Zionist piracy

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GeoffP said:
Seriously, councillor, grow some perspective or some honesty.
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Coming from you, sir, that is amusing as hell.

Now, show the links where you claim I have said that it was malnourished Palestinian children on those ships who 'attacked the soldiers'. Show the links where you claim I have said the following:

GeoffP said:
But there seems to be a tiny discrepancy between the way you describe the fight first - "how could itty bitty malnourished Palestinian children hit people with bars made of soft, gentle iron?" - and how you describe it immediately after - "what would you do, cowardly Geoff, if Israeli hasbara commandos infected with rabies and spraying rotary cannons from each hand descended on your ship and started attacking you for no reason, after you tried to gently reason with them using soft iron bars and breakaway deck chairs"? Like Tiassa sometimes says: genuine is genuine. I've reposted my link so there can be no avoidance of what happened during the rappel in.
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Links? Anything? Or are you lying and being dishonest again?
 
nirakar said:
Israel does not accept them as citizens.Most Israelis don't want them as citizens. The Palestinian Authority pretends to be like a sovereign government and would claim them as citizens. I don't think the Palestinians want to be Israeli citizens.

But only one nation Israel exists. People born in Israel are Israeli citizens as far as I am concerned and I don't care what judges say or what the people want; I only care what the reality is. The Israeli government is in charge of Palestine and therefore anybody born their and living their is an Israeli citizen regardless of whether they want to be a citizen or whether the government wants them as citizens.

Granted my definition of citizen is different and more inclusive than other definitions of citizens. To not grant citizenship to people born in your nation should be illegal. There are neo-nazi white supremacists in Idaho who might like to not be citizens of the USA but the USA is the nation that rules them therefore as far as I am concerned they are US citizens whether they want to be or not and for the same reason Palestinians in Gaza are Israeli citizens whether they or anybody else wants them to be or not.

Israel's interception of the aid ships shows that Israel is in fact the government of Palestine.

Occupied territories are are part of the occupying nation. Nations should not take land by force but they have. It is 40 + years now that Israel has controlled Gaza. This is not temporary like the US occupation of Japan.

I think that if we call Palestinians Israeli citizens it makes the situation more clear and less easy pretend that the situation is something other than what it is. If a two state solution happens then Palestinians would no longer be rightless Israeli citizens. There will not be a two state solution in my lifetime. Why let Israel pretend that it gives equal rights to all of it's people?
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Israel is not a nation it is a state
 
Norsefire said:
Israel has crossed the line with this one, I think.
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Who's line? What changes? Maybe Israel loses some support with some international people. The USA's government can make sure that those people's governments don't do anything significant to pressure Israel.
 
baftan said:
What is the difference? Or, can you be a nation without a state, is there any example?
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A nation is a group of people. ie the jewish people= the jewish nation.
the palestinian for example are a nation but they do not have a state as they were denied their right to self determination.




A state is a political entity. it may be the dominion of more than one nation or just one.
 
pjdude1219 said:
Israel is not a nation it is a state
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OK; what's the difference; that state controls whether or not Palestinians can have cement and build homes in Gaza therefore that is the state that governs Gaza therefore that is the state that Gazans are a part of.
 
pjdude1219 said:
A nation is a group of people. ie the jewish people= the jewish nation.
the palestinian for example are a nation but they do not have a state as they were denied their right to self determination.




A state is a political entity. it may be the dominion of more than one nation or just one.
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So then the USA is also not a nation?
 
pjdude1219 said:
A nation is a group of people. ie the jewish people= the jewish nation.


A state is a political entity. it may be the dominion of more than one nation or just one.
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That's exactly what I am asking, can we talk about a nation without a political entity (is there any "natural" nation -an example)? Or is there a state which is not defined by a "nation" (a state which does not define its citizens as "nation")?

Have you ever heard the concept "nation state"?
 
nirakar said:
OK; what's the difference; that state controls whether or not Palestinians can have cement and build homes in Gaza therefore that is the state that governs Gaza therefore that is the state that Gazans are a part of.
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So if I go to france does that make me french no. Use some common sense and understand the law. just because Israel(the jewish people) control gaza and the rest of palestine doesn't mean those under the occupying power are part of that state.
 
baftan said:
You unnecessarily politicized my technical answers, so you are responsible from this, don't complain.
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Nonsense, your technical answers are made of straw. The fact that there is universal, clear and increasing outrage at Israel for this travesty, is a fact. Are you denying that Israel is at fault?
 
pjdude1219 said:
So if I go to france does that make me french no. Use some common sense and understand the law. just because Israel(the jewish people) control gaza and the rest of palestine doesn't mean those under the occupying power are part of that state.
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If you go to France, it might make you -depending on the status- a refugee, a tourist, a foreign worker, a diplomat. If you obtain French nationality, you become a French citizen.

By the way, you can not understand "law" by using "common sense", you need more than that.
 
baftan said:
If you go to France, it might make you -depending on the status- a refugee, a tourist, a foreign worker, a diplomat. If you obtain French nationality, you become a French citizen.

By the way, you can not understand "law" by using "common sense", you need more than that.
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And not to
 
pjdude1219 said:
So if I go to france does that make me french no. Use some common sense and understand the law. just because Israel(the jewish people) control gaza and the rest of palestine doesn't mean those under the occupying power are part of that state.
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If you live in France are born in France and your parents were born in France I think you are French. Some racist French may say that because your grandparents came from Algeria you are not French but I think that ethnic way of thinking leads to trouble and that way of thinking should be discouraged.
 
nirakar said:
If you live in France are born in France and your parents were born in France I think you are French. Some racist French may say that because your grandparents came from Algeria you are not French but I think that ethnic way of thinking leads to trouble and that way of thinking should be discouraged.
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It makes you civically French, not ethnically French. And ethnicity matters when dealing with claims to land.
 
If the laws don't adhere to common sense and justice then the laws should not be given respect and should not be cited in reference to justice, morality or common sense. The existence of stupid laws should not cloud our ability to know right from wrong.
 
nirakar said:
If the laws don't adhere to common sense and justice then the laws should not be given respect and should not be cited in reference to justice, morality or common sense. The existence of stupid laws should not cloud our ability to know right from wrong.
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What does that have to do with what I said? I'll assume you weren't responding to me.
 
StrawDog said:
Nonsense, your technical answers are made of straw.
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Specify, which one?

The fact that there is universal, clear and increasing outrage at Israel
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I have never heard any outrage from China, or South Korea, or from Panama, or from Moldova. Is your understanding of universality restricted?

for this travesty, is a fact. Are you denying that Israel is at fault?
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If I accept Israel as a fault, I must accept many other countries as faults on the similar bases -discrimination, terror on certain group of people. I accept Israel and other faulty situations as natural result of nation-state, religion, and ideology based divisions among people of this planet.
I don't impose any special or extra fault to Israel. How can I do that? They didn't come from outer space; this planet and its last couple of century created the Israel.
 
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I blame the Europeans for 90% of the world's problems. Their imperialist policies during the nineteenth and twentieth centuries have truly had a lasting, incredibly horrible effect on the world's development, and they continue to be an example of what not to be (socialists).
 
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