Should we use data of Nazi's human experiences?

Is the scientific data from these experiments so important? I can't imagine with the state of science today that it is still all that relevent. I would rather pay a couple million dollars towards modern research than reap any benefit from the Nazi research.

Hmm, what if some other groups felt the same way about using rats and mice and other animals in scientific research? Would you just tell THOSE people to fuck off ....and allow the research to continue?

I know it's an odd concept to grasp, but other people feel differently about things than you do. So how can you hold to your own ideals and ethics, yet tell others to fuck off when they present theirs?

Baron Max
 
Hmm, what if some other groups felt the same way about using rats and mice and other animals in scientific research? Would you just tell THOSE people to fuck off ....and allow the research to continue?
Yes. It's my opinion. I'm not a dictator, such matters should be subject to the will of the nation, perhaps people should vote on it.
I know it's an odd concept to grasp, but other people feel differently about things than you do. So how can you hold to your own ideals and ethics, yet tell others to fuck off when they present theirs?
You can't please everyone. I would consider their appeals, but rats and mice are not people. I admit my view is biased toward people. I eat animals, so considering their rights is not a priority, although I am against any cruel treatment of them, and inflicting excessive pain upon them should be avoided.
 
Is the scientific data from these experiments so important?

As Anonymous has already said, the issue is moot.
A done deal.


Anyway.
Did you know that the nazis also performed the Forbidden Experiment? That is, they raised children in sterile environments away from most social stimulation?
Unfortunately, they didn't mean to. That is, they thought they were actually raising a race of ubermen, not vegetables.
And, they didn't go all the way.

Now, if they had performed the experiment of raising wild humans, then that data would be immensely valuable today.
More than most could possibly conceive.
 
as a matter of fact if the victims do not get credit for the discovery i will never, to my knowledge, use it for myself or my family.

So you'll refuse a heart transplant and/or a skin graft?
Really?

if they knew what they was volunteering for? yes.

Interesting.
So you think that it's ok for people to volunteer for suicidal research? And that the researchers would be moral in conducting experimentation on these volunteers? Research such as germ warfare? Amputation? Vivisection? Sewing twins together back to back?


As to money.
Mengele didn't receive royalties for how his research was used to further medical practice.
 
So you'll refuse a heart transplant and/or a skin graft?
Really?
if the data that makes it possible came from manges unethical experimentation of the unknowing innocent, yes i would.
Interesting.
So you think that it's ok for people to volunteer for suicidal research?
if they knew what they was doing, yes.
And that the researchers would be moral in conducting experimentation on these volunteers?
Research such as germ warfare? Amputation? Vivisection? Sewing twins together back to back?
yes.
As to money.
Mengele didn't receive royalties for how his research was used to further medical practice.
even you yourself gives mangles credit, not even mentioning the victims.
possibly because you have no idea who the victim was.
 
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Anyway.
Did you know that the nazis also performed the Forbidden Experiment? That is, they raised children in sterile environments away from most social stimulation?
Unfortunately, they didn't mean to. That is, they thought they were actually raising a race of ubermen, not vegetables.
And, they didn't go all the way.
have any links to this research?
 
Mr. Anonymous:

By the time most Jews were actually shipped to the camps they'd already been confined to city ghetto's for a considerable number of weeks and months - years, in some cases. Starved, beaten, sick. Denied basic human rights, recognition of citizenship, the option to leave, adequate food and medical supplies for the duration. The only way either in or out of the Ghettos was via armed checkpoint - barb wire and barricades defined the Ghettos.

All the more reason to fight back. It ought to have been known that the only way out was death at this point. What is life then worth?

If a Jew refused to obey an order five or ten were summarily either hung or shot by firing squad in front of the rest - have you any idea the number of men, women and children who died that way there in the streets of what were basically their own homes?

Again: Tis "better to fight on our feet than live on our knees".

Kill your own women and children if need be. Better that they die by your hand than be left to the Nazis.

Before the Ghetto's went up the Germans had basically robbed them of but the very basic of things they could readily hide - after they came, they came en mass and with guns which they used - there were resistors. They were shot.

I respect every Jew who was shot in combat with the Nazis.

However, you've never in your life been put in a situation where your daughter could be hung or shot for your act of rebellion right in front of your eyes.

I would kill her myself if need be.

Do you honestly think a single one of these people accepted their eventual fate either blindly, willingly or in anyway easily - of course, a bullet would have been so much quicker and kinder in comparison to what fate awaited them - but they weren't privy to what became, subsequently, History.

A person who has no foresight as to see the obvious? What did they think when they were boarding trains?

You honestly think a single one of the men there took so much as the first rifle butt in the face and the kicking that came afterwards because they liked it - that they were in anyway, at least in the early stages of Ghetto's, incapable of striking back? People did. It got their wives and their children murdered.

Was it not the Jew's greatest king, Solomon, who said: There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven...a time to die...a time to kill?

There are times when pain must be accepted. So be it.

Thousands died through sickness and starvation there in the Ghetto's, left to rot. Thousands more never survived the fright cars - packed side by side, indeed treated worse than animals - malnutrition had already worked its magic - most were too weak even to stand.

The result of endemic cowardice. This is what happens when you don't fight back. They could have died as heroes and martyrs. Instead, they chose to die worse than the pigs they refuse to eat.

If there is a Hell, it is filled with every Jew who didn't fight against what they knew to be monsterous evil committed against them.

Spidergoat:

The armed resistances you mentioned are very inspiring. Those were some damn heroic Jews.
 
Prince James.

You're obviously a very brave man when it comes to other peoples lives, James. Saddest thing of all though, is that I'm perfectly prepared to actually believe you.

 
You're an idiot.
While that is debatable, I myself have always wondered why there was apparently so little mass resistance to what was going on?

Maybe a good argument for having an armed population that can resist the government...
 
While that is debatable, I myself have always wondered why there was apparently so little mass resistance to what was going on?

You're basically well fed and live in a society which recognises your fundamental right to be considered human - why would you understand it?
 
All the more reason to fight back. It ought to have been known that the only way out was death at this point. What is life then worth?

It's pretty easy to say things like that in hindsight. But please remember that the Jews didn't really know all that awaited them at the hands of the Nazis. It's difficult for even the bravest of us to choose death, when we still have hope for the future.

A person who has no foresight as to see the obvious? What did they think when they were boarding trains?

Rumors, guesses, fearfull murmurings, etc is NOT proof of anything ...and certainly not enough to choose to fight with armed guards all around you.

Many, if not most, of the Jews in the early days, at least, didn't really know what was going to happen to them. Again, Prince James, you're using hindsight to your advantage ....the German Jews didn't have that advantage.

Prince James, I have to agree with your basic sentiments, but I think you're not being all that fair to the Jews. They didn't know all that you know now, they only had vague ideas at best, rumors and such as sources of info. Please try to understand that.

Baron Max
 
While that is debatable, I myself have always wondered why there was apparently so little mass resistance to what was going on?

Maybe a good argument for having an armed population that can resist the government...

Who was left to tell their story?
 
You're basically well fed and live in a society which recognises your fundamental right to be considered human - why would you understand it?
I don't expect to. I just wonder how the rest of us would react under similar circumstances. It's likely a largely cultural thing too. I imagine whole societies can be beaten down mentally to the point where resistance is a distant thought.
 
have any links to this research?

As I said, the Forbidden Experiment carried out by the Germans was more accidental than intentional. And it didn't go all the way. More's the pity.

I forget the name of the program...
Shit.
I've tried to scan my memory banks as well as google past conversations, but I can't dig up the name of the program.

I know someone who might remember. I'll get back to you after hearing back.

It was, in a nutshell, a program where the Nazis raised orphans in an environment which they thought would create the uber race. The children were not given love and affection. Competition was their daily fare. Raised by the SS.
But, I can't remember the stinking name!!!!

Argh.
 
I don't expect to. I just wonder how the rest of us would react under similar circumstances....

You'd die still not believing it was actually happening. That's actually how everyone goes in the end.
 
Guantanamo?
What?
Oh, nice place. The terrorists have spacious accomodations and are treated quite nicely.
Really.
Uncle George assures us. And der fuhrer would never lie. The reichstagg really was burned down by those awful jews!!

(Yes. Yes. Hyperbole. Sue me. Still, a disgusting travesty and making inroads.)
 
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