Blame The Russians?

Are the Russians to blame for Trump's victor?

  • Yeah, they rule everything, including political choices.

    Votes: 2 20.0%

  • They hacked the DNC and showed us the truth. Yes, they are to blame.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • They played a role, somehow, some way, we just know it.

    Votes: 2 20.0%

  • No, they are simply political victims of the Democratic Party blame game.

    Votes: 1 10.0%

  • They played no role and are having a good laugh at our politics and media

    Votes: 5 50.0%
  • Total voters
    10
Bowser

Bowser

Namaste
Valued Senior Member
All this talk about Russian involvement (hacking) in our election really does show the lack of humility on the part of the Democratic Party and the Media. If not for the potential of creating a new conflict, I would probably just shrug it off and give it a laugh, but these fools are chasing this myth at full speed. Look at the evidence, there is none. It's a conspiracy theory that diverts attention from the failures of the Democrats.

Even if the Russians had hacked the DNC, should we not be thankful, now knowing the corruption within the Democratic organization? If it should ever be proved, I will personally send a thank you note to Putin for doing what no American journalist ever would.

Hold on for the near future. I don't put it past Obama and Hillary to entrap us in a war before Trump assumes office, but I hope to be proven wrong.
 
Bowser said:
All this talk about Russian involvement (hacking) in our election really does show the lack of humility on the part of the Democratic Party and the Media. If not for the potential of creating a new conflict, I would probably just shrug it off and give it a laugh, but these fools are chasing this myth at full speed. Look at the evidence, there is none. It's a conspiracy theory that diverts attention from the failures of the Democrats.
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No evidence? Are you a little crazy?

Even if the Russians had hacked the DNC, should we not be thankful, now knowing the corruption within the Democratic organization? If it should ever be proved, I will personally send a thank you note to Putin for doing what no American journalist ever would.
Click to expand...
We should be happy that a foreign government tried to influence our election? Are you a little crazy?

Hold on for the near future. I don't put it past Obama and Hillary to entrap us in a war before Trump assumes office, but I hope to be proven wrong.
Click to expand...
You are a little crazy. I am going to go out on a limb here; Obama will not start a war... By the way Hillary won't start one either, she is not even in the government.

The term deplorable comes to mind.
 
Wow, those poll options don't show a bias at all ... nope, not at all... [/s]

The simple fact is, we know they did something. We don't know the full extent of it (well, the US intelligence agencies might, but they are playing it awful quiet right now). We also know that Obama wanted to go public with this right away, but decided to "play it nice" because of the upcoming election out of respect and a fear of appearing to be trying to sway the election using underhanded tactics (something I say he should have just done, given how poorly reported and biased our media is currently... better to just get it all out there but *shrug*)

The fact that there was influence and meddling from a hostile, outside force, in and of itself, regardless of extent, should be enough to cause concern.
 
It seems most likely that the emails were leaked, not hacked. Our intelligence community spies on everyone, 'friends" and "enemies" alike, so with simple projection, our spy agencies assume that everyone is spying on us.
And, they are often wrong(wmd, etc...).
 
Kittamaru said:
Wow, those poll options don't show a bias at all ... nope, not at all... [/s]

The simple fact is, we know they did something. We don't know the full extent of it (well, the US intelligence agencies might, but they are playing it awful quiet right now). We also know that Obama wanted to go public with this right away, but decided to "play it nice" because of the upcoming election out of respect and a fear of appearing to be trying to sway the election using underhanded tactics (something I say he should have just done, given how poorly reported and biased our media is currently... better to just get it all out there but *shrug*)

The fact that there was influence and meddling from a hostile, outside force, in and of itself, regardless of extent, should be enough to cause concern.
Click to expand...

We (the dumb ass public) know squat about any hacking or "....fact that there was influence..." relating to the election.

Australia has a working visa called a 457 which allows persons with skills lacking in Australia to come and work here.

If you don't want Trump I will try to arrange a 457 for him.

But you have to promise to take our Prime Minister and give him a green card.

Humpty Dumpty deal maker.
 
sculptor said:
It seems most likely that the emails were leaked, not hacked. Our intelligence community spies on everyone, 'friends" and "enemies" alike, so with simple projection, our spy agencies assume that everyone is spying on us.
And, they are often wrong(wmd, etc...).
Click to expand...

The whole WMD thing... unfortunately, we will never know the full truth there; was there ACTUALLY intelligence that they existed... or was that fabricated to give Bouncing Baby Bush a reason to in and finish what his daddy started...
 
sculptor said:
It seems most likely that the emails were leaked, not hacked. Our intelligence community spies on everyone, 'friends" and "enemies" alike, so with simple projection, our spy agencies assume that everyone is spying on us.
And, they are often wrong(wmd, etc...).
Click to expand...
And who do you think leaked them if they weren't hacked? Do you think John Podesta leaked his own emails? Where is the evidence to support that one?

It's always amazing to see how far people will go attempting to rationalize their irrational biases - attempting to rationalize the irrational and blatantly false.

Yes, spy agencies spy on each other, but what does that have to do with the fact Russians illegally hacked and leaked the hacked materials? What does that have to do with the fact the Republican candidate, The Donald, called upon Russia to release the hacked documents?

Two, the people who got WMD wrong are gone. They've been gone for 8 years now...oops. So for you to equate the current intelligence community with the George Jr. intelligence community is just plain wrong on a number of fronts. The intelligence community rank and file told George Jr. there was no evidence of WMD, George Jr. and his appointees decided to ignore it. Because that wasn't the answer they wanted. The George Jr. administration even went so far as to out a CIA agent in order to cover up the administration's manipulation of the intelligence, and which ultimately led to the conviction of a top White House aid, Scooter Libby, for obstruction of justice and making false statements.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerie_Plame

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_C._Wilson

The fact is all of America's intelligence agencies and private agencies found Russia illegally intervened in our election process and hacked the servers of Democrats. This is Watergate stuff and very analogous to what Nixon, a Republican, did in the 70s when Republican operatives broke into Democratic Party offices and ultimately led to his resignation. But now it doesn't matter to Republicans, back then it did. That's evidence of how far the Republican Party has fallen. Back then, at least the Republican Party could tell the difference between right and wrong. Back then the Republican Party put the interests of the nation above the interests of the party. Unfortunately, -Sieg Heil - that's not the case today. The modern Republican Party has no moral backbone. It's only allegiance is to the party, and that should be a problem for all Americans.
 
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Bowser said:
All this talk about Russian involvement (hacking) in our election really does show the lack of humility on the part of the Democratic Party and the Media. If not for the potential of creating a new conflict, I would probably just shrug it off and give it a laugh, but these fools are chasing this myth at full speed. Look at the evidence, there is none. It's a conspiracy theory that diverts attention from the failures of the Democrats.

Even if the Russians had hacked the DNC, should we not be thankful, now knowing the corruption within the Democratic organization? If it should ever be proved, I will personally send a thank you note to Putin for doing what no American journalist ever would.

Hold on for the near future. I don't put it past Obama and Hillary to entrap us in a war before Trump assumes office, but I hope to be proven wrong.
Click to expand...
The Russians did hack the servers of both parties. Isn't this a problem? They didn't hack the actual voting process, no one is claiming that. What if the Republicans decide to do something Putin doesn't like?

Trump is the one getting us into a war with China. Wake the fuck up.
 
Here is the the thing, the Senate majority leader says he wants to investigate the hacking. But he doesn't want to investigate it that much, because he opposes a select committee to investigate the hacking. Now the odd thing about that is Republicans had absolutely no problems with a select committee to investigate Hillary Clinton.

PS: The poll in this thread kind of reminds me of a Russian ballot. There really is only one option, Democrats are bad. Well, at least it's worth a good laugh. The sad part is most right wingers can see none of this nor do they want to, all they see are their delusions as evidenced by their posts.
 
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Bowser said:
All this talk about Russian involvement (hacking) in our election really does show the lack of humility on the part of the Democratic Party and the Media.
Click to expand...
And all this denial by the right wing shows that they will whine and cry about anything. They won the election, and still all you see are these whines about how unfair it is that the US is investigating how Russia tried to influence the election. We know from years past they are sore losers - looks like they are even sore winners.

But let's get your take on it. There is now ample evidence that Russia illegally hacked into US servers and tried to sway the election. The FBI, CIA and NSA all agree that they tried to do just that. Should it be investigated? Or should we ignore it and pretend it never happened?
 
Kittamaru said:
The whole WMD thing... unfortunately, we will never know the full truth there; was there ACTUALLY intelligence that they existed... or was that fabricated to give Bouncing Baby Bush a reason to in and finish what his daddy started...
Click to expand...

It's a side issue but my understanding is that what gave Dubbya's administration conviction about WMD was that Rumsfeld was the very man who provided WMD to Saddam in the 1980s, to help him in the Iran-Iraq War. So the arguments was, "We know you've got them because we gave them to you.".
 
exchemist said:
It's a side issue but my understanding is that what gave Dubbya's administration conviction about WMD was that Rumsfeld was the very man who provided WMD to Saddam in the 1980s, to help him in the Iran-Iraq War. So the arguments was, "We know you've got them because we gave them to you.".
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Thing is, that would assume he sat on them for 20+ years and didn't use them... which, I guess, is possible...?
 
Kittamaru said:
Thing is, that would assume he sat on them for 20+ years and didn't use them... which, I guess, is possible...?
Click to expand...
He did use them on several villages. I can't sight the article since it's been years when a I read it. Also, I remember reading news that they were used during the Iraq/Iran war.
 
billvon said:
Oh, he used them against the Iranians - which is what we were hoping for.
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Bowser said:
He did use them on several villages. I can't sight the article since it's been years when a I read it. Also, I remember reading news that they were used during the Iraq/Iran war.
Click to expand...

Which would, I would imagine, mean he no longer had them (or many of them at least)
 
Kittamaru said:
Which would, I would imagine, mean he no longer had them (or many of them at least)
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I don't know. It does come to mind that he acquired them indirectly from the US ( we supplied the means under the guise of agriculture). It's info from many years back when he was an ally of the US.
 
Bowser said:
I don't know. It does come to mind that he acquired them indirectly from the US ( we supplied the means under the guise of agriculture). It's info from many years back when he was an ally of the US.
Click to expand...
It's especially ironic that Trump would seek to undermine the credibility of the CIA by invoking the Bush era intelligence about Iraq, when Trump himself was considering John Bolton for Secretary of State, who may have personally encouraged the falsehood about Iraq's procurement of yellowcake uranium.

Bolton now thinks the accusations of Russian hacking are a false flag operation by Obama.

Once a liar, always a liar.
 
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