Extreme Atheism - leads to a Proxy God by default.

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that includes love and loving, life and living etc I suppose?
You mean human/animal emotions? Read the OT if you want to qualify the nature of God's compassion.

But yes, if you want to assign emotion to God, it is your responsibility to explain how a supernatural entity experiences emotions. What is the mechanism that allows a "mind" to experience emotion?

And is a God able to alter the universal mathematical constants and functions on an emotional whim?
Evidence?
 
Sure... what part of my queston do you not understand.???
what was your question and how was it relevant to the discussion.
You made a statement and you made a question...
the statement:
I dont know any atheists who accept determinism as fact
the question:
do you accept God as fact.???

  • The statement indicates the limitations of your experience...
  • The question is irrelevant to the thread...
So I assumed you may have intended to contribute more and asked you to elaborate...before forming an opinion.
 
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You mean human emotions? Read the OT if you want to qualify the nature of God's compassion.

But yes, if you want to assign emotion to God, it is your responsibility to explain how a supernatural entity experiences emotions. What is the mechanism that allows a "mind" to experience emotion?

And is a God able to alter the universal mathematical constants and functions on an emotional whim?
Evidence?
the only math a God of your choosing would use is 0=/=0
 
In furtherance of post #81
Here are some examp[les of God's love and compassion.
Cruelty and Violence in the Bible

  1. Genesis
  2. Because God liked Abel's animal sacrifice more than Cain's vegetables, Cain kills his brother Abel in a fit of religious jealousy. 4:8
  3. "I will destroy ... both man and beast."
    God is angry. He decides to destroy all humans, beasts, creeping things, fowls, and "all flesh wherein there is breath of life." He plans to drown them all.6:7, 17
  4. "Every living substance that I have made will I destroy."
    God repeats his intention to kill "every living substance ... from off the face of the earth." But why does God kill all the innocent animals? What had they done to deserve his wrath? It seems God never gets his fill of tormenting animals. 7:4
  5. "All flesh died that moved upon the earth."
    God drowns everything that breathes air. From newborn babies to koala bears -- all creatures great and small, the Lord God drowned them all. 7:21-23
  6. God sends a plague on the Pharaoh and his household because the Pharaoh believed Abram's lie. 12:17
  7. God tells Abram to kill some animals for him. The needless slaughter makes God feel better. 15:9-10
And that's just a sample. https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html
 
the only math a God of your choosing would use is 0=/=0
He would? Well, there you have it. God is a mathematician........:D

No QQ, a god of my choosing would bear the name "Potential" (That which may become reality). Can you muster an argument against that concept?
 
There's a different example on record in this thread, already, but it doesn't follow the model you describe. Indeed, while I see what you're getting at, the proxy God can emerge by much simpler phenomenon.

To the atheistic regard for logical inquiry and rational discourse, pretty much any assertion of God is nonsensical and illogical. In that context, the idea of God as determinism might seem an illogical exercise, but how is it illogical? To note the point of God existing usually suffices for atheist argumentation.

Sometimes, though, that is not actually what is going on. We have in this thread an example of an atheist requiring what God must be. What any given atheist needs God to be in order to validate one's own atheism is its own almost dangerously enchanting question.

To take, for instance, what some might refer to, approximately, as the Sky Daddy; this is a cynical and reactionary caricature, and is not without its reason, justification, and application. To the other, it is what it is, and this point becomes important in itself when an argument demands the cynical, reactionary caricature become something more.

In this case, we do not necessarily have a specific iteration of God at hand according to a rejection thereof, but, rather, a limitation of what God is allowed to be. Indeed, the functional purpose of doing so is to contain God within the range of the atheist's doctrinal argument.

That is, another's consideration of God is rejected in favor of the atheist's God.

As a more general phenomenon, it comes up repeatedly in evangelical atheism.

In the context of a basic fallacy, it's perfectly human behavior; we tend to assert our judgment over history according to moral aesthetics contemporary to our priority. This works well enough as a comparative question undertaken rationally, but as defining presupposition it is fallacious. Who the hell is going to go up to that white supremacist shooter who needed Burger King after massacring worshippers that he needs to have darker skin in order to be a proper villain? Given the stakes involved in fretting or raging about religious politics, the difference between dealing with the problem in front of them and requiring others abide a different critique in order to validate it ought to stand out as a billowing flag of fallacy.

The more particular point being that when an atheist requires a particular iteration of God that fits their argument against, the atheist requires their own God.

It's a little bit different than what you're after, but the determinism discussion is about as big as the Universe itself.

A good post and thanks for taking the time to do so...
Admittedly the posting of the this thread topic using the wording that I chose was destined to invite controversy.

To state an obvious contradiction "Atheism <=> Proxy God by default" was guaranteed to provoke an immediate reaction, which proved itself by creating two pages of forum "chat" with in about 60 minutes of posting the topic.
It may even bolster forum membership once Google indexes it in the next 12 days or so, hopefully bringing in some good thinkers to improve the intellectual productivity of discussions held here at sciforums.

Imagining a NYT headline : Athiests believe in God, and you get the picture.

Now, we all know how spurious headlines can be but no doubt my last comment will attract those who may seek to defend their position and in doing so only go on to prove the point that scientific fatalism, especially if it includes scientific pre-determinism, leads inexorably to the consequence of a proxy God by default.
There for one could easily extend the logic and consider that Extreme Atheism is in fact a religion of a monotheistic kind with out the extreme atheist realizing it.

One only needs to ask them one specific question :

What is responsible for all of human suffering?

And the muted silence of their response is deafening.
 
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He would? Well, there you have it. God is a mathematician........:D

No QQ, a god of my choosing would bear the name "Potential" (That which may become reality). Can you muster an argument against that concept?
you have no idea of just how much potential there is in a paradox do you?
0=/=0 is what makes this universe come into existence....
because existence is attempting to solve the unsolvable paradox.

oops, did I just let the cat out of the bag ?

please ignore the above and consider it as utter nonsense.
 
If humans have no responsibility for their actions due to fatalism, religious or scientific, then how can you blame humans?
No freewill, no self determination and bingo the universe is suddenly responsible, which makes the universe what?
 
you have no idea of just how much potential there is in a paradox do you?
Apparently you have no idea of the implications contained in the word potential.
It is one of the most profound scientific concepts in all of science.

While not all potential becomes reality, all reality is, was, and will be preceded by potential.
 
In furtherance of post #81
Here are some examp[les of God's love and compassion. And that's just a sample. https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html
and then apparently God matured and gave humanity his only son to redeem them of the crimes he himself set an example to....according to some...
The Christ was more about redeeming the Father than about redeeming humanity some theologists would argue.
It amazes me that people will use the old testament and conveniently ignore the evolution towards Christianity.
Christianity is about the new testament not just about the Old testament... ( there is no Christ in the Old testament.)
 
if it leads the atheist into deeper understanding of his beliefs then sure, it's a positive step...
What beliefs? In God?
Have you been listening?

Are you asserting that atheists are incapable of deeper understanding? Here we go ........again!

I just presented you with one of the most profound words in scientific language, Potential.
And you don't even bother to look at it, in order to gain a deeper understanding of universal values and functions.

I would consider that a positive step.......:)
 
More to the point: you'll have to demonstrate how and why it could happen in the first place before anyone needs to demonstrate why it might not.
what might not?
Oh that's right that thing that hasn't been assumed in the first place.

How can you denounce freewill as an illusion with out knowing what you are denouncing?
 
I couldn't agree more....
The potential of 0=/=o is the key to exnihilo
Right and your concept does not create something from nothing? Read your Genesis. You just add an additional complication to the process, a pre-existing motivated God. Way to go with your exnihilo!
 
What beliefs? In God?
Have you been listening?

Are you asserting that atheists are incapable of deeper understanding? Here we go ........again!

I just presented you with one of the most profound words in scientific language, Potential.
And you don't even bother to look at it, in order to gain a deeper understanding of universal values and functions.

I would consider that a positive step.......:)
dealing with your obvious paranoia would be a great step to...
I have posted at least 3 posts that agree with you and you come back at me with this nonsense...
 
Right and your concept does not create something from nothing? Read your Genesis. Just just add an additional complication to the process, a pre-existing motivated God. Way to go with your exnihilo!
and what existed before the God you refer to ?
Do you even know what exnihilo means?
or
"Is God a mere metaphor for another metaphor called a butterfly?" ~ anon

re: the butterfly effect
 
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