See, now this is a good attitude to have.
Heaven is real, says neurosurgeon
- Thread starter arauca
- Start date
Rhaedas, what part of "blood drained from brain and cooled to 15 Celsius" are you not getting? The whole point of this part of the surgery was to prevent any brain activity in the brain because they were going to operate on the brain stem. You must have watched too many zombie apocalypse movies to think that the brain can still operate properly without blood and cold to the touch. NDE experiences are very coordinated high level processes: "OMG I'm floating!" "Look at that nifty saw, it looks more like a drill then a saw." "Well, I'm outa here, life sucked anyway." "Hey, it's grandma and grandma! Aren't you dead? Hey, so am I!" "Wow, it's an angel!" "But I don't wanna go back!" "Hey, you kicked me back into my body! No fair. Ouch! Ouch! It's hurts being alive!"
All of these experiences were reported while the brain was specifically being prevented from having brain activity? That's a bit of a stretch to call it a hallucination or a dream when your brain is deactivated.
Dreams are usually a sequence of uncoordinated events that don't have any logic to them. NDE's are different. NDE's are a coordinated set of experiences with a theme: I'm floating, I'm leaving this world, Hi dead family, Hi angels, I don't wanna go back, OK, I'll go back.
But dreams are totally uncoordinated. I've had dreams of being in school (high school or kindergarten), then trying to go home, but I can't find my house because I don't remember where I live; crazy illogical stuff like that. NDE's are not dreams.
What you just said seems to be entirely true.
However, I did not say that it was "dreaming."
Dreaming is something you may do when in R.E.M. sleep, which is an entirely different set of circumstances than someone, say, having a heart attack.
Exactly! When you're having a heart attack, the afterlife welcoming party shows up, just in case you don't make it. It seems perfectly normal to me.
Really? Just in case? The Omnipotent God does not know?
Man, what a let down that must be- to be standing there in Heavenly Bliss, finally greeting Joe Schmoe, telling him about how much fun it's going to be and suddenly
FWOOP!
Joe's butt get's sucked out and spat back on Earth,
Poor folks in heaven would be standing there aghast muttering, "I didn't even get to say goodbye..."
I dunno, I'd find the whole thing slightly easier to consider if everyone that scooted over next to death got a glimpse of Heaven or Hell. That very few do is far more suggestive of a physiological response.
Anybody (other than me) old enough to remember the white dot in the middle of the screen AFTER turning the TV off? It took a long time - even after being unplugged - for that CRT to discharge. For some odd reason I get that image in my mind when reading about NDEs. Just saying...
Why?
In the video, out of 300 cardiac arrest patients, 44 of them had NDE experiences. Those are pretty high numbers.
Newsflash! People near death have near death experiences! :bugeye:
Just made my day...good one! :bravo:
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
You can't have any experiences if the brain doesn't work. These surgical process don't kill the brain.
Nothing wrong with research, that's how we learn more. And I don't know enough about brain functions to say if the brain is "off" in such a procedure or not. I'm just offering some suggestions based in reality of what we do understand. The claim here is that NDE is something other than a brain manufactured sequence. So it's up to the ones making that claim to provide some hard evidence to give backing to that claim. I don't have to provide proof that the brain can make up things that don't happen, we know that happens, every night to most people. Which is why I think having outside tests that can't be confused with things happening within the senses of the person is an important focus.
Mazulu, do you have some source that explains exactly how much brain activity is stopped from such a procedure? I would presume it's a very short time, as even a such a temperature there can still be brain damage from the lack of oxygen, and complete shutdown would be questionable. How do you insure the restarting of a brain? Shock it, like a heart? It's not a muscle. I honestly don't know, just wondering.
I'm probably going to do some research on this subject. Apparently, there is a lot of NDE research out there.
From what I understand about cardiac arrest, when the heart stops it stops pumping blood. The brain doesn't get blood which it needs to work, so it shuts off. Beyond that, I'm not an expert on physiology. In the case of this women's brain operation, she had an anyrism in her brain stem. The operation to drain the blood is extremely difficult. For that reason alone, I am sure her brain had to remain cooled for a very long time. They cool it to mimimize cellular damage. It's a trade off: do you want to risk a little bit of brain damage? Or do you want to die?
When the brain starts getting oxygen and blood flow again, I assume it comes online on its own. You don't have to shock it. So the real issue is: why are people having NDE experiences when their brains have flat EKG's? Is it because they have a soul? Or is there a physiological reason?
So then brain transplants should be possible then? hmmm?
The whole soul issue is a separate but related thing. I don't think there's a soul, I think the self is a product of the way the brain's connections function, and we see this in brain damage and various stimuli to the brain. We even have begun to map out common parts of the brain where their loss, inactivity, or overactivity does affect the person's self. If there was a separate soul, then this wouldn't make sense, unless the soul is itself divided, but being an obviously immaterial thing (which is yet another issue), it shouldn't be tied to the brain's functional losses.
Actually, whether or not a brain transplant is possible really depends upon the skill of the surgeon. As for the soul, I dunno. It would be a shame to go through all of the hassle of a brain transplant and then not get the body you wanted.