Science will prove/discover God

[Write4U]

Intelligence ; is a biological , Life form . And energy . Indeed,

I see this from a different perspective. Mathematical quasi-intelligence is already present in pure chemicals and the very specific mathematical/physical ways they MUST interact. All information sharing constitutes an act of intelligence, even when the informational (mathematical) languages differ and both sender and recipient are unaware of the information sharing.
However, an entire class of chemicals are relatively restricted in movement. Their patterns are just too dense for flexible movements, those are the "solids", as separate from "fluid".

OTOH, the class of bio-chemicals are extremely flexible in communicating with each other and can form a great variety of patterns and movements, dynamical organic patterns (cells) with ability for processing energy for survivability, growth, and duplicating in numbers by mitosis.

mi·to·sis, noun
BIOLOGY

1. a type of cell division that results in two daughter cells each having the same number and kind of chromosomes as the parent nucleus, typical of ordinary tissue growth.
   "the single large egg cell subdivides by repeated mitosis"

Life as well as energy and matter , exist in our Universe .

I agree, but there is a smooth curve from inanimate chemical patterns acting in a quasi intelligent manner, to animate bio-chemical patterns acting in a progressively consciously intelligent manner. Ability to learn and apply learned knowledge for survival.
Life is not a mysterious thing, it is remarkable but not mysterious. There is no "elan vital' that creates a specific distinction, different from complexity as a product of extended mutative evolutionary processes.
The only requirement is an inherent Dynamical aspect to the universal geometry.

Definition of élan vital. : the vital force or impulse of life especially : a creative principle held by Bergson to be immanent in all organisms and responsible for evolution.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/élan vital

Does a crystal posses an elan vital?

Agitation should be sufficient to keep the calcium sulfate in suspension for crystal growth.
Many salts form nuclei and start crystal growth almost as soon as supersaturated conditions are reached.
Crystal growth is the process of making a crystal grow by continuing to remove a component from a solution.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/crystal-growth

Thus just a simple imbalance can be sufficient "elan vital" for growth of a purely non-biological crystalline object. It merely needs a dynamical environment with stuff in it. The rest is a probabilistic but deterministic evolution of physical patterns, to ever greater density until "quorum sensing" of sentient organisms can physically relate and interact with patterns at the "level of sensory observation".

We settle on reality by agreement and ability to predict deterministic functions. It's a collective "best guess" , the very same principle as the bacterial "quorum sensing"

 

[river]

Agreed

Write4U

Sensory of our environment is important to evolution . Of both Animals and plant life .

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Why would one's belief in God require that science give a specific answer to this question, that we don’t yet know the answer to? I wonder if human life were to be found on other planets, if it would shatter the faith of believers, today. Considering that most ancient texts only discuss Earth, it would be interesting to see the reactions.

Religion gives fewer and fewer answer to all questions.

 

[wegs]

Religion gives fewer and fewer answer to all questions.

Well, religious people aren't always asking the same questions non-religious people ask, so the answers might be satisfying to them.

An example would be evolution. Many religious people believe in Creationism, hence they might not even know how to discuss evolution, separate and away from their religious mindset.

 

[river]

Well, religious people aren't always asking the same questions non-religious people ask, so the answers might be satisfying to them.

An example would be evolution. Many religious people believe in Creationism, hence they might not even know how to discuss evolution, separate and away from their religious mindset.

And vis versa .

 

[wegs]

And vis versa .

Yep. : )

 

[river]

Life is part of this Universe . Always has .

 

[Write4U]

Life is part of this Universe . Always has .

So it seems, but what is life?

Life is the characteristic that distinguishes organisms from inorganic substances and dead objects.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_(disambiguation)

However, Tegmark reduces this even further, by defining life as a"dynamic pattern".

What is the difference in a live beetle and a dead beetle? Physically there is none. The difference is only in the arrangement of patterns. One pattern is dynamical, the other is not.

The difference between densities of molecules results in a quorum sensing which produces a gaseous state, a liquid state, a solid state. Water H2O (in its 3 states) is a perfect example of quorum sensing based on temperature and density.

Which leads me to the conclusion that physical (chemical) information sharing between molecules itself is a proto-intelligent function.
And mathematics are a quasi-intelligent form of assessing values and functions, which emerges as sentience in living biological patterns (organisms), but remains in latent form in non-biological patterns (structures).

 

[Michael 345]

Religion gives fewer and fewer answer to all questions.

Religion gives poorer and poorer explanation answers the more Science learns and puts the information out there

 

[river]

So it seems, but what is life? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_(disambiguation)

However, Tegmark reduces this even further, by defining life as a"dynamic pattern".

What is the difference in a live beetle and a dead beetle? Physically there is none. The difference is only in the arrangement of patterns. One pattern is dynamical, the other is not.

The difference between densities of molecules results in a quorum sensing which produces a gaseous state, a liquid state, a solid state. Water H2O (in its 3 states) is a perfect example of quorum sensing based on temperature and density.

Which leads me to the conclusion that physical (chemical) information sharing between molecules itself is a proto-intelligent function.
And mathematics are a quasi-intelligent form of assessing values and functions, which emerges as sentience in living biological patterns (organisms), but remains in latent form in non-biological patterns (structures).

To your second last statement , yes .

Which means that Life is in all physical things .

Sentience , life form able to sense environmental multiple energy forms . Three dimensionally . Constantly .

 

[Write4U]

Which means that Life is in all physical things .

But if there is life in all physical things, then all physical things must also die.
We can recognize the difference in the patterns. Dynamic patterns are a form of life, static patterns are a form of death or stasis.

 

[Michael 345]

But if there is life in all physical things, then all physical things must also die.
We can recognize the difference in the patterns. Dynamic patterns are a form of life, static patterns are a form of death or stasis.

Physical inorganic stuff does not die

Only organic stuff dies, becomes unable to self replicate

Physical inorganic stuff did not have a self replicating ability to start with

Remember every single atom in your body of all the chemicals your body is comprised of ARE NOT ALIVE

Combine in the form of your body however they comprise a PROCESS

It is the PROCESS we call life, not the ingredients

 

[Write4U]

Physical inorganic stuff does not die

It ages and eventually dies as the pattern it used to be. Also known as decaying to a lower energy state.

Michael 345,
It is the PROCESS we call life, not the ingredients

I understand, but everything is always undergoing a process of change.
Can we call a process of change, a form of living?
If a certain (cell) pattern grows and then divides it's called mitosis and is a typical process of living organisms.

This process can also be observed in the state of the ozone layer. A clorine molecule interacts with an ozone molecule and destroys the ozone molecule, but creates a new chlorine molecule in the process. It's not mitosis, but more like having a baby.

Why does CFC react to ozone?
Chlorine and bromine separate from the CFCs (chlorofluorocarbons) and destroy the ozone molecules. The chlorine and bromine atoms are not changed, so they continue destroying ozone. One chlorine atom can destroy up to 100,000 molecules of ozone during its lifetime in the atmosphere.

Free oxygen atoms can replace the chlorine in chlorine monoxide, releasing a free atom of chlorine which can then recombine with an oxygen atom in ozone, destroying more ozone.

https://www.answers.com/Q/How_does_chlorine_atom_destroy_the_ozone_layer

Michael 345,
Remember every single atom in your body of all the chemicals your body is comprised of ARE NOT ALIVE

Yet, they interact dynamically and experience quorum sensing. They are just not conscious of the process, but then not all very basic living organismsm are conscious or have neural networks or brains at all, yet they are alive, they can learn, remember, and physically evolve into more complex living organisms. (Don't forget the bacteria.)

Although Penrose might argue that even at quantum, the event is crossing a threshold which resolves in a "bing" (a reactive moment of unconscious awareness).

What we call "being sick" in living organisms is often referred to as "symmetry breaking" or "imbalance" for the same condition in physics.

I know it is stretching the meaning of life and death, but we do use terms like half-life for physical inorganic stuff.

 

[Michael 345]

Can we call a process of change, a form of living?

No

Well I guess if you wish to redefine words, in a colloquial manner, after all language is a living thing, writing to all the dictionary publishers of dictionaries. They might be kind enough to agree OR they might suggest they will redefine along your suggestion if the word changes organically (neat eh?)

What we call "being sick" in living organisms is often referred to as "symmetry breaking" or "imbalance" for the same condition in physics.

40 years nursing never heard "symmetry breaking"

Come here nurse we have a "symmetry breaking" patient ?????

The old days of horse and carriage (sighs for the good ol'days) we did have doctors (sighs) who spoke of humours (sighs) being in balance (well / in a good mood) or unbalanced, sick but never "symmetry breaking"

I know it is stretching the meaning of life and death, but we do use terms like half-life for physical inorganic stuff.

Stretching???? You are cutting it into segments and placing them a metre apart

And it should be half-age

 

[Write4U]

No

Well I guess if you wish to redefine words, in a colloquial manner, after all language is a living thing, writing to all the dictionary publishers of dictionaries. They might be kind enough to agree OR they might suggest they will redefine along your suggestion if the word changes organically (neat eh?)

40 years nursing never heard "symmetry breaking"
Come here nurse we have a "symmetry breaking" patient ?????

But then I was speaking in context of natural physics.

In physics, symmetry breaking is a phenomenon in which (infinitesimally) small fluctuations acting on a system crossing a critical point decide the system's fate, by determining which branch of a bifurcation is taken.

To an outside observer unaware of the fluctuations (or "noise"), the choice will appear arbitrary. This process is called symmetry "breaking", because such transitions usually bring the system from a symmetric but disorderlystate into one or more definite states. Symmetry breaking is thought to play a major role in pattern formation.

A ball is initially located at the top of the central hill (C). This position is an unstable equilibrium: a very small perturbation will cause it to fall to one of the two stable wells left (L) or (R). Even if the hill is symmetric and there is no reason for the ball to fall on either side, the observed final state is not symmetric.[/quote]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symmetry_breaking

The old days of horse and carriage (sighs for the good ol'days) we did have doctors (sighs) who spoke of humours (sighs) being in balance (well / in a good mood) or unbalanced, sick but never "symmetry breaking"

Nor did we have the expression "interfacing" either.

Stretching???? You are cutting it into segments and placing them a metre apart

We are talking on a universal scale.....

And it should be half-age

But it isn't called that......

 

[Michael 345]

But it isn't called that......

Can't help that

It should be

Tomatoes are called vegetables but are fruits
Peanuts are not nuts but are peas

Nuts are a food stuff but also non living parts of many non living items holding bits together with a companion bolt

Truce because this is a centermetre off topic?

 

[Michael 345]

Well, I've been trying to prove infinity is a real number.

But, maybe I'm a half baked banana.

Infinity is s sleeping 8

 

[sideshowbob]

Infinity is s sleeping 8

Infinity Sleeps would be a good movie title.

 

[Michael 345]

Infinity Sleeps would be a good movie title.

Agree

Start writing the script

It was a dark and windy night

Suddenly from out of the shadows stepped INFINITY

She had no idea how long she had been there

(to be continued by the next poster)

 

[Write4U]

Agree

Start writing the script

It was a dark and windy night

Suddenly from out of the shadows stepped INFINITY

She had no idea how long she had been there

(to be continued by the next poster)

Just at the edge of the forest, in the field, a group of thieves sat around the camp-fire.
"Who knows a story" asked one.
"I" said another, and he began:
"It was a dark and windy night

Suddenly from out of the shadows stepped INFINITY

She had no idea how long she had been there"

(to be continued by the next poster)