Oh come on!
Where'd you get such an idea?
Probably from the confidence with which you speak.
Oh come on!
Where'd you get such an idea?
Certainly, true by definition, but it gets quite complex, before the Jews decided to simplify it with the One great god idea:A demigod is still subservient and inferior to God.
Then he owes me an apology for lying.
As do you.
If we're going to play that game, you should probably worry about how you misrepresent arguments before you go around chastising others.
Essentially, Plato asked the question: are things right and wrong just because God says so, or are they right and wrong independent of God? If they are right and wrong just because God says so, then God could arbitrarily decree that, for example, murder is good and looking after your children is evil. On the other hand, if God says murder is wrong because it is, then the wrongness of murder exists independently of God's commands, and therefore morality does not derive from God.
A demigod is still subservient and inferior to God.
God is the one defined as having set all the rules to begin with. Ie. God as defined in much of Christianity, Islam, Hinduism; God as the Father, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the First Cause, the Beneficiary of All Sacrifices, the Benefactor of All, the One Without Whom Not a Blade of Grass Can move.
Plato's argument works well with gods - ie., demigods - like Zeus and Thor, beings which were never defined as having set all the rules to begin with, as they are derivative, contingent beings (as opposed to God, who is self-sufficient).
It is probably physics blasphemy to say this, but cosmologists NEED God for the simple reason that there was no per-existing universe before the big bang. only nothingness. Then, bang! Everything sprang into existence. It is atheist logic to thing that universes just pop into existence for no reason. I'm not buying it.
Certainly, true by definition, but it gets quite complex, before the Jews decided to simplify it with the One great god idea:
The ancient Greeks believed that our world began with a shapeless and confused mass of elements. They called it Chaos. From Chaos, Nyx (Night), Erebus (Darkness), and Gaea (Earth) were born. Then, slowly, more things began to appear. For example, Nyx and Erebus jointly created Hypnos (Sleep), Thanatos (Death), and Moros (Doom). And Gaea made Uranus (Sky).
2 Gaea and Uranus together were the parents of many children. The twelve Titans -- six sons and six daughters -- were their parents' pride and joy. After the twelve Titans, Gaea gave birth to two sets of triplets, all sons. Brontes, Steropes, and Arges were from the first set. Each had only one eye in the middle of his forehead. Collectively, they were known as the Cyclopes. Briareus, Cottus, and Gyges were from the second set. Each had one hundred arms and fifty heads. Collectively, they were known as the Hecatonchires.
3 Gaea loved all her children equally. But Uranus did not. He favored only the Titans, for they were good-looking gods and goddesses. As he grew increasingly uncomfortable with his other children, he decided to cast them away. When Gaea heard of the plan, she was horrified. She tried to reason with her husband, but to no avail. Helplessly, she watched Uranus throw the Cyclopes and the Hecatonchires into Tartarus, the darkest pit in the underworld. She was mortified. She vowed that she would never forgive Uranus for his cruelty.
4 To rescue her children, Gaea made a sickle and presented the weapon to her six Titan sons. She urged them to use it to overthrow their father. Fear took hold of five of the Titans. The mere idea of standing up to Uranus made them tremble. So they refused. Only Cronus, the youngest and the strongest, took pity on his mother. He promised her that he would defeat Uranus and free his brothers. True to his words, he picked up the sickle and went after his father. Scared by the threat, Uranus fled and gave up his powers. Cronus occupied the now vacated throne. He became the new lord of the universe. ...
Balerion,
I'll let him respond to that. I have no idea what you're claiming he lied about.
Excuse me?
What did I lie about?
This particular chastisement was just me passing on a complaint I received from somebody else. I thought that instead of giving you an official warning, I would see if you would be decent about it. Apparently, you won't do that. Ho hum.
If you have specific allegations regarding my misrepresentations of arguments, I'd prefer you put them to me directly. Don't pussyfoot around. Tell me what your complaint is.
Sorry. My mistake. For some reason I thought that was sarcasm.
Was it, in fact, a kind of apology to Jan after all?
Ie. things are right or wrong "just because God says so." Morality derives from God, because God set the rules to begin with, since God is the First Cause etc..
But things are not right or wrong just because Zeus says so. Morality does not derive from Zeus, because Zeus didn't set the rules to begin with, since he isn't the First Cause etc..
That people ALWAYS create their gods, not the other way around.What's your point? ...
Then morality is arbitrary.
Zeus was the supreme god in the Greek pantheon. They didn't have any "higher" god than Zeus. So I'm puzzled as to why you'd call him a demi-god.
That people ALWAYS create their gods, not the other way around.
BTW, visit my post again - it is still growing with pictures. It is here: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread...ce-believers&p=3118439&viewfull=1#post3118439
Yes, pretty much.
I've addressed this at the beginning of the thread.
Hehe. I don't know. Maybe "modern Buddhism," given that much modern Buddhism is so opposed to traditional Buddhism.
Can an atheist convert to religion then? (I was going to say to Christianity but I not sure what wynn is)
It would need a miracle really.
Can an atheist convert to religion then? (I was going to say to Christianity but I not sure what wynn is)
It would need a miracle really.
Like if Jan raised someone from the grave they might.
You are correct. "Always" is too strong.This is an untestable claim.
I. e. In the alternate POV Sky (Uranu) was born of space - the aether, which earlier in physic was the medium for light to propagate in, in vacuum.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranus_(mythology)"Uranus or Father Sky was the son and husband of Gaia, Mother Earth. According to Hesiod's Theogony, Uranus was conceived by Gaia alone, but other sources cite Aether as his father.[3] Uranus and Gaia were the parents of the first generation of Titans, and the ancestors of most of the Greek gods, but no cult addressed directly to Uranus survived into Classical times. ...
me said:Then morality is arbitrary.
Only if you think of God as an abstract not particularly powerful force, ie. a demigod, or as someone who is per default set against humanity.
Zeus had parents, he was a contingent, dependent being. Surely, a very powerful one, but contingent nevertheless. Never is he called "The source of all other beings" or anything to that effect.
No. I'm assuming God is an all-powerful deity here, not a demigod. Make him as powerful if you want. If right and wrong, good and evil are only what he says they are, then they are defined by his arbitrary whims.
No. I'm assuming God is an all-powerful deity here, not a demigod. Make him as powerful if you want. If right and wrong, good and evil are only what he says they are, then they are defined by his arbitrary whims.