Will the meek Hinduism survive?

Discussion in 'Eastern Philosophy' started by UltiTruth, Feb 4, 2003.

  1. UltiTruth In pursuit... Registered Senior Member

    The more I think of it, the more I begin to wonder if the meek & listless Eastern Philosphies and religions will survive the onslaught of the loud and aggressive philosophies and religions, in which expansion is a key requirement. One key difference is that the religions do not call for propagation and the followers are too self-contented.

    Atleast 15 Hindu men were killed over a period of a few months, in the city of Hyderabad by a group of 4 muslim youth. The reason?- religious hate. The modus operandi?- select an innocent guy waiting for a bus, offer him a lift in their car, and slit his throat on way. The gang was nabbed 4 days back. What surprises is that this is not even national news in the country! Not even a whimper. Imagine the same thing if it were the other way round- it would have created an international outcry!- The meek Hindu?

    Way back in 1947- India is divided into India and Pakistan on a 'Religious' basis. Pakistan is an Islamic country and India, in all its greatness(!) chooses to be secular- and now, some of the islamic parts want to break off. Tolerance, the mantra!

    Further way back- the country is ripped by invaders of all kinds; and the countrymen recite from the Karma siddhanta- the unfair aggressor would face the consequence by his own karma. So today thousands of temples lie under the basements of the religious places of other faiths. And a Hindu country never invaded any other, despite the scientific advancements they had in the old times.

    The Bamiyan Buddhas, among the oldest and largest idols in the world, are pounded and pulverized in Afghanisthan, and here we chant "Budham saranam gachami"!

    There is often a talk of adaptability of the religion; and an argument that since it has survived so far, it will never die. But won't it?
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  3. Empty Dragon Empty Registered Senior Member

    I think it will survive. It is content to be what it is. Its popularity willl shrink or increase over time. I do not think It would be lost. I do not think that all hindus would abandon there ways. Hide them mabye but abandon them...never. The religion it self might die out. As long as there are humans who seek truth its spirit will live on.
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  5. spookz Banned Banned

    the mogul and english incursions that brought their respective religions are long gone. forcible conversions are a thing of the past. i imagine the 2 proselytizing religions are actively seeking converts but i would imagine the numbers to be negligible. i'll dig up some links on the web

    this is a nationalistic/sky is falling type article that pretty much raises the same concers as you do ulti

    The clash of civilizations will continue, indeed, will become more pronounced, unless Christianity and Islam give up their institutionalized religious bigotry and world-conquering ambitions. This is very unlikely as bigotry and imperialism are inherent within their belief systems. These systems have to be reformed but cannot be reformed because they are said to be the work of divine revelation. As the systems cannot be changed the adherents of the systems have to be weaned away from them. This has happened in Europe and to a lesser extent in America where Christianity has been abandoned for humanism and Vedantic spirituality. But this has not yet happened in the Islamic and Marxist worlds of Asia. (Swami Devananda Saraswati )
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2003
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  7. everneo Re-searcher Registered Senior Member

    Hinduism is an adaptive religion which survived over centuries despite of onslaughts from all directions. Hindus see Muslims and Christians as followers of GOD called by different names. There is no restrictions on GOD that he should assume only one identity!. Believing that god is everywhere. But hinduism got polluted by some senseless practices. But spirit of the religion lives for ever.

  8. UltiTruth In pursuit... Registered Senior Member

    But would it be the responsibility of the followers of a faith to protect the faith?
    ... or is it ok to be indifferent and content?
  9. everneo Re-searcher Registered Senior Member

    It is like, 100 million is too big to change over.

    There is no religious duty to protect their faith. But there is a duty to protect the "dharma". The righteousness. In case of Hinduism there is a general, subtler belief - God comes to the resque of Good and Correct the bad - by the avatars, reincarnation etc.

    For that matter almost all religions are under threat from the cultural decay fast catching up in the world.

    And fanaticism in any religion is no answer for security/protection.
  10. spookz Banned Banned

    take a look at hindutva politics. pretty fundamentalist type shit

    Children of the Divine Mother, Bharat Mata, it is every Indian's sworn duty to serve and protect that great land, to ensure its continued and ongoing survival and prosperity. We have been left with a great inheritance - one which our forefathers for over a thousand years, fought hard to reclaim that we may never have to suffer being bound by the chains of slavery and oppression.

    Today, our dear Mother, Maa Bharat, is fighting for survival. Countless separatist strikes from all sides threaten to tear Her apart limb from limb. The vile, insidious disease of corruption, spread by self-serving politicians is spreading its venomous juices slowly through Her body. The dagger of religious fundamentalism, in the guise of the "peaceful and tolerant" faith of Islam, is pointed directly at Her throat. For countless generations, Bharat Mata has sheltered Her children, protecting them, and showering them with Her limitless love. But now, in this, Her most desperate hour, She needs us. It is our turn to show Her that we, Her children, will not desert Her when She needs us most.


    Unlike the Jewish holocaust, the exact toll of the Hindu genocide suggested by the name Hindu Kush is not available. However the number is easily likely to be in millions. A few known historical figures can be used to justify this estimate. Encyclopaedia Britannica informs that in December 1398 AD, Timur Lane ordered the execution of at least 50,000 captives before the battle for Delhi,...and after the battle those inhabitants (of Delhi) not killed were removed (as slaves), while other references say that the number of captives butchered by Timur Lane's army was about 100,000. Later on Encyclopaedia Britannica mentions that the (secular?) Mughal Emperor Akbar 'ordered the massacre of about 30,000 (captured) Rajput Hindus on February 24, 1568 AD, after the battle for Chitod. Another reference indicates that this massacre of 30,000 Hindu peasants at Chitod is recorded by Abul Fazl, Akbar's court historian himself. These two 'one day' massacres are sufficient to provide a reference point for estimating the scale of Hindu genocide. The Afghan historian Khondamir records that during one of the many repeated invasions on the city of Herat in Western Afghanistan, 1,500,000 residents perished.

    The Moghul rule of Bharat was characterised by mass genocide, destruction and desecration - atrocity after gruesome atrocity marked this era out as the darkest period of human history, and yet, the world is blissfully unaware that such a period ever existed. The darkest age of mankind is instead disguised as an era of artistic, musical and literary excellence, in which inter-cultural interaction and racial harmony were the order of the day. Countless millions of unimaginably cruel and horrific violations of not just human rights, but humanity itself, have been completely wiped clean and forgotten. It is of paramount importance that this situation is rectified immediately.


    It is essential that the dormant spirit of Hindutva which lies in each and every Hindu throughout the world is aroused. Hindus, intoxicated with the short-term benefits of the Western, get-rich-quick lifestyle, need to arise from their drunken stupor and assert themselves. The lion of Hindutva must once again roar throughout the world, for "Hindu jage to vishwa jagegaa" (When the Hindu rises, then the whole world will awaken).



    Last edited: Feb 8, 2003
  11. spookz Banned Banned

    fascinating shit!

    A married Hindu lady, Kanchan Mishra was abducted by Muslim gangsters and politicians, raped and still being kept in their harem! Several Hindus beheaded by Muslims in Kashmir! A 14-year old Hindu girl burnt by 3 Muslims for resisting rape! Another 12-year Hindu girl was raped by at least 15 men in Bangladesh! In Bangladesh itself, several Hindu girls were abducted, converted to Islam and married off to worthless Muslims! Thousands of Bangladeshi Hindus have abandoned their lands and fled to India! Several temples have been robbed and had their idols destroyed by Muslims in India itself! 3 innocent Hindu students were killed by Muslim Police officer in Bihar! A Hindu boy was throwned out of a moving train and killed by a Muslim army man! Several Hindus have been killed by Muslim gangster group in Andhra Pradesh! And many more such incidents!

    And now, 10 Hindu girls are abducted from a wedding party by Muslims and raped in a nearby madrassa!

    All of this happened just in the last 2-3 months! When will we see Muslims being made to pay for these crimes? Will our wish ever be fulfilled? Can anyone fulfill this wish of millions and millions of Hindus? Can anyone give us a reason to be proud to be born Hindu? Are there a lack of Muslims in India? Anyone will do! Even Muslim beggars! Can't we even do this and engrave with a knife on their backs that we did it to avenge the rape opf our sisters. We can't have a better place to put up such a message than on the backs of dead Muslims!

    I'm tired and fed up that Hindus are always on the receiving end! We urgently need something to make us believe in our cause again! Anything will do. It's been bad news all the way for us during the last 3 months. ! We need armed militants, not politicians! We need warriors, not scientists!

    More Hindus will be ready to give money and recommend friends to contribute if this money is to be used to protect Hindus. But few are thrilled with the idea of giving money for educating Hindus because they know it's not going to matter. Hindus need security and dignity, not academic qualifications! Can their qualifications prevent them from being killed or their sisters and mothers from being raped? Why waste more money educating Hindu boys & girls when we can't even protect them when they are grown up?

    It's no longer a question of poverty. Any Hindu is at risk! Let's use our money to train Hindus to become warriors! They'll earn more respect from Hindus all over the world than they ever will by becoming politicians or scientists. Hindus are in desperate need of true-life heros. Aren't there any Hindu gangsters in India who can be paid to get these jobs done? We have have worked quite hard the last few months but nothing has been achieved!


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  12. everneo Re-searcher Registered Senior Member

    It is a typographical error. It is 1000 million.

    If we start quoting fanatical shits from sites, i think no religion / isms will look better.!..


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  13. UltiTruth In pursuit... Registered Senior Member

    Politics is another big story, but I am talking about the day to day life. The incident I mentioned above happened within a 2-km radius of where I live, and I could easily have been the one waiting for the bus!!!

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    And the reality is that different rules apply for the two faiths. If a car rams into you standing on road, and you find that the driver is from one faith, it is better to shut up, lest you be beaten and sliced, even if the driver is hardly 13 years of age. This is experience!
    I too really wish that I could look at it as a lot of exaggeration as you can look at it!
    And let me add that I am not a fanatic or anything- I visit and pray at churches and mosques too!
  14. spookz Banned Banned

    obviously i cannot comment on day to day life. i still prefer to look at the "big picture" ulti, if i implied that you were fanatical or prone to exaggeration, i apologise. this is the first time i am consciously taking a look at this issue so there is no way that i am aware of all the facts. a question. wasnt the bjp platform pretty much based on hindu nationalism?
  15. UltiTruth In pursuit... Registered Senior Member

    No doubt about that! But did you realize that the voting of muslims has ALWAYS been based on religion, regardless of the candidate? Or that if the Hindu vote was really united in the height of passions, then no other party would have had any seats- which never happened. Or that the so called Hindu parties are staunchly opposed by the majority of other parties on religious issues, though they apparently would contain a majority of Hindus too? Did you look at the levels of minority-appeasement that happens?
    And could the BJP take one single step on the passionate Babri masjid issue, in spite of all the promises? All this shows the level of moderation a regular Hindu has. And I believe, a majority wouldn't favour raking up the mandir-masjid issue once again.
    Did you know that policemen who went for curtailing illegal power connections from the electricity poles were beaten blue and black in muslim dominated areas? Or that the majority of all criminals are from a single minority? And the first incident you mentioned about a married woman being held captive is a published story, though I haven't read about most others.
    Tolerance and respect for religions is always great, but it cannot be one-sided every time. If almost every temple of the name that remains has a mosque on what once was its 'garbha-gudi', and the deity has shifted to accommodate the green structure, can heart-burn be avoided?
  16. spookz Banned Banned

    patenting the vedas

    After successfully fighting the battle of trademark traditional produce like neem, karela, turmeric and basmati, India may have to fight for a bid being made to patent its spiritual tradition in the USA - meditation techniques practised in India since ages. It has been reported in August that applications have been filed in the United States to patent meditation methods like Kundalini and Nadabrakhma which have been practised by our sages and yogis over generations. ``Flawless, exceedingly sweet and beautiful, soul enchanting, uninterrupted flow of words manifests itself on all sides in them (devotees blessed with genius) who keep you. O Shakti (energy) of Shiva (universal consciousness), the destroyer of Kamadeva (Cupid), constantly in their mind,'' says Panchastavi, a highly esoteric work on Kundalini (3.12).


    hmm! time to get proactive i guess!
  17. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    This is not about religion in the real sense, but a display of ignorance. By ignorance i mean bodily designation.

    "Untill the philosophy which holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and utterly destroyed, everywhere will be war."

    Bob Marley, from a speech given by Emporor Selasie 1st.


    Jan Ardena.
  18. UltiTruth In pursuit... Registered Senior Member

    Re: Re: Will the meek Hinduism survive?

    Mind elaborating what you mean by this?
  19. spookz Banned Banned

    Opening the 10/40 Window

    The core of the unreached people of our world live in a rectangular-shaped window! Often called "The Resistant Belt," the window extends from West Africa to East Asia, from ten degrees north to forty degrees north of the equator. If we are serious about providing a valid opportunity for every person to experience the truth and saving power of Jesus Christ, we cannot ignore the compelling reality of The 10/40 Window regions and its billions of impoverished souls.

    The 10/40 Window confronts us with seven important realities: first, the historical and biblical significance; second, the least evangelized countries; third, the dominance of the three religious blocks; fourth, the preponderance of the poor; fifth, the unreached ethnolinguistic people groups; sixth, the least evangelized megacities; and seventh, the strongholds of Satan within the The 10/40 Window.

    Historical Significance

    Why do committed Christians need to focus on The 10/40 Window? First, because of the historical and biblical significance of this part of the world. Indeed the Bible begins with the account of Adam and Eve placed by God in the heart of what is now The 10/40 Window. God's plan expressed in Genesis 1:26 was that mankind would have dominion over the earth, subduing it fully. However, Adam and Eve sinned against God and forfeited their right to rule. Later, in man’s sinful rebellion, came the futile attempt to establish new dominion in the building of the great Tower of Babel. That effort, which also occurred in the center of The 10/40 Window, was an open defiance against God. Once again, as God had done in the flood, He reached forth His hand in judgment. The result was the introduction of different languages, the scattering of the earth’s people, and the formation of nations.

    Ancient history was worked out in the territory marked by The 10/40 Window from the cradle of civilization in Mesopotamia across the Fertile Crescent to Egypt. Ancient empires came and went. The fate of God's people Israel rose and fell depending on their obedience to the covenant with their God. It was here that Christ was born, lived a perfect life, died sacrificially on the cross, and rose triumphantly over death. The church age was ushered in, and it was not until the second missionary journey of the apostle Paul toward the end of the biblical record that events of biblical history occurred outside of the territory identified as The 10/40 Window. Without question, this is an area of great historical and biblical importance.

    Unevangelized Peoples

    The second reason why committed Christians should focus on the 10/40 Window is because it is home to the majority of unevangelized people. The "unevangelized" are people who have minimal to no knowledge of the gospel and have had no valid opportunity to respond to it.

    While it only constitutes one-third of the earth’s total land area, nearly two-thirds of the people in the world reside in The 10/40 Window. More astonishing is the fact that 97 percent of all the world’s unevangelized peoples live in The 10/40 Window. This leaves no doubt that the challenge of reaching the unreached must center on the core - The 10/40 Window.

    If we take seriously the mandate to preach the gospel to every person, to make disciples of all peoples, and to be Christ’s witnesses to the ends of the earth, we must recognize the priority of concentrating our efforts on The 10/40 Window. No other area is so blatantly in need of the truth that salvation is only in Jesus Christ.

    The Heart of Religions

    A third reason we must focus on The 10/40 Window is that it is the heart of three of our worlds major religious blocks. The majority of those enslaved by Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism live within The 10/40 Window. The Muslim world, of over 700 million people, stretches in a wide band across the north of Africa to the middle east and even has some significant presence all throughout Asia. The middle of The 10/40 Window is overshadowed by the subcontinent of India and its over 700 million adherents to Hinduism. In Asia Buddhism dominates the lives of the people.

    From its center in The 10/40 Window, Islam is reaching out energetically to all parts of the globe; in a similar strategy, we must penetrate the heart of Islam with the liberating truth of the gospel. We must do all in our power to show Muslims that the highest prophet described in the Koran is not Mohammed, but Jesus. And that He is not only the greatest prophet, but the Son of God Himself who died and was resurrected in order that millions of Muslims might be saved.

    Overwhelmed by poverty and ravaged by disease, India is victimized more severely by the spiritual blindness of Hinduism. To a nation in which fatted cows roam freely among emaciated humans, we must proclaim the truth that Jesus came to give us life and give it abundantly.

    With all of Southeast Asia, most of China and the Far East falling into the category of Buddhist, it is easy to see that this is the largest, most identifiable group in The 10/40 Window. The Buddhist world comprises more than 1 billion people who are in desperate need of Jesus Christ..

    The World's Poor

    The fourth reason to focus our attention on The 10/40 Window is that the poor are there. In fact, more than eight out of ten of the poorest of the poor--who on the average have a gross national product of under $500 per person per year live in The 10/40 Window. Although 2.4 billion of these people live within The 10/40 Window, only 8% of all missionaries work among them.

    In the book Target Earth, Bryant L. Myers of World Vision and MARC wrote and article titled "Where Are the Poor and Lost?" Myers suggested that "the poor are lost, and the lost are poor." He arrived at this conclusion after observing that the majority of the unreached live in the poorest countries of the world.

    When Christians gathered from 170 countries at Lausanne II in Manila in 1989, great concern was expressed for the materially poor of the world. In the second section of the Manila Manifesto, that concern was recorded with the following declaration: "We have again been confronted with Luke's emphasis that the Gospel is the Good News for the poor (Luke 4:18, 6:20, 7:22) and have asked ourselves what this means to the majority of the world's population who are destitute, suffering and oppressed. We have been reminded that the law, the prophets, and the wisdom books and the teaching and ministry of Jesus, all stress God's concern for the materially poor and our consequent duty to defend and care for them."

    Committed Christians cannot ignore the reality that there is a remarkable overlap between the poorest countries of the world and the least evangelized countries of the world. In fact, 79 percent of the people who are poorest are also in the least evangelized countries of the world.


    The fifth reason we must address our concerns on The 10/40 Window is because it contains the largest spiritually bankrupt ethnolinguistic megapeoples (over one million). Over 90% of these people groups live in The 10/40 Window. To reach these people for Christ is often an infinitely more difficult task than that of smaller tribal groups. Some of these megagroups without Christ number in the tens of millions and comprise a foreboding, yet God-sized challenge to the Church.


    The sixth reason we must focus on The 10/40 Window is that it contains the overwhelming majority of the world’s least evangelized megacities—that is, those with a population of more than one million. Of the top 50 cities on this list, all 50 are in The 10/40 Window! This fact alone underscores the need for prioritizing our efforts to reach these great metroplexes with Christ’s love and truth.

    Stronghold of Satan

    Why do committed Christians need to focus on The 10/40 Window? Because it includes numerous strong-holds of Satan. The billions of people living in The 10/40 Window have suffered not only the ravages of poverty and disease, they have also been kept from the transforming power of the gospel. They are poignant examples of the truth expressed in 2 Corinthians 4:4, which states, "the god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."

    We must not view this situation with a fatalistic attitude, for we have been granted power to intervene. In the same letter, the Apostle Paul declares, "For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds" (2 Corinthians 10:3-4). Although Satan has established a territorial stronghold in The 10/40 Window, we must not concede one parcel of land nor one person. The gospel must advance!

    In the fascinating passage of Daniel 10, we see the reality of territorial spiritual warfare unveiled. The angel who visited Daniel announced that he would have to return to battle the Prince of Persia. Apparently that battle and others like it still rage. Persia of old is Iran of today, and sits in the center of The 10/40 Window, still a stronghold of Satan.

    It is evident that the forces of Satan have great power and will resist all attempts to be overcome. If we are to storm the enemy’s territory, we must put on the full armor of God and fight with the weapons of spiritual warfare described in Ephesians 6. To depend on anything else is utter foolishness.

    All of this demands that we reevaluate our priorities. We must find the most innovative ways to reach the billions of people within The 10/40 Window with the love and truth of Jesus Christ. We must mobilize for a massive prayer focus on The 10/40 window with the body of Christ worldwide.

    If we are to be faithful to Scripture, obedient to the mandate of Christ, unwavering in our commitment to plant churches within every people group by the year 2000, then we must get down to the core of the unreached—The 10/40 Window.

    May God grant each of us boldness and wisdom and energy to do our part in taking on this great and eternally significant challenge! (Luis Bush)
  20. spookz Banned Banned

    In short, Buddhism is all but dead. In its huge organism the faint pulsations of life are still discernible, but its power of activity is gone. The spread of European civilization over the East will inevitably bring about its extinction. - Catholic Encyclopedia
  21. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

    Re: Re: Re: Will the meek Hinduism survive?

    In all bona-fide religous scriptures, the point comes to surrendering to God, this is the point of religion. As there are different types of mentalities within people, there are different ways one can come to the point of surrender to God, but essentially it is the same thing, hence different religions.
    In all bona-fide religions there are rules and regulations one should adhere to if liberation is to be acheived, failure to do this means we must remain on the material platform as opposed to going back home to God. In the bible it says "the wages of sin is death and the gift of God is eternal life."
    When act outside of the rules and regulations, we become responsible for our own well-being and thus have to struggle to attain temporary happiness. In our attempts at happiness, we at some point transgress the laws of nature, when we get bodily satisfaction we want more, we get more and we want more, we become lustfull, forget God, and lose sight of what the aim of life is.
    This is ignorance.

    When people murder there has to be some justification for it, sometimes its for revenge, passion, hatred on account that one is black, white, a woman, a man, through greed, envy, a jew, a hindu, a muslim, an american, a manchester united fan.......so many things.
    I used to go into yahoo chatrooms, and the discourse between hindus and muslims at times were absolutely disgusting, althought they were hindus and muslims, they never discussed religion, they simply hurled insults at each other.
    So how can you say it is because of religion, actual religion does not distinguish between hindus, muslims, christians or jews.


    Jan Ardena.
  22. UltiTruth In pursuit... Registered Senior Member

    That was precisely my point. I respect all the religions and make an effort to understand them, but the hate that emanates from some of the followers of some faiths is too hard to bear!
    I still am not clear if you are calling my post as "being out of ignorance"?!

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    Last edited: Feb 10, 2003
  23. spookz Banned Banned

    what jan says is pretty cool. what actually happens is not that cool. no doubt hurling slurs at each other is unproductive but i believe that if problems exists, people should be made aware of that. so back to the topic will hinduism survive? lets take a look at the destruction of temples by the moslem invaders.
    the relevance here is that, hindus are trying to turn the mosques back in to temples. hence the strife.

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