Wonderful Heaven
- Thread starter Michael
- Start date
SouthStar,
In addition to what others have eloquently said here on this matter I'll add this suggestion - try describing any of God's commands that do not include either an explicit or implicit choice.
In fact try describing any command of any type by anyone that doesn’t imply a choice. One always has the choice to obey or disobey a command. Whether the details of the choice are appended at the time, stated earlier or later, makes absolutely no difference to the fact that a COMMAND has been issued.
God was very clearly not offering Adam a choice, he was telling him very distinctly not to eat the fruit (this is a command), and then he described the consequences if he did. If he was offering a choice as you are insisting he would say something like – “you are free to eat the fruit on the tree if you so choose but if you do you will die”. That is clearly not a command, but the context of the passages doesn’t include anything like that and indeed quite the opposite.
Please don’t continue to be foolishly stubborn on this rather obvious issue as so many here can plainly see. You are beginning to look very silly in trying to so transparently twist words out of context as again we can all see. Try a different approach as this one cannot work. You will receive significant respect if you can admit you are wrong on this.
Kat
In addition to what others have eloquently said here on this matter I'll add this suggestion - try describing any of God's commands that do not include either an explicit or implicit choice.
In fact try describing any command of any type by anyone that doesn’t imply a choice. One always has the choice to obey or disobey a command. Whether the details of the choice are appended at the time, stated earlier or later, makes absolutely no difference to the fact that a COMMAND has been issued.
God was very clearly not offering Adam a choice, he was telling him very distinctly not to eat the fruit (this is a command), and then he described the consequences if he did. If he was offering a choice as you are insisting he would say something like – “you are free to eat the fruit on the tree if you so choose but if you do you will die”. That is clearly not a command, but the context of the passages doesn’t include anything like that and indeed quite the opposite.
Please don’t continue to be foolishly stubborn on this rather obvious issue as so many here can plainly see. You are beginning to look very silly in trying to so transparently twist words out of context as again we can all see. Try a different approach as this one cannot work. You will receive significant respect if you can admit you are wrong on this.
Kat
Enigma'07 said:
99.9999 % I do
This fence will probably last my lifetime here on earth. I am prepared for any(if there is one) judgement that will follow. I will accept it. I worry not.
I think he cares not of this detail, but thats only IMO. I shall not waver. But nothing is set in stone.
Not too good at math are you? That's .0001% untrustingness. By the way, that .0001% uncertainty is going to send you to hell, Oliver.
invert_nexus said:Not too good at math are you? That's .0001% untrustingness. By the way, that .0001% uncertainty is going to send you to hell, Oliver.
For sure , if in fact its all true. I will accept that.
Wonder if I could just get a peek before I'm cast down ??
Good night brothers...... gotta get up early.....I'll check this topic tomorrorw.
Sorry, I can't think straight this late at night.
Romans 10:9
If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
This is the ONLY condition for salvation. Oliver, I think that if the above is true that it's alright to ask God why. He knows that we struggle with stuff, but he wants to help us. If it's not true, then I would say keep searching. Don't ever give up on this quest, but ask some other's of their opinion. Good luck!
Romans 10:9
If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
This is the ONLY condition for salvation. Oliver, I think that if the above is true that it's alright to ask God why. He knows that we struggle with stuff, but he wants to help us. If it's not true, then I would say keep searching. Don't ever give up on this quest, but ask some other's of their opinion. Good luck!
"Creator" does not imply "right" to judge.§outh§tar said:
Lets say you created a computer with consciousness. That does not give you the "right" to then do whatever you like with it. I’d say as soon as the entity has reached the level of self awareness then you no longer have any “rights” to do harm to it.
Oops, I missed your post, SouthStar. I agree with what Michael says. Of course, on your behalf, there are levels of self-awareness and we may not have reached true self-awareness, yet. But, I feel that we have reached enough of a level that we should be treated in a commensurate manner. Not as unthinking, unfeeling creatures.
Exactly!
The paradox of the Adam and Eve myth clearly demonstrates that God desired that suffering be present regardless of Adams actions. Adam was for all intents and purposes a puppet in a play with God as the director. Hence now, under the guidance of God, we have suffering. I hear this and that about wanting to teach your children a lesson and so you punish them. However, in Gods case – being the supposed creator of the Universe – he can simply make a universe where Humans are quite content, self aware, and have absolutely no worry about ever suffering (because suffering as a concept can not exist). As that is not the case, we can conclude that God made this Universe with suffering because He wanted it so. If he didn’t want it so, it wouldn’t be so.
As such, I see no reason why the case would be any different in Heaven. If anything it would think it would be MORE suffering.
If you stop and think about it - The Biblical God is really quite evil. So much so we can easily conclude that there isn't one.
The paradox of the Adam and Eve myth clearly demonstrates that God desired that suffering be present regardless of Adams actions. Adam was for all intents and purposes a puppet in a play with God as the director. Hence now, under the guidance of God, we have suffering. I hear this and that about wanting to teach your children a lesson and so you punish them. However, in Gods case – being the supposed creator of the Universe – he can simply make a universe where Humans are quite content, self aware, and have absolutely no worry about ever suffering (because suffering as a concept can not exist). As that is not the case, we can conclude that God made this Universe with suffering because He wanted it so. If he didn’t want it so, it wouldn’t be so.
As such, I see no reason why the case would be any different in Heaven. If anything it would think it would be MORE suffering.
If you stop and think about it - The Biblical God is really quite evil. So much so we can easily conclude that there isn't one.
Though God has. That's why we wouldn't have any rights to harm it, cause when it comes to self-awareness it's God that judge.Michael said:
There is something in the Bible about this, I don't know where though and it's taken from memory, so it isn't letter by letter:
"if I can't trust you with something that has no meaning, then how can I trust you with something that is really meaningful?"
Michael said: