crazy things on-line

[DaveC426913]

Yep, just another non sequitur. A term that never applies to any of your posits, which are always completely original.
I learn so much from you, it makes me warm and fuzzy all over.

OK, well you can learn this then: non sequitur means "it does not follow".
As in: The comment you made is not connected to the discussion in-progress. It may well be true, but it does not follow from anything said except superficially.

Like the kid who was asked if he had a great time at Six Flags, whose answer was "I like Turtles!".

I'm simply asking that you 'read the room' and try to constructively participate, instead of exploiting every thread like it's your own personal blog.

 

[Write4U]

OK, well you can learn this then: non sequitur means "it does not follow".

Well, you misread that post as "it does not follow". It certainly was a non fallacious comment in furtherance of trying to establish an approximate date when humans were present in East Asia and crossed over into the Americas.
But there was more to it than a mere comment, when taken in context of all the dates mentioned in associated with first humans appearing in America

Non sequitur may refer to:

• Non sequitur (fallacy), an invalid argument whose conclusion is not supported by its premises
• Non sequitur (literary device), an irrelevant, often humorous comment to a preceding topic or statement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non_sequitur

Look again at the OP title.

 

[DaveC426913]

*sigh* Do I have to report this thread so you don't mangle it with red herrings and non sequiturs?

 

[sculptor]

AFAIK, the ancestors of the American Indians came from the Eastern hemisphere and not from Europe.

You don't seem to have "drunk Stanford's solutrean hypothesis coolaide".

 

[Write4U]

You don't seem to have "drunk Stanford's solutrean hypothesis coolaide".

Paleo-Indians

Traditional theories suggest that big-animal hunters crossed the Bering Strait from North Asia into the Americas over a land bridge (Beringia). This bridge existed from 45,000 to 12,000 BCE (47,000–14,000 BP).[2] Small isolated groups of hunter-gatherers migrated alongside herds of large herbivores far into Alaska. From c. 16,500 – c. 13,500 BCE (c. 18,500 – c. 15,500 BP), ice-free corridors developed along the Pacific coast and valleys of North America.[3] This allowed animals, followed by humans, to migrate south into the interior of the continent. The people went on foot or used boats along the coastline.

The precise dates and routes of the peopling of the Americas remain subjects of ongoing debate.[4] At least two morphologically different Paleo-Indian populations were coexisting in different geographical areas of Mexico 10,000 years ago.[5]

South Asian Stone Age

Guy Ellcock Pilgrim who was a British geologist and palaeontologist, who discovered 1.5 million years (15 lakhs) old prehistoric human teeth and part of a jaw denoting that the ancient people, who were intelligent hominins dating as far back as 1,500,000 ybp Acheulean period,[7] lived in Pinjore region near Chandigarh.[8] Quartzite tools of lower Paleolithic period were excavated in this region extending from Pinjore in Haryana to Nalagarh (Solan district) in Himachal Pradesh.[9]

The coming of Homo sapiens[edit]
Main article: Peopling of India

Analysis of mitochondrial DNA dates the immigration of Homo sapiens to South Asia to 75,000 to 50,000 years ago.[10][11] An analysis of Y chromosome haplogroups found one man in a village west of Madurai to be a direct descendant of these migrators.[12][page needed] Cave sites in Sri Lanka have yielded the earliest non-mitochondrial record of modern Homo sapiens in South Asia. They were dated to 34,000 years ago. (Kennedy 2000: 180). For finds from the Belan in southern Uttar Pradesh, India radiocarbon data have indicated an age of 18,000-17,000 years.

Bhimbetka rock painting, Madhya Pradesh, India.

At the Rock Shelters of Bhimbetka humans lived throughout the Upper Paleolithic (10th to 8th millennia BCE), revealing cave paintings dating to c. 30,000 BCE,[13][14] and there are small cup like depressions at the end of the Auditorium Rock Shelter, which is dated to nearly 100,000 years;[15] the Sivaliks and the Potwar (Pakistan) region also exhibit many vertebrate fossil remains and paleolithic tools. Chert, jasper and quartzite were often used by humans during this period.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asian_Stone_Age

Now if anyone can sort this out I'll bow in respect.

 

[sculptor]

ok
"Traditional theories suggest that big-animal hunters crossed the Bering Strait from North Asia into the Americas over a land bridge (Beringia)"
I never bought into that crap. (and neither should you)
The people ... used boats...
amen to that

"At least two morphologically different Paleo-Indian populations were coexisting in different geographical areas of Mexico 10,000 years ago"
Now, there is a good starting point.

 

[C C]

Paleo-Indians
South Asian Stone Age

The coming of Homo sapiens[edit]
Main article: Peopling of India

Bhimbetka rock painting, Madhya Pradesh, India.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Asian_Stone_Age

Now if anyone can sort this out I'll bow in respect.

Well, going back to those New World "Indians" stated to be here a million or more years ago, in that article of the OP:

After A Cliff Collapsed In The Grand Canyon, Experts Made A Startling Discovery In The Rock
https://magellantimes.com/s/grand-canyon-ancient-secret

EXCERPT: Given the geological activity in the area, though, it may surprise you to hear that people have long had a presence here. At about the same time that the Colorado River carved the deepest parts of the ravine, humans first arrived in this part of Arizona. Then, more than a million years later, the first Europeans peered over the lip into the crevice below. ​

Science supposedly doesn't factor into this, anyway. If institutions are kowtowing to the tralatitious narratives.[1]

Why Is the Society for American Archaeology Promoting Indigenous Creationism?
https://quillette.com/2021/06/13/wh...archaeology-promoting-indigenous-creationism/

EXCERPT: The most expansive interpretations of NAGPRA’s provisions now serve to place Indigenous oral traditions, which typically include religious stories, on equal footing with traditional forms of scientific evidence such as DNA analysis. And NAGPRA’s review committees often contain traditional Indian religious leaders who assist in repatriation decisions. While it is unfashionable to say so, we do not believe that this application of NAGPRA is correct. Contrary to the popular misunderstanding of NAGPRA, human remains and artifacts are not just repatriated to lineal descendants (such as a great-great grandchild), but are often repatriated to those who are deemed culturally affiliated. This kind of link can be established through orally transmitted creation myths that are analogous to what exists in the book of Genesis—tales of the origin of the universe and of people that are based on a series of miraculous events. (In 2007, the Department of the Interior went further by attempting to extend NAGPRA’s provisions to even those remains whose connections are “culturally unidentifiable.”)​

There may be no indigenous heritage stories that specifically state the First Peoples were created a million or more years ago on the continent. But perhaps many feature them being here since either the world or North America was made.

Iroquois: The Iroquois trace the beginning of human life to a time when Skywoman fell to an island created by a giant turtle. The island grew in shape and size and became North America. There, Skywoman gave birth to a daughter whose children propagated the human race.
https://www.indigenouspeople.net/legend.htm​

One of the exceptions would be my own tribe's genesis story, that involves its ancestral members migrating from the west to the east, with nary much about what transpired before then. In contrast to the below, which has the Earth around long before the "Morlocks" transformed into humans.

Tewa/Hopi: Way back in the distant past, the ancestors of humans were living down below in a world under the earth. They weren't humans yet, they lived in darkness, behaving like bugs. Now there was a Great Spirit watching over everything; some people say he was the sun. He saw how things were down under the earth, so he sent his messenger, Spider Old Woman, to talk to them. She said, "You creatures, the Sun Spirit doesn't want you living like this. He is going to transform you into something better, and I will lead you to another world." When they came out on the surface of the earth, that's when they became humans. In the journeys that followed, they were looking for a place of harmony where they could follow good teachings and a good way of life.
https://www.indigenouspeople.net/legend.htm​

- - - footnote - - -

[1] Though surely blood quantum certifications factor somewhere into the legal tangles of repatriations. Which often isn't science, either, but documentation. "No federally recognized tribe enrolls members solely based on DNA testing..."

 

[Write4U]

*sigh* Do I have to report this thread so you don't mangle it with red herrings and non sequiturs?

From no on you will be on permanent "ignore". I've had enough of your petulant, nah petty behavior.

 

[Write4U]

The people ... used boats...
amen to that

I have always maintained that west-African coastal migration introduced humans to Europe and east-African coastal migration was responsible for dispersion eastward into Asia.

There are two very old settlements , one in Morocco (No East-Africa) .

Jebel Irhoud
Middle Paleolithic

The oldest known evidence for anatomically modern humans (as of 2017) are fossils found at Jebel Irhoud, Morocco, dated about 300,000 years old.

and

This skull of Homo erectus georgicus from Dmanisi in modern Georgia (Caucasus) is the earliest evidence for the presence of early humans outside the African continent.

Early hominids[edit]

About 1.8 million years ago, Homo erectus left the African continent.[2] This species, whose name means "upright man", is believed to have lived in East and Southeast Asia from 1.8 million to 40,000 years ago.[3] Their regional distinction is classified as Homo erectus sensu stricto.[4] The females weighed an average of 52 kilograms (115 lb) and were on average 1.5 metres (4.9 ft) tall. The males weighed an average of 58 kilograms (128 lb) and were on average 1.7 metres (5.6 ft) tall. They are believed to have had a vegetarian diet with some meat.[3] They had small brains, when compared to the later Homo sapiens and used simple tools.[2]

The earliest human fossils found outside of Africa are skulls and mandibles of the Asian Homo erectus from
Dmanisi (modern Republic of Georgia) in Caucasus, which is a land corridor that led to North Asia from Africa and Near East or Middle East.

They are approximately 1.8 Ma (Megaannum, or million years) old. Archaeologists have named these fossils Homo erectus georgicus.[2][5][6]

There were also some remains that looked similar to the Homo ergaster, which may mean that there were several species living about that time in Caucasus. Bones of animals found near the human remains included short-necked giraffes, ostriches, ancient rhinoceroses from Africa and saber-toothed tigers and wolves from Eurasia.[2] Tools found with the human fossils include simple stone tools like those used in Africa: a cutting flake, core and a chopper.[2]

The oldest Southeast Asian Homo fossils, known as the Homo erectus Java Man, were found between layers of volcanic debris in Java, Indonesia.[7] Fossils representing 40 Homo erectus individuals, known as Peking Man, were found near Beijing at Zhoukoudian that date to about 400,000 years ago. The species was believed to have lived for at least several hundred thousand years in China,[3] and possibly until 200,000 years ago in Indonesia. They may have been the first to use fire and cook food.[8]

Skulls were found in Java of Homo erectus that dated to about 300,000 years ago.[7] A skull was found in Central China that was similar to the Homo heidelbergensis remains that were found in Europe and Africa and are dated between 200,000 and 50,000 years ago.[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Asia

Homo erectus - A Bigger, Smarter, Faster Hominin Lineage
By: Adam P. Van Arsdale (Department of Anthropology, Wellesley College) © 2013 Nature Education

About two million years ago, a new set of fossils began to appear in the human fossil record. Designated as Homo erectus, they show evidence of increases in both body size and brain size.

Homo erectus is arguably the earliest species in the human lineage to have so many human-like qualities. Earlier hominins had important similarities with living humans, like bipedality, and H. erectus still had a long evolutionary path to become like you and me, but the fossils assigned to H.

Coastal settlements

https://www.nature.com/scitable/knowledge/library/homo-erectus-a-bigger-smarter-97879043/#

IMO, clear evidence of coastal migrations.

 

[Write4U]

Trying to establish the approximate time when the first humans appeared might help in determining when they began migrating .

We do know when the first lines of "humans" split from our common ancestor by the actual chromosome count.
Only humans have 46 chromosomes. All other apes have 48 chromosomes.

Evolution

Do Neanderthal and modern humans have the same number of chromosomes (46 instead of 48 like apes) and if so, has this fact been actually scientifically shown by fossil record or is it speculated by anthropology? Also at what point in time in human evolution it is believed that the fusion of chromosome 2 occurred?
-A curious adult from California, October 30, 2013

As of now we don’t know or have any hard DNA evidence for how many chromosomes Neanderthals had. We are guessing that since humans and Neanderthals probably had babies together that they shared the same number of chromosomes. But this doesn’t necessarily have to be the case.

We also don’t know if they had the specific fusion of the two ancestral chromosomes that led to human chromosome 2. But we actually do have evidence that a different related ancestor, a Denisovan, had the same fusion. So while we don’t know the number of chromosomes these ancient hominids had, we do know they shared this fusion with us.

This tells us that the fusion happened at the very least before humans and Denisovans split apart. It also suggests that Neanderthals had the same fusion because Denisovans and Neanderthals have a common ancestor that split from humans. Here is what the branches look like:

So there was a common ancestor to all three that split into two branches. One branch led to humans and the other led to Neanderthals and Denisovans. Since humans and Denisovans have this fusion, this implies that Neanderthals (and the common ancestor) would too.

Other studies that were done before we had any Neanderthal or Denisovan DNA are also consistent with this. The estimate from these studies is that the fusion happened a bit more than a million years ago. This is well before these three split apart.

From 48 to 46

Humans have 46 chromosomes while our closest living relatives, chimpanzees and bonobos, have 48. As you can see in the image on the right, when we line up human and chimpanzee chromosomes, it is pretty easy to see what happened. Two chromosomes equivalent to two specific chimpanzee chromosomes fused together to create human chromosome 2.

Lining up human and chimpanzee chromosomes makes it obvious that human chromsome 2 is the result of a fusion event from our past.

Being able to sequence one strand without the other opened up the amount of ancient DNA available for sequencing.

.......more
https://genetics.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/denisovan-chromosome-2#

 

[sculptor]

Who were the seafarers who settled Crete 130,000 years ago?
sapiens?
neanderthalensis?
other lineage?