Radical Islam : What is the fundamental motivation?

CEngelbrecht said:
I'm tired of this. Islam's got nothing to do with what Muslims do on an everyday basis, 'cause Christianity's got nothing to do with what Christians do on an everyday basis. Or any other reassuring fable, for that matter. All religion is is people's bull excuses for doing, what they would've done anyway.

These two Kouachi boys didn't get laid. That's what it was about. ....
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Rationalizing things people wanted to do anyway is actually a major problem with religion. It provides justification and suppresses doubt.

Another thing religions do is regulate sexual behavior. If a single Muslim man isn't getting laid, it's because they aren't married yet. If they truly did whatever they wanted, they would get laid out of wedlock, but there is little religious support for that.
 
Randwolf said:
Amazing how quickly a normally soft spoken and semi-rational religionist can be provoked simply by pointing out that their particular faith is also capable of radicalization. Instant outrage followed by denial...
......
And so forth and so on. "Nonsense!" the Christians exclaim. "That's entirely different. No sane person could hold Christianity responsible, these people are obviously disturbed nut cases."

Move along, nothing to see here...
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Another woodworm comes out. Why are you talking about Christianity in a thread titled "Radical Islam...."? You are not the only one, but your copy and paste crap and pompous attitude is A typical of either an angry teenager or a mad old granny.

You added zip to the thread, just insults.

Ignorance really is bliss.
 
spidergoat said:
Rationalizing things people wanted to do anyway is actually a major problem with religion. It provides justification and suppresses doubt.

Another thing religions do is regulate sexual behavior. If a single Muslim man isn't getting laid, it's because they aren't married yet. If they truly did whatever they wanted, they would get laid out of wedlock, but there is little religious support for that.
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You ever actually been to the Middle East? It's polygynic countries, most of 'em. Which is a huge mathematical problem for a society, 'cause humans are born 50/50 boys and girls. Which means, that in a polygynic society, where the few Alphas hawk all the virgins to themselves (which lives most up to the needs of the women innit?, 'cause girls basically want the exact same male, which is why so many married men of a certain income in the monogamic West sleep around with younger models), there's a huge shortage of available mates for a large proportion of the fertile males. In countries where people aren't even allowed to go homo. Even in the countries, where law and tradition states a man can't have more than three wives (more than three women around in the house is usually when a man goes nuts anyway), you still have potentially two out of every three adult male without a statistical chance of gettin' some. And you see that desperation in the Muslim boys in Jerusalem, who hasn't got enough status to be sure of a girl. That governs everything else they do. That's the pool ISIL recruits from, the scores running around with dry penii. Talk about a perpetual powder keg. Suck on that, Joseph Smith.

And that cultural paradox has migrated to Europe along with the immigrants, creating the tensions, where the desperate boys start blaming random people for their personal problems. That's the power of V, boyz and girlz. Again, nothing to do with Islam per se (it's all Jews, for crying out loud, there're 3½ billion Jews in the world!), but it's gotten to a head (hm!) in the Muslim world, so Islam is just the widely used crappy excuse these days. Because it's mathematically impossible for all to get the good life in this grossly over populated world, where we're running around like too many hamsters in too small a cage, and then people start digging up the nonsense.
 
I agree that sexual frustration is probably a factor in the discontent of young Muslim men, driven by economics and religious custom, but it would be too simplistic to think it's the only factor.
 
spidergoat said:
I agree that sexual frustration is probably a factor in the discontent of young Muslim men, driven by economics and religious custom, but it would be too simplistic to think it's the only factor.
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Fair enough. But I will posit, that it drives most of those nutballs grabbing a gun, and that that applies way beyond radical Muslims. I'd say it's universal.

McVeigh_mugshot.jpg


Classmates recall a shy, skinny youth who did not socialise much. There seems to have been only one girlfriend during his high school years. Later, during 75 hours of interviews, he would tell journalists Lou Michael and Dan Herbeck - authors of American Terrorist: Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City Bombing - that he always said the wrong thing to women he was trying to impress.
- Profile: Timothy McVeigh, BBC News, 2001
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All else is just dumb excuses. That doesn't have to make sense.
 
spidergoat said:
I agree that sexual frustration is probably a factor in the discontent of young Muslim men, driven by economics and religious custom, but it would be too simplistic to think it's the only factor.
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I agree.

I would like to know how they get the money for the weapons and cost of living generally. You don't get much money for being a terrorist last time I checked, so someone is writing them blank cheques... unless someone here can explain where these nut jobs get their money and guns from?
 
davewhite04 said:
I would like to know how they get the money for the weapons and cost of living generally. You don't get much money for being a terrorist last time I checked, so someone is writing them blank cheques... unless someone here can explain where these nut jobs get their money and guns from?
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Iraq’s Premier al-Maliki say Saudi Arabia, actually. Which might be as simple as the Saud patriarchs giving the horny losers from their country something that'll kill off as many of them as possible, so they don't run around trying to topple the Saudi rule in the fight for the fertile females. I'm sure the Saud still remember this little incident. But question is, if and when it'll backfire on them, is what I'm concerned about.
 
davewhite04 said:
I agree.

I would like to know how they get the money for the weapons and cost of living generally. You don't get much money for being a terrorist last time I checked, so someone is writing them blank cheques... unless someone here can explain where these nut jobs get their money and guns from?
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There is no shortage of funding for terrorism.
 
CEngelbrecht said:
Iraq’s Premier al-Maliki say Saudi Arabia, actually. Which might be as simple as the Saud patriarchs giving the horny losers from their country something that'll kill off as many of them as possible, so they don't run around trying to topple the Saudi rule in the fight for the fertile females. I'm sure the Saud still remember this little incident. But question is, if and when it'll backfire on them, is what I'm concerned about.
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Interesting.

So is the answer to the thread question: cash, loads of virgins, get to kill people anyway they want and sickeningly enough, they seem to get joy from it(they even do rap music to celebrate).
 
CEngelbrecht said:
Fair enough. But I will posit, that it drives most of those nutballs grabbing a gun, and that that applies way beyond radical Muslims. I'd say it's universal.




All else is just dumb excuses. That doesn't have to make sense.
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Big deal, I didn't have a girlfriend in High School either.
 
Yazata said:
The result might not be antisocial in societies shaped by those same theocratic inputs, when judged in terms of the values that those inputs represent. It might all be entirely self-justifying. (It wouldn't be a society where I'd want to live, but that's another subject.) What I'm suggesting is that the Islamists might indeed be able to create a society that's good by Islamist lights.
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Good point. It's like racism anywhere: it was great to be white, male, heterosexual and Protestant in North America and Britain for quite some time, but if you weren't all of those things, it was less pleasant and sometimes quite lethal. Similarly in the Islamic world now, and more generally in the construction of sentiments in much of the Islamic community. One man's good is another's evil. That being said, any such evil is demonstrably immoral and wrong, but such belief inspires a subjective view that overrides what should be decent humanitarian impulses.

By Islamist standards, adherence to a fundamental code of divine law might arguably be a precondition for all other human relationships, the eternally stable rock upon which they must be built. If God's law requires that blasphemers be killed so as to prevent erosion of that foundation, then killing them can only be a good thing.

Unfortunately, when that Islamist vision immigrates into present day Paris, it crashes into the equally well-entrenched Western ideals of free thought and freedom of expression, and in Paris particularly, the often critical, corrosive and even anarchical connotations of the French concept of 'Liberte'. So violent collisions occur like those we saw at the Charlie Hebdo office.
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Well said. I'll still hold to my stance that Islamism is by its very existence antisocial, of course, since the goods are naturally subjective. In getting at what these people hate, is there a better way to draw them out and shame them for their hatreds? I think that's been successful in the West. Bombard them with images of humanely-rendered people - women, homosexuals, non-Muslims - until their questionable moral scaffolding collapses on itself. Or go after their religious architecture in the manner that was done over the last hundred years in our society? Provide them examples of the lie that they are, or instead undercut their uncritical belief in the finer hatreds of their system? Hard to say what would be more effective.
 
Randwolf said:
Amazing how quickly a normally soft spoken and semi-rational religionist can be provoked simply by pointing out that their particular faith is also capable of radicalization. Instant outrage followed by denial...

And so forth and so on. "Nonsense!" the Christians exclaim. "That's entirely different. No sane person could hold Christianity responsible, these people are obviously disturbed nut cases."

Move along, nothing to see here...
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Oh, come on Randwolf. No way the numbers are higher for Christian terrorism over the past few years: and absolutely not on a per-capita basis. Fair's fair: some systems or communities have, at present, a greater density of conservative sentiments, some of which translate into violence of whatever form.

That said, as to holding 'Christianity' or the 'Christian system' responsible - certainly the latter can and has and probably should be implicated in a number of antisocialities. Or is North American homophobia all a big societal misunderstanding? It surely has some religious/liturgical basis, though I'm not sure how it would be explicitly checked.
 
CEngelbrecht said:
Stay clear of guns, then.
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I think it takes way more than just sexual frustration to target a cartoonist, I mean that's really specific. And you can't discount religion because otherwise they wouldn't believe they would be rewarded in heaven.
 
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