sit me down and tell me that if i didn't confess my sins to jesus, i would go to hell. Uh-huh. Yeah. Bye!
 
Originally posted by Silivren
. Though it's the retarded ones that argue their religion most vehemently. I actually had a guy sit me down and tell me that if i didn't confess my sins to jesus, i would go to hell. Uh-huh. Yeah. Bye!
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they think they get good points with their imaginary skydady when they "save"some so called sinner:rolleyes:
 
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