Believing in an afterlife

[davewhite04]

Religion wasn't gifted to us from a divine source,

How do you know?

religion arose out of the imagination and desires of humans. And part of that desire is wishing your loved ones were still around somewhere.

Yes, religion came first.

Think about it theist! Religion, spirituality and plain old superstition arose from a desire to explain the unknown.

We don't know that.

 

[davewhite04]

Bear in mind that one of the oldest religions on earth, Hinduism, doesn't even posit an afterlife. It believes in reincarnation in which one simple returns to this world over and over. So there is no necessary linkage between believing in an afterlife and believing in a god.

Hindus have thousands of gods.

 

[DaveC426913]

Religion, spirituality and plain old superstition arose from a desire to explain the unknown.

Yes, religion came first.

Really? Religion is an organized, encoded belief system.

How do you figure an organized, encoded belief system could arise prior to unorganized, personal, individual beliefs - from people who barely had language to spread their ideas, let alone writing?

How do you know?
We don't know that.

Huh. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, suddenly you're all about "we don't have enough information to draw conclusions!"

 

[davewhite04]

Really? Religion is an organized, encoded belief system.

I responded to someone who referred to his answer as religion. Who cares if it's religious belief or religion, you're just picking up on anything to get the last word.

Huh. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, suddenly you're all about "we don't have enough information to draw conclusions!"

What I responded to has no scientific evidence it was simply an assumption at best, a guess at worse.

 

[davewhite04]

double post

 

[foghorn]

Archaeology is what I'm referring to. A social science.

And, with this social science ancient texts and pictures are interpreted by the modern human mind and not by the laws of physics.
You may have more ancient texts showing the idea of an afterlife is religious, but what have you got that shows the actual origin of the idea was religious?

 

[davewhite04]

....but what have you got that shows the actual origin of the idea was religious?

I'm fighting a losing battle. You can't know. If they did believe in a none theistic afterlife, how would we know?

So, we don't know is the answer.

 

[foghorn]

I'm fighting a losing battle. You can't know. If they did believe in a none theistic afterlife, how would we know? So, we don't know is the answer.

I'm not the one saying the pre-ancients could ONLY believe in a higher power afterlive.
I don't care if the pre-ancients did believe in a non-deity afterlife, because how would we know if they did or not?
Beliefs dressed as 'facts', then mixed with philosophy gets you houses built on sand.

 

[davewhite04]

I'm not the one saying the pre-ancients could ONLY believe in a higher power afterlive.
I don't care if the pre-ancients did believe in a non-deity afterlife, because how would we know if they did or not?
Beliefs dressed as 'facts', then mixed with philosophy gets you houses built on sand.

We don't know. The fact is is there has been found idols of worship from 10s thousands of years ago, a tin god(archaeology which is a science, not sure why you compared it to physics) found in India springs to mind. There is no evidence for worship without deity.

That is why I talked about facts.

 

[Zero Point Native]

It's impossible to provide scientific proof of a so-called "afterlife" because those realities exist on a frequency that is way beyond the capability of our current technology to measure them.

 

[davewhite04]

It's impossible to provide scientific proof of a so-called "afterlife" because those realities exist on a frequency that is way beyond the capability of our current technology to measure them.

The question isn't does the afterlife exist, OP is do you believe in an afterlife.

EDIT: If you're referring to my scientific proof, it is the discovery(archaeology) of idols that the ancients had to believe in an afterlife.

 

[Zero Point Native]

OP is do you believe in an afterlife.

No, I don't.

 

[foghorn]

We don't know. The fact is is there has been found idols of worship from 10s thousands of years ago, a tin god(archaeology which is a science, not sure why you compared it to physics) found in India springs to mind. There is no evidence for worship without deity. That is why I talked about facts.

The whole point was to prove that afterlife belief went hand in hand with a divine belief.

"to prove that afterlife belief went hand in hand with a divine belief"
You now admit you have no knowledge of pre-ancient ideas of afterlife and the origins of their ideas:

You can't know. If they did believe in a none theistic afterlife, how would we know? So, we don't know is the answer.

 

[davewhite04]

"to prove that afterlife belief went hand in hand with a divine belief"
You now admit you have no knowledge of pre-ancient ideas of afterlife and the origins of their ideas:

We don't know if "pre-ancient" beings had a divine belief or not.

 

[foghorn]

We don't know if "pre-ancient" beings had a divine belief or not.

And:

You can't know. If they did believe in a none theistic afterlife, how would we know? So, we don't know is the answer.

You made the point: "The whole point was to prove"

The whole point was to prove that afterlife belief went hand in hand with a divine belief

Now, you have admitted that you can't show if the pre-ancients had a non-deity idea of an afterlife.
So, you haven't 'proven' the 'point'.

 

[gmilam]

How do you know?

Because there would only be one and it wouldn't need to "mature". A perfect God would've gotten it right the first time.

 

[davewhite04]

Because there would only be one and it wouldn't need to "mature". A perfect God would've gotten it right the first time.

What is perfect in this context? or rather "gotten it right"

 

[davewhite04]

And:

You made the point: "The whole point was to prove"

Now, you have admitted that you can't show if the pre-ancients had a non-deity idea of an afterlife.
So, you haven't 'proven' the 'point'.

I implied that as far back as we can tell, the afterlife seemed to be related to a divine being(s).

There isn't any evidence to suggest that the "pre ancients" believed in an afterlife.

 

[foghorn]

I implied that as far back as we can tell, the afterlife seemed to be related to a divine being(s).
There isn't any evidence to suggest that the "pre ancients" believed in an afterlife.

And, it does not rule out the idea the pre ancients may have had a non deity afterlife belief? (Black swans)

 

[davewhite04]

And, it does not rule out the idea the pre ancients may have had a non deity afterlife belief? (Black swans)

Do you rule out Jesus' resurrection?