THE BIBLICAL EXODUS ACCOUNT

SetiAlpha6

SetiAlpha6

Come Let Us Reason Together
Valued Senior Member
Hi All,

Just in case you might be interested...

There is a Documentary film coming out very soon that will provide evidence
for the reality of the Exodus account in the Bible...

The film is called "Patterns of Evidence: The Exodus", and it will be
shown in 600+ select theaters across America on Monday, January 19th, 2015.

For one night only.

Check out the website information below if you wish
and see if you might be interested in going.

The home website for the film:
http://www.patternsofevidence.com/en/

General info about the film:
http://www.patternsofevidence.com/en/cast/
https://www.facebook.com/PatternsofEvidence

Where to buy tickets:
http://www.fathomevents.com/event/patterns-of-evidence-the-exodus

With only one showing, it may be a sellout!!!

Just letting you know...

If you are able to see the film then you can come to this thread
and discuss it afterwards if you wish.

Regards,
Seti
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
If you are interested in the subject, here is a link to one review of the film by Dr. Elizabeth Mitchell...

https://answersingenesis.org/reviews/movies/movie-review-patterns-of-evidence-exodus/

Check it out if you want,
Seti
Click to expand...

I'm quite interested in the extent to which the bible account accords with historical evidence. However, I am most definitely NOT interested in visiting creationist websites, for this or anything else.

(Dr Elizabeth Mitchell appears to be a gynaecologist, so I have difficulty seeing what claim to expertise she would have on such a topic.)
 
Remarkable.
The linked page claims "Absence of evidence should not be a deal-killer for faith in the facts as presented in the Bible".
Um, if there's an (admitted) absence of evidence then how can anyone legitimately claim that the Bible presents facts?
 
exchemist said:
I'm quite interested in the extent to which the bible account accords with historical evidence. However, I am most definitely NOT interested in visiting creationist websites, for this or anything else.

(Dr Elizabeth Mitchell appears to be a gynaecologist, so I have difficulty seeing what claim to expertise she would have on such a topic.)
Click to expand...

That is fine...I understand.

The main thing I liked about her review was that she at least tried to explain the claims of the film. What the claims were and what the evidence presented was.

Did you get a chance to see the film?
 
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Dywyddyr said:
Remarkable.
The linked page claims "Absence of evidence should not be a deal-killer for faith in the facts as presented in the Bible".
Um, if there's an (admitted) absence of evidence then how can anyone legitimately claim that the Bible presents facts?
Click to expand...

Yes, I would think that the same would be true of science as well (at least in some areas of study).

What do you think specifically about the evidence presented in the film?

Did you get a chance to see the film?
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
That is fine...I understand.

The main thing I liked about her review was that she at least tried to explain the claims of the film. What the claims were and what the evidence presented was.

Did you get a chance to see the film?
Click to expand...
Any such claims would be fraudulent. There is no evidence whatsoever that the Hebrews (which Hebrews is anybody's guess) were ever held captive in Egypt. The Egyptians did leave historical records but do not even mention any encounter with the Hebrews. The only trace of Hebrew incursion into Egypt are the remains of an enclave on Elephantine Island, unrelated to the events told in the legend.
 
I do not agree. I think there is evidence for the Exodus right now on the Earth.
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
I do not agree. I think there is evidence for the Exodus right now on the Earth.
Click to expand...
The Egyptians left numerous writings. They speak of other nations and other kings but do not mention the Hebrews. There are no Hebrew artifacts found inside Egypt. And yet there are Hebrew artifacts on Elephantine Island.

The Bible legend doesn't even recall which Pharoah was in power, which tells you the tradition is faulty. All of the magic in the legend further invalidates it. There is no period of plague, famine or drought in Egyptian chronicles either. Nor the ending of a dynasty by death of a Pharoah's son, etc.
 
I appreciate your opinion, Aqueous, but I disagree with you on several of your points. And to me, the film provided evidence, some of the very evidence that you say does not exist.
 
I look forward to seeing the film. It's funny how God took away the Pharaoh's free will so that the Jews could be perceived as triumphant victims in the end. Love the hypocrisy of the "master of benevolence". That's why I rebelled in the first place.

Hail Satan.
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
That is fine...I understand.

The main thing I liked about her review was that she at least tried to explain the claims of the film. What the claims were and what the evidence presented was.

Did you get a chance to see the film?
Click to expand...

No, and I won't be seeing it. I get my information from the written word, preferably when it has received favourable commentary from experts in the relevant field. Is this film based on any scholarship and, if so, do you have references to any published research? I'd be interested to read that.

But films, like all visual productions, have a way of wasting a lot of your time and attempting to bamboozle you with images, music etc. I avoid them, at least until I know there is something serious behind it.

By the way, I notice two of the "Writing and Content Advisors" for the film are notorious members of the Discovery Institute, namely Stephen Meyer and David Klinghoffer. This does not bode well.
 
exchemist said:
No, and I won't be seeing it. I get my information from the written word, preferably when it has received favourable commentary from experts in the relevant field. Is this film based on any scholarship and, if so, do you have references to any published research? I'd be interested to read that.

But films, like all visual productions, have a way of wasting a lot of your time and attempting to bamboozle you with images, music etc. I avoid them, at least until I know there is something serious behind it.

By the way, I notice two of the "Writing and Content Advisors" for the film are notorious members of the Discovery Institute, namely Stephen Meyer and David Klinghoffer. This does not bode well.
Click to expand...

Well just in case you are interested. A book by the same name will be available soon. The basic theory presented in the film is that archeologists are right, there is no evidence at all for the Exodus during the reign of Ramses. But there is very real evidence for the presence of the Hebrew people in Egypt a little earlier. And the theory was pretty compelling for me, at least.
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
Well just in case you are interested. A book by the same name will be available soon. The basic theory presented in the film is that archeologists are right, there is no evidence at all for the Exodus during the reign of Ramses. But there is very real evidence for the presence of the Hebrew people in Egypt a little earlier. And the theory was pretty compelling for me, at least.
Click to expand...

Ah OK, thanks for the information. I'll keep a look out for this book and the reviews it gets. (As you can perhaps understand, I'm a bit jaundiced about films involving these Disco 'Tute people, as their last effort was "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed." )

Ironically, it was only this thread of yours that alerted me to the lack of historical evidence for the Exodus story:smile:.
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
If you are interested in the subject, here is a link to one review of the film by Dr. Elizabeth Mitchell...

https://answersingenesis.org/reviews/movies/movie-review-patterns-of-evidence-exodus/

Check it out if you want,
Seti
Click to expand...

Rather against my better judgement I did, after all, take a look at what this gynaecologist has to say about the film. She writes pages and pages on the subject of how the existing existing historical scholarship can be questioned and the supposed importance of Exodus to Christianity etc, but there is not one word about what new evidence the film maker has unearthed. Not a single word!

I'm beginning to wonder how serious an enterprise this is. I can't find any evidence of anybody involved with it who is any sort of authority.
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
But there is very real evidence for the presence of the Hebrew people in Egypt a little earlier.
Click to expand...

That claim is false. It sounds to me like you meant to say "I heard that evidence has been found." And that hearsay is false and misleading.

Any such find would be plastered all over the media and the Creationists would be crowing about it for decades. History books would be in revision. The excavation site would be mapped out by National Geographic. And so on. These things do not escape the watchful eye of science and academia.

The only news relating to the "Israelites" in terms of recent evidence were the discovery of fetishes (statuettes) of the wife of their god, Asherah, the personification of fertility. This corroborates the fact that the Elohim of Gen 1 were the pantheon of Ugarit discovered in the excavation of Ras Shamra.

There are a couple of steles (stone markers with inscriptions) of interest, but none attest to a Hebrew presence in Egypt.

Another thing: literal interpretation of myth, legend and fable violates common sense and the mountains of evidence about how and why cultures invented their gods and their heroic legends of their patriarchs.
 
It's nothing spectacular, just a re-interpretation of existing evidence, which is a perfectly valid method to demonstrate the premise.

Here is what one Reddit user, jonlucc, said:

...The main point was that most Egyptologists put the exodus of Jews from Egypt during the reign of Rameses 2 in the Late Kingdom. He and his favored historians claim that the main evidence for this is where the Bible says that the Semitic slaves built Rameses (the city). He eventually points out that this may have referred to the area known as Rameses at the time of writing, not at the time they were building it. He cites a line from Genesis that refers to Rameses and appears to mean that region, not the city itself. This opens the possibility that the Jews actually built a city called Avaris that is in the same area but is about 400 years earlier, in the Middle Kingdom. He claims that there are buildings with Syrian architecture and the graves of foreigners in the area of Avaris (evidenced by differences in what they had buried with them). They talk about this one house that was Syrian style, then was apparently destroyed and had a larger palace built on top. They strongly suggest that this was the palace of Joseph (as in the guy with the Technicolor coat and fabulous musical numbers) because of the architecture and 12 tombs on the grounds that were for his brothers. One of the tombs is a pyramid with a large statue (bigger than a normal statue) with signs that it was a northerner. He uses this to establish the presence of those people in Egypt in the time of the Middle Kingdom.

The next part he wants to show is that those people became enslaved. They briefly talk about the fact that the bones in the graves suddenly become the bones of starving people. Then they discuss the Brooklyn Manuscript that is a list of the slaves in a particular house and it contains Semitic names. Then they try to show that there was a time in which the pharoah would have ordered the murder of a bunch of infants, and they cite the increase in infant mortality and dead babies in graves as evidence.

Now he's pretty sure there's a bunch of enslaved Jews in Egypt, so he wants to show that God was pissed and punished the Pharoah. He ignores most of the plagues, but he talks about the 10th plague. He doesn't really provide evidence, but he cites the Ipuwer papyrus to show that someone else said basically the same thing. Then should come the parting of the sea, the actual exodus, and settlement in Canaan...
Click to expand...

http://www.reddit.com/r/TrueAtheism/comments/2ppzh9/patterns_of_evidence_exodus/
 
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exchemist said:
Rather against my better judgement I did, after all, take a look at what this gynaecologist has to say about the film. She writes pages and pages on the subject of how the existing existing historical scholarship can be questioned and the supposed importance of Exodus to Christianity etc, but there is not one word about what new evidence the film maker has unearthed. Not a single word!

I'm beginning to wonder how serious an enterprise this is. I can't find any evidence of anybody involved with it who is any sort of authority.
Click to expand...

Here is a list of the main participants in the film...

http://www.patternsofevidence.com/en/cast/

And as best I can tell, they all appear to be represented pretty fairly in the film. Just my opinion.

Seti
 
Aqueous Id said:
That claim is false. It sounds to me like you meant to say "I heard that evidence has been found." And that hearsay is false and misleading.

Any such find would be plastered all over the media and the Creationists would be crowing about it for decades. History books would be in revision. The excavation site would be mapped out by National Geographic. And so on. These things do not escape the watchful eye of science and academia.

The only news relating to the "Israelites" in terms of recent evidence were the discovery of fetishes (statuettes) of the wife of their god, Asherah, the personification of fertility. This corroborates the fact that the Elohim of Gen 1 were the pantheon of Ugarit discovered in the excavation of Ras Shamra.

There are a couple of steles (stone markers with inscriptions) of interest, but none attest to a Hebrew presence in Egypt.

Another thing: literal interpretation of myth, legend and fable violates common sense and the mountains of evidence about how and why cultures invented their gods and their heroic legends of their patriarchs.
Click to expand...

Well, personally, I think the evidence discussed in the film is real. I did not intend to say anything other than that. Whether or not you think it is real evidence and worthy of consideration, is completely up to you. The film itself flat out tells people to decide for themselves. And I did exactly that.
 
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