Write4U's wobbly world of word salad woo

[Write4U]

Do you now agree with me that Bohm's pilot waves (described by his "guiding equation") behave very differently from the waves in Schrodinger's description of quantum mechanics?

No, I don't. I believe you are parsing this incorrectly. The "Pilot wave" acts in accordance with Schrodinger, the particle's "guiding equation" pertains to the particle's physical properties, such as speed and position. The total is an augmentation of the Schrodinger Equation .

I agree with the following:

Collapse of the universal wavefunction never occurs in de Broglie–Bohm theory. Its entire evolution is governed by Schrödinger's equation, and the particles' evolutions are governed by the guiding equation. Collapse only occurs in a phenomenological way for systems that seem to follow their own Schrödinger's equation. As this is an effective description of the system, it is a matter of choice as to what to define the experimental system to include, and this will affect when "collapse" occurs.

De Broglie–Bohm theory - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The equation which gives the velocity of a particle is known as the guiding equation which can be used to calculate the trajectory of a particle. This trajectory depends on the particle's starting position and the wavefunction for all times.Mar 3, 2021

Constructing Numerical Methods For Solving The Guiding Equation In Bohmian Mechanics

2.3 Derivation of the guiding equation

Hamiltonian mechanics use the Hamiltonian equations to determine motion classically and with those equations it is possible to determine the time derivative of the position. This equation has a corresponding equation in Bohmian mechanics where it is possible to derive an equation for a particle. This equation is defined differently since the wavefunction is a complex function and the fact that Schrödinger equation is a first order with respect of time. By taking that into account, the corresponded Hamiltonian equation for Bohmian mechanics gets defined somewhat differently.

2.4 Examples of use with the guiding equation (11)

The guiding equation can be used in known solutions to Schrödinger equation for different potentials. In the examples of an infinite wall or box, the result of using the guiding equation with the wavefunction for an eigenvalue of the energy gives a zero velocity of the particle everywhere.

This means that the particle remains at a fixed position. Using several eigenvalue solutions to create a wave packet makes a non-zero velocity when using the guiding equation. This can also be observed in the Hydrogen atom, where the ground state eigenfunction also produces a zero velocity for the electron [8,9]. The fixed position solution of the trajectories is non-classically and is a result of the quantum potential. The quantum potential and the external potential can cancel each other to give the particle a zero velocity [8,9].

2.5 Creating a wave packet

Fixing the position of a particle to an exact position in space in quantum mechanics means that the range of the momentum of the wavefunction is infinitely large. By creating an uncertainty in the position by creating a wider range of possible detection positions will narrow the range of momentum. This can be done by creating a wave packet which travels like a wave with an almost fixed shape. The shape will be stretched when it is traveling.

Inserting particles in the wave packet means that the particles must follow this wave packet. When the wave packet later interacts with its environment in the form of a potential, the potential will affect the wave packet and thus the particles’ trajectories by the guiding equation. The particles trajectories depend on their starting position at a specific time. The velocity at that time is dependent on the wavefunction and the position of the particle in the wavefunction and thus it is not possible to choose the velocity independently of those variables [8,9].

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.diva-portal.org/smash/get/diva2:1533848/FULLTEXT01.pdf

 

[Write4U]

So the "warm wet problem" you refer to is not addressed by this finding about superradiance. It's quite a different subject, closer to a sort of laser action than anything else. What couples the π-systems together in this case is a combined emission of light. This is different from a supposed entanglement of electrons in their ground states.

I don't care what kind of information is being processed or how it is being processed. There is information being processed at quantum levels.

(Though superradiance in microtubules is interesting to me, as it suggests, to me at least, a possible common origin of microtubules and the light-harvesting structures of photosynthesis in modern plants.)

An encouraging sign. How about magnetoreception in many organisms?

Magnetic field effects in biology from the perspective of the radical pair mechanism​

Published:03 August 2022 https://doi.org/10.1098/rsif.2022.0325

However, there is a promising quantum physics (or spin chemistry) concept that can account for the effects of such weak fields, namely the radical pair mechanism [25,26]. This mechanism, which is an example of the emerging field of quantum biology [27–31], has been studied in significant detail in the comparatively narrow context of bird magnetoreception [32–39], where it is accepted as one of the leading potential explanations for how birds sense magnetic fields, and in particular the Earth’s magnetic field, for the purpose of navigation.

Is Navigation a brain function? If so, we arrive at microtubule information processing in birds. It is microtubules that respond and orient to magnetic fields.

It is known that birds and amphibians, and in all likelihood other vertebrates, have not one but two magnetoreception mechanisms, a magnetite-based detector that provides the high sensitivity necessary for sensing weak spatial gradients in the magnetic field [40,41] and a light-dependent magnetic compass that underlies a magnetic map sense [42]. The latter is thought to be based on the radical pair mechanism [43,44].

Birefringence of Single and Bundled Microtubules​

We have measured the birefringence of microtubules (MTs) and of MT-based macromolecular assemblies in vitro and in living cells by using the new Pol-Scope. A single microtubule in aqueous suspension and imaged with a numerical aperture of 1.4 had a peak retardance of 0.07 nm. The peak retardance of a small bundle increased linearly with the number of MTs in the bundle.

Radical pairs may play a role in microtubule reorganization
Published online 2022 Apr 12.

Abstract​

The exact mechanism behind general anesthesia remains an open question in neuroscience. It has been proposed that anesthetics selectively prevent consciousness and memory via acting on microtubules (MTs). It is known that the magnetic field modulates MT organization.

A recent study shows that a radical pair model can explain the isotope effect in xenon-induced anesthesia and predicts magnetic field effects on anesthetic potency. Further, reactive oxygen species are also implicated in MT stability and anesthesia. Based on a simple radical pair mechanism model and a simple mathematical model of MT organization, we show that magnetic fields can modulate spin dynamics of naturally occurring radical pairs in MT. We propose that the spin dynamics influence a rate in the reaction cycle, which translates into a change in the MT density.

We can reproduce magnetic field effects on the MT concentration that have been observed. Our model also predicts additional effects at slightly higher fields. Our model further predicts that the effect of zinc on the MT density exhibits isotopic dependence. The findings of this work make a connection between microtubule-based and radical pair-based quantum theories of consciousness.

Quantum physics has been proposed to be part of the solution for the mystery of consciousness. In particular the holistic character of quantum entanglement might provide an answer to the binding problem14.

In the 1990s, Penrose and Hameroff proposed a theory of consciousness based on quantum computations in MTs15–18. Computational modeling suggested that electron resonance transfer among aromatic amino acid tryptophan (Trp) rings in tubulin (subunits of MTs) in a quantum electronic process could play roles in consciousness19. Craddock et al. showed that anesthetic molecules might bind in the same regions and hence result in loss of consciousness20. In a recent experiment, Zhang et al. observed a connection between electronic states and vibrational states in tubulin and MTs21.

However, quantum electronic coherence beyond ultrafast timescales demands more supporting evidence and has been recently challenged experimentally22. In contrast, quantum spin coherence could be preserved for much longer timescales23. For example, Fisher has proposed that phosphorus nuclear spins could be entangled in networks of Posner molecules, Ca9(PO4)6, which could form the basis of a quantum mechanism for neural processing in the brain24. However, this particular spin-based model also requires more supporting evidence and recently has faced experimental challenges25.

more.... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9005667/

Research in the role of microtubule networks as a substrate for consciousness is active and advancing.

 

[exchemist]

I don't care what kind of information is being processed or how it is being processed. There is information being processed at quantum levels.

..............[snip]..............................

No information is being processed by the superradiance of these tryptophan arrays. It's just fluorescence.

 

[Write4U]

No information is being processed by the superradiance of these tryptophan arrays. It's just fluorescence.

Electron transfer is not information?

I'll keep this short. I am way out on a limb here.

Electron transfer​

Electron transfer (ET) occurs when an electron relocates from an atom or molecule to another such chemical entity. ET is a mechanistic description of certain kinds of redox reactions involving transfer of electrons.[2]

ORCH OR?
Example of a reduction–oxidation reaction between sodium and chlorine, with the OIL RIG mnemonic[1]

Electrochemical processes are ET reactions. ET reactions are relevant to photosynthesis and respiration and commonly involve transition metal complexes.[3][4] In organic chemistry ET is a step in some commercial polymerization reactions. It is foundational to photoredox catalysis.

Electron transfer - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Photoredox catalysis can be defined as the methodology where light is used to alter the redox properties of compounds then accelerating chemical reactions by electron transfer between a photocatalyst and a substrate (124).

13 reasons why the brain is susceptible to oxidative stress​

The brain deliberately produces reactive species to transmit redox signals. Redox signalling regulates critical functions (e.g. synaptic plasticity). The brain is susceptible to oxidative stress when redox signalling goes awry.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213231718300041#

Anything in here that is associated with information processing in the brain and potentially may be causal to emergent consciousness?

 

[exchemist]

Electron transfer is not information?

There is no electron transfer.

 

[Write4U]

There is no electron transfer.

There is no redox?

Oxidation-Reduction Reactions

An oxidation-reduction (redox) reaction is a type of chemical reaction that involves a transfer of electrons between two species. An oxidation-reduction reaction is any chemical reaction in which the oxidation number of a molecule, atom, or ion changes by gaining or losing an electron. Aug 29, 2023

Oxidation-Reduction Reactions

An oxidation-reduction (redox) reaction is a type of chemical reaction that involves a transfer of electrons between two species. An oxidation-reduction reaction is any chemical reaction in which the …

chem.libretexts.org

 

[exchemist]

There is no redox?

Oxidation-Reduction Reactions

No. For the umpteenth time, it's fluorescence. Look up fluorescence, can't you, instead of all this irrelevant shit?

 

[Write4U]

Then what am I quoting? I don't care what it is, it does have something to do with redox.

These people are talking about information traffic at quantum levels in cells and in the brain.

 

[exchemist]

Then what am I quoting? I don't care what it is, it does have something to do with redox.

These people are talking about information traffic at quantum levels in cells and in the brain.

 

[Write4U]

Well, that's enlightening...? Brood parasite...? Ok, false information yielding the desired result.


The brain does that also.... a false internal communication as a survival mechanism... nature uses physics to naturally select for survival skills.

 

[Write4U]

In reference to: https://sciforums.com/threads/the-two-slit-experiment.165864/page-2

Exchemist said: For those who prefer words rather than wading through videos, what is needed is a process that generates a pair of photons from a single quantum emission event. This can be done with certain "non-linear" materials, in which excitation by a single input photon results in emission of a pair of photons rather than just one as normally expected. More here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_parametric_down-conversion.

I wonder if the following has any relation to the above quote about "entanglement?
Just trying to make good on my promise to post "current" science.

On a Class of Nonlinear Waves in Microtubules

In a microtubule, the subunits are organized such that they all face the same direction to form 13 parallel protofilaments. As a consequence of this, the microtubule is polar. It has -tubulin exposed at one end and -tubulin at the other. The positively charged end of the microtubule grows relatively fast. The negatively charged end grows relatively slowly.

Each protofilament is arranged in a parallel orientation with respect to the other. The orientation is such that the positive end always has subunits exposed. The negative end has subunits exposed. Microtubules have several important functions, as mentioned above. An additional function is the formation of an internal transport network for moving materials throughout the cell and between the exterior and interior of the cell.

Because of all the above, microtubules are widely studied. And numerous of these studies are devoted to the propagation of solitary nonlinear waves in microtubules [7,8,9,10,11].

On a Class of Nonlinear Waves in Microtubules

Microtubules are the basic components of the eukaryotic cytoskeleton. We discuss a class of nonlinear waves traveling in microtubules. The waves are obtained on the basis of a kind of z-model. The model used is extended to account for (i) the possibility for nonlinear interaction between...

www.mdpi.com

 

[Write4U]

And just a follow up.

A Concept Embracing Philosophy, Quantitative Molecular Biology & Mathematics​

Biology and culture, consciousness and the world, subject and object, inner and outer have continuity and find, in the "creative transcendence” of consciousness and its experiences, a privileged degree of understanding. The aims of this paper are:

(1) to stress the validity of the phenomenological approach to consciousness and the subsequent interpretation of memory, expression of the “ego” as a continuous narrative of “self”;

(2) to show that a molecular structure, such as tubulin, can effectively modulate the state of consciousness through the changes that occur within it;

(3) to formulate a plausible hypothesis about the existence of different levels of consciousness in animals;

(4) to introduce a hypothesis concerning the involvement of membrane viscosity and serotonin as regulatory agents in different levels of consciousness such as mood disorders and hallucinations.

Quantum Human & Animal Consciousness: A Concept Embracing Philosophy, Quantitative Molecular Biology & Mathematics

Biology and culture, consciousness and the world, subject and object, inner and outer have continuity and find, in the "creative transcendence” of consciousness and its experiences, a privileged degree of understanding. The aims of this paper

www.academia.edu

 

[Write4U]

Using a turn of phrase on Bohman Mechanics.

Physics is the study of the Explicate Order, Mathematis is the study of the Implicate Order.

 

[Pinball1970]

Using a turn of phrase on Bohman Mechanics.

Physics is the study of the Explicate Order, Mathematis is the study of the Implicate Order.

Yes but that is not what Mathematics actually is. Mathematics is used in physics and other sciences but it does not have to be.
Some mathematics may not relate to anything physical at all in the universe.
It just is.

 

[Write4U]

Yes but that is not what Mathematics actually is. Mathematics is used in physics and other sciences but it does not have to be.
Some mathematics may not relate to anything physical at all in the universe.
It just is.

I agree.
I believe that natural mathematics are functionally much simpler than our advanced theoretical models, but if there is a mathematical implicate order to all of it, then following the law of progressive complexity in a dynamic environment, the mathematics become progressively more complex over time, until they become expressed as physically phenomena, i.e. the physical explicate order, i.e. the observable Universe.

From the Wolfram website:

Fundamental Theory of Physics and It’s Beautiful
April 14, 2020

And this got me thinking: Could the universe work this way? Could it in fact be that underneath all of this richness and complexity we see in physics there are just simple rules? I soon realized that if that was going to be the case, we’d in effect have to go underneath space and time and basically everything we know. Our rules would have to operate at some lower level, and all of physics would just have to emerge.

At the lowest level, the rules we’ve got are about as minimal as anything could be. (Amusingly, their basic structure can be expressed in a fraction of a line of symbolic Wolfram Language code.) And in their raw form, they don’t really engage with all the rich ideas and structure that exist, for example, in mathematics. But as soon as we start looking at the consequences of the rules when they’re applied zillions of times, it becomes clear that they’re very elegantly connected to a lot of wonderful recent mathematics.

more... https://writings.stephenwolfram.com...damental-theory-of-physics-and-its-beautiful/

Regardless what we name it, the universe is a very complex object that apparently started as a simple singularity, but expanded in a chaotic way from which ordered physics emerged over time.

 

[Pinball1970]

believe that natural mathematics are functionally much simpler than our advanced theoretical models

It's all natural and so are all our models.

but if there is a mathematical implicate order to all of it,

All of what? I have just said that mathematics does not exist to describe the universe, some of it does not, it just is.

then following the law of progressive complexity in a dynamic environment

Which law?

the mathematics become progressively more complex over time, until they become expressed as physically phenomena

No, the mathematics exist completely independently as I have said. They are absolutely nothing to do with the universe.

started as a simple singularity, but expanded in a chaotic way from which ordered physics emerged over time

Not necessarily. Anyway this is zero to do with mathematics.

 

[Pinball1970]

until they become expressed as physically phenomena,

Where? Where is π in the universe? Where is x? Something simpler find me a square? Or a circle.
You will not find one.

 

[Write4U]

No, the mathematics exist completely independently as I have said. They are absolutely nothing to do with the universe.

Why not? I am not talking about human SYMBOLIC maths. Why should there not be a natural mathematical aspect to the universe?

Someone has yet to explain why mathematics is strictly a human "invention" instead of "discovery", in the face of abundant evidence of mathematical functions and patterns all around us and throughout the universe.
That is like saying "The universe itself does not exist without human description", which is ridiculous.

My belief that mathematics is not just a human invention for human application is the fact that often human mathematics used to describe a specific function or pattern later proves to apply to a totally unrelated set of physics. IOW this relationship existed prior to human "discovery" or codification.

This is why the simple Fibonacci Sequence is so powerful. It applies to a host of unrelated natural phenomena, mainly because it is the
"most efficient" for conservation of energy.

It seems that I am not the only one who maintains this perspective.

Fibonacci Sequence in relationship with Norther’s Theorem as a Natural Proof of the Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy
By: Maryellen Elizabeth Hart
May 2021

Dear Professors:
Thank you for your feedback regarding my hypothesis that the naturally occurring Fibonacci's Sequence when supported by Emmy Noether's Theorem is natural "proof" of the Laws of Conservation of Matter and Energy. With consideration of Emmy Noether's theorem my premise is that Fibonacci's Sequence is natural evidence of the conservation of energy and the adhesion of molecules (up to absolute zero), that is associated with the geometries of triangles, spirals, arcs, and circles as proven with those geometries in Simple Machines.

"Noether's first theorem states that every differentiable symmetry of the action of a physical system with conservative forces has a corresponding conservation law.[1"] (Wikipedia, 2021) I believe that the natural world is created (built upon "differentiable symmetries" a.k.a. sequential, geometric relationships and expansions of triangulation. As you know, the geometry of all naturally occuring shapes are based on triangles. Triangles combine to form arches, spirals, circles, squares, polygons, etc.. These basic geometries are the strongest architectural shapes in nature.

Hence, they are geometric proof of the conservation of energy and matter in their basic and expanded forms.

Fibonacci Sequence in relationship with Noether’s Theorem as a Natural Proof of the Law of Conservation of Matter and Energy

Thoughts for the day. I will get back with you.

www.linkedin.com

Noether's theorem - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Pinball1970]

Why not?

Because there is zero evidence that the universe is anything to do with mathematics. Like I said find me a square in the universe then find me a cube. There aren't any, they don't exist.

Some of our mathematics makes sense of the universe, the same way statistical analysis of population growth of bacteria can be made sense of.
Bacteria are not an exponential curve, they are not a stationary point, there is no plot on a curve, they are bacteria, they are the universe not mathematics.

 

[Pinball1970]

Someone has yet to explain why mathematics is strictly a human "invention"

Because that is what some mathematicians think, the people who actually know what they are talking about.