11000 scientists warn re climate change

billvon said:
My wife is a doctor. But she is also a skydiver and a parachute rigger, and her current occupation is rigger. Does that make her not a doctor? If they had a list of doctors and had her included, would that make it false?
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It would be valid to know that, at the time of the signing, that she wasn't a practicing physician and maybe not a licensed physician or one presently qualified to practice in your current location.

There are a lot of people (for example) that went to law school but they don't practice law so they aren't lawyers.

It just depends on what the expectations are from signing such a list. If it's to be a practicing climate scientist of some sort, just having a biology degree (for example) would be misleading.
 
Seattle said:
It would be valid to know that, at the time of the signing, that she wasn't a practicing physician and maybe not a licensed physician or one presently qualified to practice in your current location.
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Sure, that could well be valid to know. But is she a doctor? If someone asked her to sign a petition collecting opinions of doctors, would it be appropriate for her to sign it?
 
billvon said:
Sure, that could well be valid to know. But is she a doctor? If someone asked her to sign a petition collecting opinions of doctors, would it be appropriate for her to sign it?
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Given the gravity of the letter/statement that she is signing too, I think the issue of political correctness is unimportant.
If I were an MD that applied scientific methods daily I would consider myself to be eligible and morally obligated to sign.
As it will be the extremely grave predicted situation for my patients that would be my main concern.

Gotta put it in context....
What does the statement they all signed up to actually say? ( rhetorical)
 
From:
https://ama.com.au/media/climate-change-health-emergency
03 Sep 2019

The AMA has joined other health organisations around the world – including the American Medical Association, the British Medical Association, and Doctors for the Environment Australia – in recognising climate change as a health emergency.

At its August meeting in Canberra, the AMA Federal Council declared that climate change is real and will have the earliest and most severe health consequences on vulnerable populations around the world, including in Australia and the Pacific region.

The Federal Council Motion reads:

The Federal Council recognises climate change as a health emergency, with clear scientific evidence indicating severe impacts for our patients and communities now and into the future. The AMA commits to working with government agencies and other organisations to prioritise actions in line with the AMA’s 2015 Position Statement on Climate Change and Human Health.​
 
billvon said:
Sure, that could well be valid to know. But is she a doctor? If someone asked her to sign a petition collecting opinions of doctors, would it be appropriate for her to sign it?
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I don't know. If she is a witch doctor it could be misleading. She isn't a witch doctor is she?
 
https://spaceweatherarchive.com/2018/03/05/the-worsening-cosmic-ray-situation/

crshower2_nasa.jpg

March 5, 2018 / Dr.Tony Phillips
March 5, 2018: Cosmic rays are bad–and they’re getting worse.

That’s the conclusion of a new paper just published in the research journal Space Weather. The authors, led by Prof. Nathan Schwadron of the University of New Hampshire, show that radiation from deep space is dangerous and intensifying faster than previously expected.
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sculptor said:
whenever the solar output wanes, the heliosphere weakens and contracts and we get more cosmic rays coming into the inner solar system.

some scientists think that we might see a colder sun(lower output) in the near future
which may make for more cosmic rays
which may make for more clouds

???
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i have not stuck my mind intot he various layers of the atmosphere and how it allows or prevents cosmic rays.
cosmic rays are simply sun radiation
it is highly unlikely that the atmosphere is capable of creating an atmosphere that is livable that reflects a majority of the suns radiation.

while some parts are reflective to some point
there is a heating effect that is a majority process.
that majority process or over all heating, is compounded by the increasing heat of the ocean and human heating via fires, methane & Co2.

the sun getting colder...
Verses solar minimums ...

question !
when you say sun getting colder, do you mean in a few million years ?

or
when you say sun getting colder
you mean solar minimum ?

because we are currently going through a solar minimum
which is just pure luck for the human species.

once that finishes
shit is going to get super real super fast

high altitude chem trails ?
im not sure they can help
can they develop something that can maybe bond to methane in the upper atmosphere ?
that would be great
though it wont prevent over all global warming as we continue to increase the burning of fossil fuels.

china & india are only going to increase their use of fossil fuels, and as africa comes online and on the rare and unlikely chance Afghanistan, iraq egypt & iran become a civilized place to live
they too will start to massively accelerate the creation of Co2 and other warming activities.

Africa are really starting to get their shit together
hopefully some new tech infrastructure can start to be created to produce low impact infrastructure.
im not going to get right into that stuff.

soo on top of this is the melting sea ice and the melting perma frost which is expected to start to release massive mind bendingly huge methane sinks
or megga sinks of methane.
this is a crowd stopper for global warming
that's just a cross ya fingers and hope it doesn't thing(if you believe in a god, pray that wont happen)

SOooo ..
here we are at a solar minimum
what is it doing ?
less flare ?
potentially a little less heat
however.
a lot more radiation which in turn heats up the earth(including the sea)
what it appears to look like is during a solar minimum large holes are created in the suns magnetic field releasing more solar wind
this solar wind is highly charged and heats the earth like a microwave oven
it also disrupts radio and electrical systems if its really big

NOW...
we have the question
is a solar minimum going to cool the earth ?
no
absolutely not
it potentially has the opposite effect
if i earned better money i could devote time to researching the subject.
i cant see that happening for at least another year or two(fingers crossed)

nasa (bit old unfortunately, more so since they have got the solar telescopes up and running now)
Published: Jun 27, 2017
https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/news-articles/solar-minimum-is-coming



Considering we are a water planet, the ocean is key to creating the atmosphere and livable zones that 70% of the species and around 80% of all technology and citys rely on staying exactly as it is now.

thats not going to happen.

now we get to an exponential seriously bad effect that is simply not factored by the majority and certainly well outside the comprehension of any climate change deniers.
if the worlds ocean run into low oxygen, we are well and truly fucked

Climate change: Oceans running out of oxygen as temperatures rise
By Matt McGrath Environment correspondent, Madrid
  • 7 December 2019
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-50690995

Climate change and nutrient pollution are driving the oxygen from our oceans, and threatening many species of fish.

That's the conclusion of the biggest study of its kind, undertaken by conservation group IUCN.

While nutrient run-off has been known for decades, researchers say that climate change is making the lack of oxygen worse.

Around 700 ocean sites are now suffering from low oxygen, compared with 45 in the 1960s.

Researchers say the depletion is threatening species including tuna, marlin and sharks.

The threat to oceans from nutrient run-off of chemicals such as nitrogen and phosphorus from farms and industry has long been known to impact the levels of oxygen in the sea waters and still remains the primary factor, especially closer to coasts.
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sculptor said:
heliosphere
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this is pretty hard core specialist physics
however...
i gues the question is "is density proportional to the size ?"
i doubt it as it is a production based outward moving process
is the heliosphere going to shrink so it does not cover the earth ?
good question
space is a vacuum


The heliosphere is the vast, bubble-like region of space which surrounds and is created by the Sun. In plasma physics terms, this is the cavity formed by the Sun in the surrounding interstellar medium. The "bubble" of the heliosphere is continuously "inflated" by plasma originating from the Sun, known as the solar wind. Outside the heliosphere, this solar plasma gives way to the interstellar plasma permeating our galaxy. Radiation levels inside and outside the heliosphere differ; in particular, the galactic cosmic rays are less abundant inside the heliosphere, so that the planets inside (including Earth) are partly shielded from their impact.
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1280px-PIA17046_-_Voyager_1_Goes_Interstellar.jpg


sculptor said:
which may make for more clouds
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clouds are created from water

will more cosmic rays create more clouds ?

how are clouds created ?

so it is relatively simple yet quite complex
something of an atmospheric physics question around radiation effecting the electrical condensation processes.

this is your question ?
a (particle) physicist would be the right person to answer this
 
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The solar minimum is predicted to be a minor factor, globally:
https://www.almanac.com/news/astronomy/astronomy/solar-minimum-approaching-mini-ice-age
However, if we do have a “Maunder Minimum,” it would not be a return to the “Little Ice Age.” Solar radiation expert Judith Lean, PhD, of the Naval Research Laboratory points to a current global surface temperature that’s about 1.8 degrees Fahrenheit, warmer than at the time of the Maunder Minimum and says that a return to a Maunder Minimum phenomenon would lead to a cooling by only one-tenth of a degree C or 0.18 degree F.
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https://www.carbonbrief.org/solar-m...-and-us-but-would-not-hold-off-climate-change
One of these occurred between 1645 and 1715, when the Sun went through a prolonged spell of low solar activity, known as the Maunder Minimum. This didn’t have much of an effect on global climate, but it was linked to a number of very cold winters in Europe.

While the impacts of a solar minimum are small on a global scale, they can be larger for specific regions, the paper finds.
- - - -
You can see in the top map of the figure below that climate change is likely to cause a large decrease in frost days across the northern hemisphere winter. But as the second and third maps show, a solar minimum could add another five days of frost per year in much of Europe and the US.
- - -
For Europe, specifically, the study finds the solar minimum could knock 0.4-0.8C off a projected winter temperature rise of 6.6C, under RCP8.5 and relative to 1971-2000.

Shifting of the storm track across the Atlantic Ocean would also mean less rainfall coming to northern Europe in winter, the study says, slightly reducing the increases projected under climate change.
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So the likeliest consequence of an extended solar minimum is a combination of rapid and disastrous warming globally, and more severe winters than otherwise locally in Europe and North America.

So bad winters and global warming disaster, both, for northern Europeans and Americans.

Plus extra cosmic radiation - the AGW convection changes appear to be thinning the temperate latitude's ozone layer just as the weakening solar field protection faces an increase in the deep space radiation flux hitting the planet.
 
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/05/190528140115.htm

A warming Arctic produces weather extremes in our latitudes
Date:
May 28, 2019
Source:
Alfred Wegener Institute, Helmholtz Centre for Polar and Marine Research
Summary:
Atmospheric researchers at the Alfred Wegener Institute, Helmholtz Centre for Polar and Marine Research (AWI) have now developed a climate model that can accurately depict the frequently observed winding course of the jet stream, a major air current over the Northern Hemisphere.



Atmospheric researchers at the Alfred Wegener Institute, Helmholtz Centre for Polar and Marine Research (AWI) have now developed a climate model that can accurately depict the frequently observed winding course of the jet stream, a major air current over the Northern Hemisphere. The breakthrough came when the scientists combined their global climate model with a new machine learning algorithm on ozone chemistry. Using their new combo-model, they can now show that the jet stream's wavelike course in winter and subsequent extreme weather conditions cold air outbreaks in Central Europe and North America are the direct result of climate change. Their findings were released in the Nature online portal Scientific Reports on 28 May 2019.


These winds whip around the planet at an altitude of roughly 10 kilometres, are driven by temperature differences between the tropics and the Arctic, and in the past, often reached top speeds of up to 500 kilometres per hour.
But these days, as observations confirm, the winds are increasingly faltering. They less often blow along a straight course parallel to the Equator; instead, they sweep across the Northern Hemisphere in massive waves. In turn, during the winter these waves produce unusual intrusions of cold air from the Arctic into the middle latitudes -- like the extreme cold that struck the Midwest of the USA in late January 2019. In the summer, a weakened jet stream leads to prolonged heat waves and dry conditions, like those experienced in Europe in e.g. 2003, 2006, 2015 and 2018.



Machine learning allows climate model to grasp the role of ozone


These fundamental connections have been known for some time. Nevertheless, researchers hadn't succeeded in realistically portraying the jet stream's wavering course in climate models or demonstrating a connection between the faltering winds and global climate change. Atmospheric researchers at the AWI in Potsdam have now passed that hurdle by supplementing their global climate model with an innovative component for ozone chemistry. "We've developed a machine learning algorithm that allows us to represent the ozone layer as an interactive element in the model, and in so doing, to reflect the interactions from the stratosphere and ozone layer," says first author and AWI atmospheric researcher Erik Romanowsky. "With the new model system we can now realistically reproduce the observed changes in the jet stream."


The weakened jet stream is due to climate change

"In addition, with the new model the researchers can also more closely analyse the causes of the meandering jet stream. "Our study shows that the changes in the jet stream are at least partly due to the loss of Arctic sea ice. If the ice cover continues to dwindle, we believe that both the frequency and intensity of the extreme weather events previously observed in the middle latitudes will increase," says Prof Markus Rex, Head of Atmospheric Research at the AWI. "In addition, our findings confirm that the more frequently occurring cold phases in winter in the USA, Europe and Asia are by no means a contradiction to global warming; rather, they are a part of anthropogenic climate change."
 
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