Zionist piracy

[James R]

Spock:

A link to an article is not a proof. Every newspaper can write what they want.

Why the hell are you discussing this topic on an internet forum at all?

You're obviously not interested in having any honest kind of discussion if you insist on setting the standard of proof so high that nobody can be reasonably expected to meet it.

Is this self-delusion on your part, or shutting your eyes to anything that might upset your preconceptions, or what?

How can you expect people to respect you when you show no capacity for rational analysis or argument?

Are you an employed mouthpiece for Israel, or just a self-appointed apologist?


Cheski:

So why is it you pretend to be principled and objective on the matter? [snip]

You seem to be under the impression that I'll respond to you before you've read my previous post. Not sure why.

BTW: perhaps you really do require help with basic forum searches. If so, try clicking on my name. That will take you to my profile. From there, so to "Statistics" and try "find all posts by James R".

I haven't made many posts between yesterday and today - far fewer than are in the current thread - so that should simplify your search.

 

[StrawDog]

But for an Israeli to advocate the destruction of the Palestinian people is immensely sad. Probably this person has no connection to the Jewish Holocaust. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. I am sure that holocaust survivors must despair at young idiots like this one.

I could not agree more friend. What we used to have was a wonderful dignity. I am utterly saddened by these comments that perpetuate the injustice. :m:

 

[CheskiChips]

Spock:



Why the hell are you discussing this topic on an internet forum at all?

You're obviously not interested in having any honest kind of discussion if you insist on setting the standard of proof so high that nobody can be reasonably expected to meet it.

Is this self-delusion on your part, or shutting your eyes to anything that might upset your preconceptions, or what?

How can you expect people to respect you when you show no capacity for rational analysis or argument?

Are you an employed mouthpiece for Israel, or just a self-appointed apologist?


Cheski:



You seem to be under the impression that I'll respond to you before you've read my previous post. Not sure why.

BTW: perhaps you really do require help with basic forum searches. If so, try clicking on my name. That will take you to my profile. From there, so to "Statistics" and try "find all posts by James R".

I haven't made many posts between yesterday and today - far fewer than are in the current thread - so that should simplify your search.

It doesn't matter whether Israel is a signatory to the Law of the Sea Convention or not. Treaties are only one way that international law is made. The other way, equally important, is customary international norms that acquire the full force of international law over time due to the virtually universal adherence to those norms of many nations. The Law of the Sea certainly qualifies as a set of customary international norms.

Neither Israel nor any other nation can worm its way out of flouting the accepted law of the sea using the excuse that it hasn't signed a treaty.

It doesn't matter. As I said...an international law needs a few things, importantly is an 'enforcer'. Who will enforce it? If no one will, then it's merely a suggestion not a law.

 

[James R]

As I said...an international law needs a few things, importantly is an 'enforcer'. Who will enforce it? If no one will, then it's merely a suggestion not a law.

All completely wrong, as I pointed out yesterday.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Hey wait, isn't a blockade by its nature illegal?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

A very valid appraisal. As I have been saying all along, the tide has long since turned from "default" sympathy for Israel and the Jewish cause, the WW2 generation has passed away, and Israel is steadily being exposed for the dangerous rabid dog that it was and is. Misguided and self inflicted.

And as I have been saying all along, the tide is unstoppable, and the only way for Israel to survive long term is a major shift in policy that will allow justice and Statehood for the Palestinian people, and that will necessarily include major land restitution. The key word is "compromise" and I hope the regime, along with its blind unconditional supporters, comes to its senses sooner rather than later.

As the fallout from this disgusting incident indicates, Israel was and is the major security risk in the ME if not the world today.

What 'jewish cause'? Israel is a state not a 'jewish cause'. When you call Israel a 'rabid dog', what do you call the violent Palestinian resistance that amounts to Hamas rocket launches and packing bombs around their citizens?

You know its not that I don't agree that Israeli government behaves in a way that is not in their best interest, its that I also believe that Palestinians led by Hamas don't behave in a way that's in their best interest.

If Israel is a security risk then so are the Palestinians (something that the Lebanese seem to think regarding their Palestinian refugees)

Have some perspective. I know you think that the world begins and ends in the ME but trust me that the rest of the world is not sitting around wringing its hands over the the slither of land and its people; to note this incident didn't even make front page news in both The Bangkok Post and The Phnom Penh Post.

You should hope, if you have any care for the Palestinian people at all that Israel doesn't implode. You should hope that there is more than simple retribution and acrimony on both sides. You should hope for the survival of Israel because if it doesn't survive there will be no Palestinian people to speak of. I say this because the only way Israel will fall is from an outside attack, you should hope no attack ever takes place as it would lead to total war and no other surrounding nation will survive it. The survival of both parties are intertwined so all the black and white characterizations of one side being all good and the other being all bad isn't going to help.

I agree with James. I think most of you out there who call for the fall of Israel are actually hoping for war. All of you out there hoping for the annihilation of Palestinians are actually hoping for war. All of you who represent one of those sides are part of the problem, your the cheerleaders.

 

[S.A.M.]

I say this because the only way Israel will fall is from an outside attack

I disagree. I think the rot will be from within, its already visible. Israel will destroy itself.

 

[CheskiChips]

All completely wrong, as I pointed out yesterday.

If that's your definition of law, but let's follow the definition by Princeton.

(the collection of rules imposed by authority) "civilization presupposes respect for the law"; "the great problem for jurisprudence to allow freedom while enforcing order"

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=law

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

I disagree. I think the rot will be from within, its already visible. Israel will destroy itself.

No Sam YOU are hoping it will rot from within, its a desire on your part not an objective analysis. N. Korea is 'rotting from within' and yet it still stands. Israel as it stands is thriving.

 

[S.A.M.]

No Sam YOU are hoping it will rot from within, its a desire on your part not an objective analysis. N. Korea is 'rotting from within' and yet it still stands. Israel as it stands is thriving.

Israel is like the US, outside factors are not as relevant as internal decay. Just look at Obama - his balls are so blue he cannot even bring himself to condemn the killings. No place disappears, it just moves on. Israel has reached and passed a crisis point. There is no longer any rationale for its survival. Why do you think Israelis are so afraid? They know it better than anyone else.

 

[Black Jack]

Hey wait, isn't a blockade by its nature illegal?

Nope, they wrote laws for it back in 1856, in 1909 they tried to further the rights of neutral traders, and in 1945 the UN Council took over determining the legal status of blockades. The means by which the blockade is enforce has a big thing to do with it, and sending boarding parties onto other ships isn't illegal especially when it's common practice even when there isn't a blockade up (in order to search a vessel for contraband, weapons, drugs, etc etc).

This blockade prior to this incident was under no scrutiny for it's legality and probably won't afterward either. The only thing in question is the judgment used by the Israeli military.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Israel is like the US, outside factors are not as relevant as internal decay. Just look at Obama - his balls are so blue he cannot even bring himself to condemn the killings. No place disappears, it just moves on. Israel has reached and passed a crisis point. There is no longer any rationale for its survival. Why do you think Israelis are so afraid? They know it better than anyone else.

Again it is you who thinks there is internal decay. What are the signs of internal decay Sam? Why isn't the massive poverty in India for example not a sign of internal decay? By what standards are you measuring 'decay'? By all objective signs the US is still a powerful first world nation and so is Israel. Whether Obama condemns the killings is not the issue here. Israel doesn't need a rationale for survival. Don't you get that? No one, no nation, no people need a 'rationale' for survival, survival is a condition and as I noted Israel is thriving not surviving. Israeli's are afraid of their neighbors, Israeli's are afraid of its enemies who threaten them with violence of people who say 'there is no rationale for its survival'. Its that attitude that manifests itself in the blockade in Gaza, and their attempt to freeze Hamas in its tracks, its attitudes like that which perpetuates the violence and it isn't helping the palestinian people one bit. Palestinians are the ones who have to worry about survival, they are the ones without a state and without proper leadership, they may have global sympathy on their side but this sympathy hasn't translated into power.

As a side note its statements like 'there is no longer any rationale for its survival' that will keep the West one step away from condemning Israel. After all there ARE people out there who are hoping for its demise and you are an example of one of those people.

 

[StrawDog]

What 'jewish cause'? Israel is a state not a 'jewish cause'.

Ever progrom, every slaughter of Jews, WW2, and the fallout from the Holocaust is the gristle that makes up the foundation of the Jewish cause which evolved into Zionism and finally Israel.

When you call Israel a 'rabid dog', what do you call the violent Palestinian resistance that amounts to Hamas rocket launches and packing bombs around their citizens?

I call that an oppressed people who 60 years and counting without justice, are using catapults against a viscous and unpredictable oppressor.

You know its not that I don't agree that Israeli government behaves in a way that is not in their best interest, its that I also believe that Palestinians led by Hamas don't behave in a way that's in their best interest.

My position on Palestinian unity and suggested MO is pasted all over these forums.

If Israel is a security risk then so are the Palestinians (something that the Lebanese seem to think regarding their Palestinian refugees)

Of course, that is the symptom. What is the cause?

Have some perspective. I know you think that the world begins and ends in the ME but trust me that the rest of the world is not sitting around wringing its hands over the the slither of land and its people; to note this incident didn't even make front page news in both The Bangkok Post and The Phnom Penh Post

.
He he. I am not sure what news may be available in the Bangkok Post, nor why I would be interested? Where I am at, it certainly made headline news, as well as featuring prominently on all major news sites.

You should hope, if you have any care for the Palestinian people at all that Israel doesn't implode.

Sadly, I hope this probably more for the Jewish people. Israel is all they have, and the way its going, its eating itself up. Where to then my people? Bangkok?

You should hope that there is more than simple retribution and acrimony on both sides. You should hope for the survival of Israel because if it doesn't survive there will be no Palestinian people to speak of. I say this because the only way Israel will fall is from an outside attack, you should hope no attack ever takes place as it would lead to total war and no other surrounding nation will survive it. The survival of both parties are intertwined so all the black and white characterizations of one side being all good and the other being all bad isn't going to help.

The intertwinement of the region and its people is not an excuse for viscous, and arguably illegal behaviour as we have seen. Time will reveal how this happened and who is accountable.

I agree with James. I think most of you out there who call for the fall of Israel are actually hoping for war. All of you out there hoping for the annihilation of Palestinians are actually hoping for war. All of you who represent one of those sides are part of the problem, your the cheerleaders.

You have voiced this sentiment before, and I am still in the dark as to its meaning. Who is calling for the fall of Israel? :m:

 

[S.A.M.]

Again it is you who thinks there is internal decay. What are the signs of internal decay Sam?

Read the eight steps to genocide, you'll get a clue.

Poverty can be combated, illiteracy can be overcome, dictators can be overthrown. But a country of people bred to hatred? There is no recourse there. Listen to the pro-Israel supporters, the Israeli public. They see nothing unconscionable in attacking innocents, no shame in oppression, no remorse. Thats decay. They are on the path of self destruction. Jews who come from a religion governed by law ask you what is a law without an enforcer? They adore the golden calf and ignore the consequences.

By what standards are you measuring 'decay'?

History, of course. Is there any other?

 

[CptBork]

Maybe now's a good time to mention that I've been openly calling for UN peacekeepers in Gaza since I first joined this place? Who here thinks both sides wouldn't be 100X better off right now? There would be no blockade, no Cast Lead... well last time I floated the idea, SAM didn't like it because it deprives the Arabs of their natural right to kick Israel's teeth in like they've done to so many other peoples throughout history.

 

[S.A.M.]

If you remember Israel bombed the UN peacekeepers in Lebanon. I don't know why you persist in the illusion that Israelis give a damn about international law. Have they signed up for any of them?

 

[James R]

Cheski:

If that's your definition of law, but let's follow the definition by Princeton.

You mean you'll take the word of a generic dictionary over the definition used by international lawyers.

You and Spock sure are good at shifting the goal posts any time you're in an uncomfortable position. Is that a particular Israeli trait, or just a personal one?

 

[S.A.M.]

Cheski is American.

 

[James R]

Ah, another sidelines cheerleader like Norsefire.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

@Strawdog

Notice you said 'finally Israel'. It is finally Israel we are dealing with here not WW2 pogroms or the holocaust. Do you look at the United States and see its foreign policy as a manifestation of the 'puritan cause'? I didn't think so.

So you see suicide bombing and rocket launches as being justified. Well welcome to the explanation used by Israeli's. Both sides are dying because of such justification its just that the odds are against Hamas. Hamas is the worst thing to have happened to the Palestinian cause, all those who try and wage war against Israel are not helping the Palestinian people, they give Israel every bit of ammunition and justification they need to distrust and lash out against innocent people. Like I said you are simply a cheerleader.

What is the cause? I think the better question is what is the cure. All the rants and rambling about who came first, who owns what, what people are a people, ones truth being another's myth etc hasn't gotten anyone anywhere close to a cure. It only leads to the circle of rage, acrimony and violence.

What I was trying to indicate is that you seem to think that Israel and Palestine is on the global mind and its not, in Asia specifically the ME is a million miles away in terms of interest. Trust me, I have been to three countries in the past month alone.

What difference does it make who is accountable? How many people really believe that the man inside the bulldozer wasn't aware that Rachel Corrie was in its path? This is just another example of how unforgiving the Israeli's are when it comes to the situation in Gaza. Having said that in another month or two people will be discussing some other horrible situation concerning Israel. Where is all the chatter for example of Israel's assassination in Dubai and the use of legitimate passports? After all the governments stated their disapproval they moved on business as usual with no consequences meted out towards Israel.

Who is calling for the fall of Israel? Its in the air. Haven't you noticed? When you refer to Israel as being the evil empire what do you hope for said nation? Especially if you don't think there needs to be any compromise on the side of Hamas.