Doing the Numbers on No. 1

[Write4U]

Robert Hazen proves that the earth has an average composition of minerals of a planet in an average solar system throughout the universe.

The point is that bio-chemical molecules already form in cosmic clouds, due to radiation.

Abstract

Astronomical observations have shown that carbonaceous compounds in the gas and solid state, refractory and icy are ubiquitous in our and distant galaxies. Interstellar molecular clouds and circumstellar envelopes are factories of complex molecular synthesis. A surprisingly large number of molecules that are used in contemporary biochemistry on Earth are found in the interstellar medium, planetary atmospheres and surfaces, comets, asteroids and meteorites, and interplanetary dust particles.

In this article we review the current knowledge of abundant organic material in different space environments and investigate the connection between presolar and solar system material, based on observations of interstellar dust and gas, cometary volatiles, simulation experiments, and the analysis of extraterrestrial matter. Current challenges in astrochemistry are discussed and future research directions are proposed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2982172/

 

[nebel]

"--A surprisingly large number of molecules that are used in contemporary biochemistry on Earth --"

w4y: despite that prevalence, we have struggled to replicate abiogenesis. but I am not arguing life as such here, but the unique architecture of the solar system,
That we, as conscious beings are aware of it, can ascribe our existence 's dependence to it, just makes these ratios more fascinating, like an artful decoration on an utilitarian item.

 

[Write4U]

"--A surprisingly large number of molecules that are used in contemporary biochemistry on Earth --"

w4y: despite that prevalence, we have struggled to replicate abiogenesis. but I am not arguing life as such here, but the unique architecture of the solar system,
That we, as conscious beings are aware of it, can ascribe our existence 's dependence to it, just makes these ratios more fascinating, like an artful decoration on an utilitarian item.

Yes, but you must consider the settings.
The entire Universe had 13.5 billion years to test an near infinite number of chemical interactions. Compare this to 5 guys in a laboratory performing one experiment at a time. It might take them 13.5 billion years to hit on the right formula.

But as we now are doing serious studies at the nano-level we may be able to solve the problem of self-replicating polymerizations.

We have a few, the Krebs cycle is one of them.

Citric acid cycle


Overview of the citric acid cycle

The citric acid cycle (CAC) – also known as the TCA cycle (tricarboxylic acid cycle) or the Krebs cycle[1][2] – is a series of chemical reactions used by all aerobic organisms to release stored energy through the oxidation of acetyl-CoA derived from carbohydrates, fats, and proteins. In addition, the cycle provides precursors of certain amino acids, as well as the reducing agent NADH, that are used in numerous other reactions. Its central importance to many biochemical pathways suggests that it was one of the earliest components of metabolism and may have originated abiogenically.[3][4]

Even though it is branded as a 'cycle', it is not necessary for metabolites to follow only one specific route; at least three segments of the citric acid cycle have been recognized.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid_cycle

What a lot of people seem to overlook is that the universe is one dynamic laboratory, Everything we see today is a result of evolutionary processes since the chaotic beginnings.

 

[nebel]

Everything we see today is a result of evolutionary processes since the chaotic beginnings.

and out of chaos rises order again, order that is needed to have the long term stability for complicated life to thrive, and the numbers are just the tip if the iceberg showing that.
The numbers (particularly 10 in Titius Bode) reflect order, the opposite of entropy.

 

[nebel]

One might as well marvel at the fact the acceleration due to gravity is exactly 1 g! I mean, what are the chances of that?

using ballpark figures, (within 8%) looking at Saturn's 10s:
~10 times further than the Earth's 1.0 AU from the Sun, a
~10 hour day, ( the golden ratio to ours, the 1:1,6 ratio shared with Jupiter ) a
~10 m/s^2 "surface" gravity acceleration, ( close to ours) a
~10 km/sec orbital velocity a
~10 km/sec rotational velocity at equator,
numerology, coincidences, non scientific artwork at its best. 1-1 20 21.

 

[exchemist]

using ballpark figures, (within 8%) looking at Saturn's 10s:
~10 times further than the Earth's 1.0 AU from the Sun, a
~10 hour day, ( the golden ratio to ours, shared with Jupiter ) a
~10 m/s^2 "surface" gravity acceleration, ( close to ours) a
~10 km/sec orbital velocity a
~10 km/sec rotational velocity at equator,
numerology, coincidences, non scientific artwork at its best. 1-1 20 21.

You are replying to a post from two years ago, Grandad.

Nobody cares about this any more, least of all me.

 

[Write4U]

using ballpark figures, (within 8%) looking at Saturn's 10s:
~10 times further than the Earth's 1.0 AU from the Sun, a
~10 hour day, ( the golden ratio to ours, the 1:1,6 ratio shared with Jupiter ) a
~10 m/s^2 "surface" gravity acceleration, ( close to ours) a
~10 km/sec orbital velocity a
~10 km/sec rotational velocity at equator, numerology, coincidences, non scientific artwork at its best. 1-1 20 21.

Don't forget, human symbolic numbers are purely arbitrary human inventions. The universe does not recognize symbolic numbers, it recognizes "values" and "orderly (mathematical) functions".

Physical universal patterns are ordered in accordance to their inherent values and they behave and interact in accordance to their functional mathematical relationships, such as in (human symbolic) "equations".

The remarkable thing is that we have discovered those hidden relationships between values and fashioned our numerical symbols and mathematical functions accordingly.

Which led us to the discovery of universal constants and laws. These constant relationships of values is what makes mathematics so efficient and reliable and what makes the universe predictable.

What we tend to forget is that many animals also have a sense of values and can recognize the difference between "more" from "less" as easily as humans, even as they know nothing of numbers.

 

[nebel]

Don't forget, human symbolic numbers are purely arbitrary human inventions.

WFY: thank you, very true, but many of these numbers represent ratios, independent of what unit, "watch", "cubit" nanometer , or millisecond you apply. particularly if it shows Fibonacci, all well established before my measly 9 decades.

 

[Write4U]

WFY: thank you, very true, but many of these numbers represent ratios, independent of what unit, "watch", "cubit" nanometer , or millisecond you apply. particularly if it shows Fibonacci, all well established before my measly 9 decades.

The Famous Fibonacci

Often called ‘Nature’s Universal Rule’, the Fibonacci sequence is perhaps one of the most famous mathematical sequences. The origin of this sequence is much contested, although it is commonly attributed to the Italian mathematician Leonardo Fibonacci. In his famous work ‘Liber Abaci’, he introduced a hypothetical problem involving rabbits and employed the sequence to find the number of rabbits after a certain period of time.

I would edit this statement to read "the discovery" (not origin) is much contested. IMO, its origin was closer to the beginning of the first spiral galaxy.

In this sequence, each number is the sum of the two numbers that precede it. Take a look:
0….1….1….2….3….5….8….13….21….34.......

Something strange happens when the sequence approaches infinity. The ratio between two consecutive numbers converges to 1.61803… : ‘phi’, or as you might call it, the ‘golden ratio’.

Fibonacci Sequence in Nature

The Fibonacci sequence can be observed in a stunning variety of phenomena in nature.
The total number of petals of a flower is often a number present in the Fibonacci sequence, as with irises and lilies. Most pineapples have either five, eight, thirteen or twenty-one spirals; these are also Fibonacci numbers.

Similarly, consider the arrangement of seeds in the center of a sunflower. If you count the spirals present, once again, it is a number present in the Fibonacci sequence. If you categorize these spirals into those pointed left and right, you will get two consecutive Fibonacci numbers.

• 
  
  Seeds in a sunflower head. The number of spirals pointed left and right are consecutive numbers in the Fibonacci sequence.
  Photo Credits: Pixabay.com

An Evolutionary Perspective

Nature is not an entity that consciously follows mathematics (flowers are not the smartest.) Instead, it is mathematics that follows nature.

The golden ratio models nature’s way of packing things in the most effective and energy-efficient way. In the case of the sunflower head, and many other species, their arrangement represents the ideal packing of the seeds; there is no crowding in the center and no scarcity on the edges of the head. Similarly, by having a certain number of petals at a certain angle to each other, the flower ensures that each leaf receives an abundant amount of sunlight.

It reflects the conclusion of evolution over millions of years, that for a particular species, this is the optimal arrangement of things. The Fibonacci sequence is just one simple example of the resilient and persevering quality of nature.

The beauty of inherent mathematics in "natural selection" for survival strategies and mechanisms.

As we continue to scourge for mathematical patterns in our natural world, our understanding of our universe expands, and the beauty of nature becomes clearer to our human eyes.

https://spectramagazine.org/mathematics/the-fibonacci-sequence-in-nature/

 

[nebel]

Nobody cares about this any more, least of all me.

These are facts that go back a long way, and interest ia still strong, ( hunderts of views in the last hours) perhaps due to your past inputs, thank you.
please Falsify the five 1/10 ratios of terra/saturn.

 

[exchemist]

These are facts that go back a long way, and interest ia still strong, ( hunderts of views in the last hours) perhaps due to your past inputs, thank you.
please Falsify the five 1/10 ratios of terra/saturn.

You must be joking. I have taken no interest in this nonsense thread for the last 2 years - and by the look of it, it's only got worse since then.

 

[DaveC426913]

using ballpark figures, (within 8%) looking at Saturn's 10s:
~10 times further than the Earth's 1.0 AU from the Sun, a
~10 hour day, ( the golden ratio to ours, the 1:1,6 ratio shared with Jupiter ) a
~10 m/s^2 "surface" gravity acceleration, ( close to ours) a
~10 km/sec orbital velocity a
~10 km/sec rotational velocity at equator,
numerology, coincidences, non scientific artwork at its best. 1-1 20 21.

This is adorable.

With an 8% margin of error, one can connect whatever one wants until the cows come home. This doesn't even qualify as numerology.

And W4U is correct. It is entirely dependent on one's choice of man-made units.
Notice: these coincidences simply don't exist in America.

 

[nebel]

i forgot to mention: #6, Saturn's diameter is
10 times that of Earth, within a 6% margin , # 7, Saturn' mass is
10^2 times that we live on here. with 5% margin.
should make it just 10% to keep it simple. not counting the obvious corollary like 1/10^2 or solar energy input.

With an 8% margin of error, one can connect whatever one wants

no you cant Dave, but yes, with the 90% outside of the 10 % margin iit would be easier.

If you looked at many science situations, you will find the data clustered 5 % above or below = within 10% of the average values predicted, shown by the lines of the graphs.

 

[Write4U]

If you looked at many science situations, you will find the data clustered 5 % above or below = within 10% of the average values predicted, shown by the lines of the graphs.

There is nothing unusual for similar physical patterns and constituent parts to show mathematical relationships . As you observed the Fibonacci Sequence is ubiquitous throughout the universe.

Universal laws and constants are founded on mathematical similarities, not differences. That is why we can use mathematics to examine physical properties at almost unlimited sizes.

 

[river]

There is nothing unusual for similar physical patterns and constituent parts to show mathematical relationships . As you observed the Fibonacci Sequence is ubiquitous throughout the universe.

Universal laws and constants are founded on mathematical similarities, not differences. That is why we can use mathematics to examine physical properties at almost unlimited sizes.

Without Patterns , Physical Objects could not exist . The Patterns themselves Being Physical .

 

[river]

The Periodic Table was founded on patterns of real physical objects .

And their other characteristics . In combination .

Hence

Elements .

 

[nebel]

Fibonacci Sequence is ubiquitous throughout the universe.

WFY: true, but I discovered going over the numbers that the Day's ratio is at best tenuous. sorry.

Without Patterns , Physical Objects could not exist . The Patterns themselves Being Physical

R: yes but I fail to see haw 14 10s , particularly in the so called Bode sequence fit in with that. it could have been otherwise and probably is in other planetary systems. they would have to, if the Masses have different proper pulsations, Eigenschwingungen.

 

[Write4U]

WFY: true, but I discovered going over the numbers that the Day's ratio is at best tenuous. sorry.

Who is .....? Day? Regardless, many numbers are "approximate" (remember "leap year). The term "approximate" usually indicates a close guess.....

R: yes but I fail to see haw 14 10s , particularly in the so called Bode sequence fit in with that. it could have been otherwise and probably is in other planetary systems. they would have to, if the Masses have different proper pulsations, Eigenschwingungen.

OK, maybe this explains.

Bode’s law, also called Titius-Bode law, empirical rule giving the approximate distances of planets from the Sun.

note the qualification "approximate". It's a close guess.....

 

[nebel]

note the qualification "approximate". It's a close guess

wfy: the "bode" sequence, which in my opinion is the most striking feature, of the 10 saga, is not that approximate, au contraire,
The most important, Jupiter the biggie and us , with life on it, are within 1/2 percent of the theoretical value.
The big outlier is Neptune, which is equidistant from Uranus and Pluto, which means the sequence, a geometric procession with doubling orbit diameters differences, has an upper limit of 9,6 AU. The Saturn to Uranus to Neptune to Pluto spacing.
It is a resonance thing.

 

[nebel]

You must be joking. I have taken no interest in this nonsense thread for the last 2 years - and by the look of it, it's only got worse since then.

true, sorry, but here is another truly useless link between numbers:
10 times the distance of Sun to Jupiter in AU, is (5.2) or it's number in the bode sequence 52, and that is also
the ~ number of our weeks in a year here.