Crop Circles: A Scientific Research

Status
Not open for further replies.
Light said:
OK, that's about enough of this foolishness! Time for me to take off my obligatory professor's suit and tie and put on my marine biologist's working clothes - jeans and white T-shirt.

This isn't so much directed at you, Giambattista, as it is the people who have written the kinds of things you've read and repeated here.

This is what happens all too often when people with just a bare minimum of scientific knowledge (and the right impressive words) take it upon themselves to talk about things of which they really know nothing at all!

Biological changes?? Mutations?!?! How stupid can people actually be? Such things cannot occur just overnight (the time it takes for a crop circle to appear)! And mutations in particular!! Do not these idiots understand that for mutations to appear would require the seeds to mature, sprout and produce new plants (another generation)? And that takes weeks if not months. In other words such observations have never been made.

"Effects of microwave radiation" is another pile of rubbish. Do you even have a clue what the effects of microwave radiation are on a living plant? Obviously not in the least. Here's what would really happen: the plants would wilt and become somewhat dehydrated. Period.

This whole topic belongs in a pseudo-science forum and has no place here in the General Science and Technology forum.
Click to expand...

Whoa! Slow down there, Brain!

I'm not a "specialist" on the topic of crop circles in any manner. I have a passing interest, nothing more. I saw the thread, thought I would say a few things.

I distinctly remember people examing the plants and noticing certain things. I said biological changes but I meant it vaguely because I haven't seen or read anything on the subject for a long time, so everything I was talking about was kind of hazy. I was hoping someone else knew more than I do and would elaborate.

Notice "mutations" was in parentheses with a question mark behind it? Because I was unsure of what I was getting at. I think deformities would have been a more accurate term. Sorry.

Do you even have a clue what the effects of microwave radiation are on a living plant?
Click to expand...

OF COURSE I DO! Microwaves make things cold. Brrr!!! They freeze. Like Mr. Freeze. Remember him? From Batman? He's real, you know.

About the microwaves, I remember quite well (on a television show) seeing close-ups of a stalk of wheat, and the nodes had exploded, as if something had heated them from the inside and the pressure of the steam caused them to "pop" (like popcorn).
I was recounting what I saw. If I remember correctly, they had simply mentioned microwaves as a possible reason for the unusual damage to the stalks. It was an hypothesis of theirs! They being whoever was doing the research. He "appeared" to be affiliated with a laboratory. I believe it was an older man.

Yes, people actually examined these plants up close!
I bet some of them have even dissected the plants and examined the cells under a microscope!

How many field investigations have you done on crop circles? 1? 0?
Are you a botanist? Have you examined the plants personally? Have you taken any measurements for magnetic anomalies or radiation?

Neither have I! ;)

Really, dude, you didn't have to be so harsh.
I've noticed a trend around here of people going all out with the insults for practically nothing at all. Petty things. Does it make something bigger? :rolleyes:

I was merely stating things I had heard, read, or seen. And I guess if your answer to how many investigations you've done is 0, should I really trust your "expertise" as the final answer over other people's who actually have a few investigations under their belts?

Well, should I?

I await the very good reason you must have for why I should believe you over anyone else as the supreme authority on this matter.
 
TruthSeeker said:
That's silly, Light. Have you ever heard of "cancer"?
Click to expand...

Light said:
Are you actually serious? We're talking about plants, remember? And cancer isn't a mutation, it's simply (and I use that word lightly) runaway reproduction.
Click to expand...

Just so TruthSeeker doesn't think he/she was out of line in bringing up cancer as a mutation:

Cancer is a class of diseases characterized by uncontrolled division of cells and the ability of these cells to invade other tissues, either by direct growth into adjacent tissue (invasion) or by implantation into distant sites (metastasis). This unregulated growth is caused by damage to DNA, resulting in mutations to genes that control cell division. Several mutations may be required to transform a normal cell into a malignant cell. These mutations are often caused by chemicals or physical agents called carcinogens, the best known being tobacco smoke. Some mutations occur spontaneously, or they can be inherited (germ line mutations.)

I suppose technically a person could argue that cancer is only a RESULT of mutation, not an actual mutation.

But you can just as easily call cancer itself a mutation. A mutation is a change. I believe it is especially used in reference to an abnormal change in form or growth. Cancer is indeed abnormal, is it not?

Oh, well.
 
Last edited:
Light said:
Are you actually serious? We're talking about plants, remember?
Click to expand...
http://academy.d20.co.edu/kadets/lundberg/ptc.html

And cancer isn't a mutation, it's simply (and I use that word lightly) runaway reproduction.
Click to expand...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinogenesis

Which leads me to think that the whole thing is a hoax and the people "researching" them (not you) simply don't know what they are doing.
Click to expand...
Do you have a list of people researching them? How do you know if they are accurate or not? Do you simple say "oh this one concludes ETs make them" and say that they don't know what they are doing?

They are no better than ghost chasers in my opinion. Always looking but really producing nothing but their own unfounded speculations.
Click to expand...
Just like cosmology and a few kinds of physics those days..... :bugeye:
 
TruthSeeker said:
The thing that most displeased me in this thread so far is someone mentioning a video of a crop circle being made by supposedly ETS and no links or anything to the video.
Click to expand...
There are a couple of videos shot from different angles of a complex circle appearing spontaneously as bright lights circle overhead. You can see one of them on this site from France:
http://www.cyberventes.com/ZI/cropcircle.htm
Scroll down to the middle of the page and click on 'video la formation...'

The site also has a few pics of the stalks that show deformations at the bending point - not the kind of 'broken' stems one sees in faked circles.
 
TruthSeeker said:
Do you have a list of people researching them? How do you know if they are accurate or not? Do you simple say "oh this one concludes ETs make them" and say that they don't know what they are doing?

Just like cosmology and a few kinds of physics those days..... :bugeye:
Click to expand...

Same question I asked: what gives him a monopoly on the truth when it comes to crop circles, manmade or otherwise?

I just looked up the steam escaping from the nodes:

Most dramatic were grossly elongated plant nodes (the "knuckles" along the stem) and "expulsion cavities" -- holes literally blown open at the nodes -- caused by the heating of internal moisture from exposure to intense bursts of radiation. The steam inside the stems escaped by either stretching the nodes or, in less elastic tissue, exploding out like a potato bursting open in a microwave oven.

All this proves is that my memory wasn't too shabby after all!
I'm sure if Light was the expert, he would have KNOWN what I was talking about instead of just ridiculing me outright.

Of course, we all know the microwaves actually FREEZE things, not HEAT them! :) :m:
 
Carcano said:
There are a couple of videos shot from different angles of a complex circle appearing spontaneously as bright lights circle overhead. You can see one of them on this site from France:
http://www.cyberventes.com/ZI/cropcircle.htm
Scroll down to the middle of the page and click on 'video la formation...'
Click to expand...
Thats the one. On the documentary "Is it Real? - Crop Circles" the guy who created that video explained how he did it. It is known as the Olivers Castle video.

Carcano said:
The site also has a few pics of the stalks that show deformations at the bending point - not the kind of 'broken' stems one sees in faked circles.
Click to expand...
Hoaxers are perfectly capable of bending stalks without breaking them. It just depends how green the plants are. That deformation at the bend point is normal.
 
Light said:
Biological changes?? Mutations?!?! How stupid can people actually be? Such things cannot occur just overnight (the time it takes for a crop circle to appear)! And mutations in particular!! Do not these idiots understand that for mutations to appear would require the seeds to mature, sprout and produce new plants (another generation)? And that takes weeks if not months. In other words such observations have never been made.
Click to expand...

What are YOU talking about?
Treating seeds of Cannabis sativa with colchicine (a toxic derivative of the Crocus bulb), if successful, will double or triple or possibly even quadruple the chromosomes (polyploidy). The very first generation will show these traits if the mutation was successful.

http://www.overgrow.com/growfaq/775

What does radiation often do to organisms, if it doesn't outright kill them?
Do we have to wait for seed production?

Light said:
This is what happens all too often when people with just a bare minimum of scientific knowledge (and the right impressive words) take it upon themselves to talk about things of which they really know nothing at all!
Click to expand...

What, dear Light, happens when people shoot, but don't look where they're aiming?
 
Hmm. I feel like mentioning again that people are quick to start swearing and calling people names like: blind, idiot, stupid, etc. It's rather childish in most cases, and it especially looks bad when your accusations aren't entirely truthful.

I have noticed there's alot of men on this forum. I have also noticed that men seem to resort to name calling and "spurious" allegations much more easily than women.

Or is that another pseudo-scientific observation?
 
TruthSeeker said:
Good discussion.... :)

:D
Click to expand...

I take it you're referring to my one-man discussion about throwing out insults.

That's probably not what you were talking about, but hey! :p

Let's talk about mutations, shall we?
 
Giambattista said:
Let's talk about mutations, shall we?
Click to expand...

Does anyone know what chemical it is that makes certain fruits abnormally large? Like 2 pound apples, or something like that?!?! Maybe I'm exaggerating! :confused:

I remember it was something of a novelty, but unfortunately the fruits produced are sterile.
Maybe someone should do an experiment. Imagine raspberries as big as a kiwi!
 
How long until Light comes back to larn us a thing or two about science?
 
Last edited:
Carcano said:
There are a couple of videos shot from different angles of a complex circle appearing spontaneously as bright lights circle overhead. You can see one of them on this site from France:
http://www.cyberventes.com/ZI/cropcircle.htm
Scroll down to the middle of the page and click on 'video la formation...'

The site also has a few pics of the stalks that show deformations at the bending point - not the kind of 'broken' stems one sees in faked circles.
Click to expand...

Hello. I remember seeing that video. I cannot say whether it is authentic or not, but I have heard it was a probable hoax (actually, saw on TV). I would probably sway in that direction. I'll have to see something else on it.

I believe that humans CAN replicate the bending of the stalks, from what I have heard, though I don't know how FREQUENTLY it happens.

From the little I know, it is the other effects that are not so easy for humans to replicate.

Wasn't it Colin Andrews that was wondering about some shape (celtic cross?) that he wanted to see in a crop circle, and the next day, lo and behold, one had formed? I heard something like that.
 
Giambattista said:
Hello. I remember seeing that video. I cannot say whether it is authentic or not, but I have heard it was a probable hoax (actually, saw on TV). I would probably sway in that direction. I'll have to see something else on it.
Click to expand...
http://media.putfile.com/BallsOfLight

Actually the mans name might be John Wabe not John Wheyleigh. hmm

Giambattista said:
Wasn't it Colin Andrews that was wondering about some shape (celtic cross?) that he wanted to see in a crop circle, and the next day, lo and behold, one had formed? I heard something like that.
Click to expand...
I heard a group of people were in a field and concentrated on a shape. The next morning the same shaped crop circle was found a km or so away. An interesting story. Not proof of anything but it sounds like a test that could be repeated.
 
shaman_ said:
http://media.putfile.com/BallsOfLight

Actually the mans name might be John Wabe not John Wheyleigh. hmm

I heard a group of people were in a field and concentrated on a shape. The next morning the same shaped crop circle was found a km or so away. An interesting story. Not proof of anything but it sounds like a test that could be repeated.
Click to expand...

John Wayne? ;)

I think perhaps the example you gave was different from the one I was thinking of, though I believe I may have heard what you are talking about.

I'm not a crop circle buff, so I don't know everything there is to know about it!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top